What makes a Zoner? (Spoiler Alert)

[Danzello]

Spoiler alert: in this discussion talks about a unlockable character.

Orcane, we all agreed that he is a zoner. Yet, I don't understand why. My definition of a zoner is a character who uses long range moves like projectiles and big hitboxes to attack people at a distance and keep opponents away from his space. Now the space can be anywhere it could be just your hurt box or it can a be a turf that you claimed (e.g. Orcane's puddle). Ok so what options does Orcane have that are considered zoning, the ones that I know are:

• Puddle shot
  
• Puddle Explosion
  
• Risky Puddle teleport
  
• Fair
  
• Buffed Strong Attacks

Ok great Orcane has a lot options for zoning, yet what is Orcane better at... dash attack, d-tilt, up-tilt, neutral air, up air (THAT KILLS), back air (ALSO KILLS), running up to people. And people do this more than those zoning options. I mean I know zoners usually have decent melee attacks in order to get people off of them, but the Orcanes I see run up to people and be aggressive.

Meanwhile Absa has:

• Cloud shot
  
• Mini cloud burst
  
• Big chain lightning burst
  
• Super long side-tilt
  
• Down-b with a cloud
  
• Down-b without a cloud

So maybe Absa has one extra option, but still when people play Orcane they use aggression over zoning.

Do you agree or disagree? Also if my definition of Zoning is wrong, please tell me.

[Sunday School Stinker]

There's kind of two different variations of the word Zoner.

One is the term that you described, another is an FG term that describes a tactic of controlling the space between you and the opponent. Zoners in general play defensively which is in this case. Absa.

Orcane is a more aggressive zoner because he's got good jab-cancel combos out of dash attack.

[Terotrous]

Smash has very few "true" zoners in the sense that their optimal strategy is to be as far away as possible at all times, rather a smash zoner is usually a character who fights at distance most of the time, then comes in for a kill at key moments before returning to the long-range game. This is generally the playstyle for both Orcane and Absa. They both can fight up close, but are greatly outclassed by characters like Forsburn and Maypul at it, they use their long-range game to make up for it.

There are also some hybrid zoner characters who are able to effectively switch between range and up-close fighting, without being especially lacking at either, though their zoning isn't usually quite as strong. Zetterburn is such a character.

[Danzello]

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Smash has very few "true" zoners in the sense that their optimal strategy is to be as far away as possible at all times, rather a smash zoner is usually a character who fights at distance most of the time, then comes in for a kill at key moments before returning to the long-range game. This is generally the playstyle for both Orcane and Absa. They both can fight up close, but are greatly outclassed by characters like Forsburn and Maypul at it, they use their long-range game to make up for it.

There are also some hybrid zoner characters who are able to effectively switch between range and up-close fighting, without being especially lacking at either, though their zoning isn't usually quite as strong. Zetterburn is such a character.

But Orcane fights up close all the time, because his projectile has not that much mobility, he cant use it to camp out his opponents. So it instead acts like a trap, if you hit someone into the puddle you can detonate the puddle and start/extend a combo, so like Lord Hater said he is a aggressive zoner, because he incorporates his projectiles and traps into his combos.

As for Absa I agree with you there. She definitely has the capability to camp out her opponent with her side tilt and clouds, and she has difficulty with being pressured.

[Terotrous]

You can definitely at least kinda camp with the puddle and Orcane's Fair on some levels. Not necessarily for a really long time, but you can force the opponent to try to get around it and then punish them for doing so.

[WildHodag]

Originally posted by Lord Hater:

There's kind of two different variations of the word Zoner.

One is the term that you described, another is an FG term that describes a tactic of controlling the space between you and the opponent. Zoners in general play defensively which is in this case. Absa.

Orcane is a more aggressive zoner because he's got good jab-cancel combos out of dash attack.

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Smash has very few "true" zoners in the sense that their optimal strategy is to be as far away as possible at all times, rather a smash zoner is usually a character who fights at distance most of the time, then comes in for a kill at key moments before returning to the long-range game. This is generally the playstyle for both Orcane and Absa. They both can fight up close, but are greatly outclassed by characters like Forsburn and Maypul at it, they use their long-range game to make up for it.

There are also some hybrid zoner characters who are able to effectively switch between range and up-close fighting, without being especially lacking at either, though their zoning isn't usually quite as strong. Zetterburn is such a character.

I agree.

In many guides I've heard for Sm4sh Marth consider him a bit of a zoner. Marth's range help him control the space between him and the opponent even if they are still close. This is an example of what a zoner can potentialy be in Sm4sh. Orcane isn't truly a Full Time zoner.

This game isn't smash. So characters might be considered a zoner in this game but this game also really favors offensive playstyles. So they might be a zoner but they'll have some abilities to rush people down. They will get outclassed against some characters if they attempt this all the time.

Absa is probably going to be unique because of this. She will be much more of a zoner than Orcane. Orcane is an alternative Zoner that has more rush down options than Absa.

Do you agree with this?

[Danzello]

Originally posted by Zeedy:

Originally posted by Lord Hater:

There's kind of two different variations of the word Zoner.

One is the term that you described, another is an FG term that describes a tactic of controlling the space between you and the opponent. Zoners in general play defensively which is in this case. Absa.

Orcane is a more aggressive zoner because he's got good jab-cancel combos out of dash attack.

Originally posted by Terotrous:

Smash has very few "true" zoners in the sense that their optimal strategy is to be as far away as possible at all times, rather a smash zoner is usually a character who fights at distance most of the time, then comes in for a kill at key moments before returning to the long-range game. This is generally the playstyle for both Orcane and Absa. They both can fight up close, but are greatly outclassed by characters like Forsburn and Maypul at it, they use their long-range game to make up for it.

There are also some hybrid zoner characters who are able to effectively switch between range and up-close fighting, without being especially lacking at either, though their zoning isn't usually quite as strong. Zetterburn is such a character.

I agree.

In many guides I've heard for Sm4sh Marth consider him a bit of a zoner. Marth's range help him control the space between him and the opponent even if they are still close. This is an example of what a zoner can potentialy be in Sm4sh. Orcane isn't truly a Full Time zoner.

This game isn't smash. So characters might be considered a zoner in this game but this game also really favors offensive playstyles. So they might be a zoner but they'll have some abilities to rush people down. They will get outclassed against some characters if they attempt this all the time.

Absa is probably going to be unique because of this. She will be much more of a zoner than Orcane. Orcane is an alternative Zoner that has more rush down options than Absa.

Do you agree with this?

Oh yes I do, so at first I thought that all characters have stage control abilities, but now every character has rush capabilities.

[Terotrous]

Originally posted by Zeedy:

Absa is probably going to be unique because of this. She will be much more of a zoner than Orcane. Orcane is an alternative Zoner that has more rush down options than Absa.

Do you agree with this?

It's hard to say because we haven't gotten our hands on Absa yet, but from what we've seen it definitely looks like she is the closest to a pure zoner in the cast. She does have some combo potential but she generally relies on getting you into those situations through stage control (ie, forcing you to commit to a suboptimal move and then punishing) rather than by going in.