Counters brings nothing, but frustration in the game. This is why ROA will never be better than melee.

[W1ne-Ton Hammer]

I'm not the best melee player, but i can always learn how to be good. With that said, i don't complain when i lose, i try to get better. When a seasoned player kicks my ♥♥♥ 4-0 in melee, i ask him for some advice or i learn from him and i learn from my mistakes.
In the end, i go from getting 4-0'd to winning the game eventually.

In rivals of Aethus, i like to improve myself, but the counter system has to be the most frustrating thing ever. When you put me in a position where i can absolutely do nothing at all, but embracing death, i just don't want to bother with it anymore.

ROA is a skillful game, but something that can hold you still for a second ruins the flow of the game completely.
In melee, i must learn how to be fast, how to predict, how to defend myself. In the end, i don't lose speed at all since as i improve, i can only go faster.
In ROA, i'm fast, i can predict and i can dodge, wave dash at the right time to perform a counter-attack(an actual counter).
I lose because i'm too fast. If i strike too soon, my opponent will perform the counter and that will take away one of my life-stock. I'm sorry, but this is not fun, it's only frustrating. In order to improve, i must slow down that means.

The counter system has to change. Instead of a stun effect from League of Legend, we can have a knock-back effect instead, something strong enough to send your opponent out of the ring, but weak enough to never kill. Now, if you're very good, you can proceed to kill your opponent off-stage.

Anyway, as it is now, i rather go play smash 4 than ROA.

In that order, Melee - smash 4- ROA.

[W1ne-Ton Hammer]

Originally posted by 美玲:

If you have a problem with getting parried, try not getting parried. It's pretty simple actually.

Here's the thing tho, it will happen anyway. It's not like pro gamers don't get parried. When it happen, they die.

The counter of marth in melee doesnt really kill, but if it can get you off stage, it will give marth a moment to make sure you stay off-stage and die. That's more skillful.

[Ball0fLight]

IsaI quote lol

[W1ne-Ton Hammer]

Originally posted by 美玲:

Originally posted by W1ne-Ton Hammer:

Here's the thing tho, it will happens in pro games anyway. It's not like pro gamers don't get parried. When it happen, they die.

The counter of marth in melee doesnt really kill, but if it can get you off stage, it will give marth a moment to make sure you stay off-stage and die. That's more skillful.

There are several ways to avoid getting parried alongside baiting parries. If you get killed because of a parry, you probably got hit beforehand. Don't get hit.

In this video, you can see one of them losing a stock at 2:05 because of a succesful parry and an other that way at the end of the first game. To see it end that way feels ''meh''.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT9ZcowA2AI

Also, the risk is safer than the reward. It's not like marth's counter where the reward is weaker and harder to get than the risk to get smashed.

In ROA, when you miss a counter, the window to recover is thin. In fact, you can attempt a double parry so if you're not quick enough or a little too late, it's better not to take that opportunity.
When you perform a succesful counter and your opponent is at kill percent, you will stay stunned long enough to take a charge attack.
Some characters can perform strong attacks with no delay like that Bird. So even on a short opportunity to kill an oppoenent on a miss counter, he can easily perform a (Up+special) to kill you easy.

...

So i'm not here to learn anything, i'm just here to say that it's frustrating to die because you lost control for a whole second. In my forum community (a darkfall forum mmorpg) where most ppl play smash melee too, i can't even talk about ROA without me being laughed at because in my community, they hate the ROA's counter system totally.
I'm talking about seasoned fox users here.

Now, i know, in melee, there's several actions that makes you become enable to move, but those are nothing, but broken mechanism like the Chain-grab and falco's and the ice climbers ultimate, but that's what they are, broken mechanism that only a few character can perform.
It's frustrating to fight an Ice-Climber, but even if you can chose to be more careful and win against them, you can't say it's fun when you get cauth and if every single character had that infinite grapple, i bet you that melee would be a dead game right now.

[W1ne-Ton Hammer]

I've seen double parry in competitive games so how am i wrong bro? How?

I will take that as a sarcasm. You can punish in every games. Punishing your opponent on a 1 full second delay is bad, that's what i said basically. It`s not skill-ful.

If every character would be able to wobble a player to death, most ppl would retire from smash to play project M which would most-likely fix the wobble anyway. If not, smash 4.
I see ppl literally leaving the room when they see the wobble effect or they rage and those guys are not even playing, they're spectators raging and leaving actually.
If you can get killed from 0% from a grapple with anyone, melee wouldnt be melee, it would be wobble-smash.
So it's hard to assume that ppl would accept that and not complain.

[Calamity Heart]

Personally, I don't think ROA should be changed to cater more to Melee players. ROA clearly isn't Melee, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

ROA is a game that pretty much revolves around playing carefully, not playing fast. Whiff lag, parries, lack of ledges+exploitable/predictable recoveries... There's a clear message there. Don't screw up, or you will be punished for it. Your technique has to be precise, and you have to avoid making mistakes as much as possible, because the game (and your opponent) sure as hell isn't going to forgive you for them.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the parry system. It ties in with everything else the game does to slow/weigh you down when you mess up. Comparing it to wobbling is just laughable, though. If there was a character that could -extend- a parry while also dealing some amount of damage to an opponent ad infinitum, you'd have a point, but there's nothing even close to that abusable in ROA.

Again, ROA is not Melee, and it's not trying to be better than Melee. If playing carefully prevents the game from being fun, maybe ROA just isn't the game for you. I don't see parrying being changed anytime soon.

[Ball0fLight]

This is getting out of hand....

[Ball0fLight]

Admittedly that does happen from time to time, most disscussions tend to have some use/inforation.

[Zorag]

In RoA, it's not all about speed as in Melee, the Parry system is effectively a replacement for Shielding, and i kinda like it, as it allows oyu to unish people and force others to give you soem space, but you can't always use it, or simply hold it down, and hope for good results.

If yo useem to find people parrying you a lot, it's usually because either you are trying to combo too hard when they have an opening, you are being somewhat predictable and they get a read, or in general they just got in a nice parry.

If you find yourself getting parried a lot in a match, it is generally either a gap in skill or that you are being a bit predictable, try to predict their parries, and you will get much better.

[Ball0fLight]

Well said.

[Dee]

"This is why ROA will never be better than melee" Lmao oh my lord dude its not trying to be better or worse than Melee, I dont even think its trying to be Melee. Its a Brawler similar to smash but its mostly its own game. It is inspired or whatever. But trying to lodge this into "being smash" is something i dont think should be done. If youre talking about that you like Melee better thats fine. I prefer RoA due to the raw agression. Preference is fine and talking about what you do and dont like is fine just dont try to hamfist your opinon by insulting the game. "This is why ROA will never be better than melee" Pure frustration right there my dude

[W1ne-Ton Hammer]

Originally posted by LiquidSquid:

"This is why ROA will never be better than melee" Lmao oh my lord dude its not trying to be better or worse than Melee, I dont even think its trying to be Melee. Its a Brawler similar to smash but its mostly its own game. It is inspired or whatever. But trying to lodge this into "being smash" is something i dont think should be done. If youre talking about that you like Melee better thats fine. I prefer RoA due to the raw agression. Preference is fine and talking about what you do and dont like is fine just dont try to hamfist your opinon by insulting the game. "This is why ROA will never be better than melee" Pure frustration right there my dude

If you read me right, you would know that what i'm saying is, i would think ROA would be better than melee with a less OP Parry-stun. An alternative for the stun effect is all i want. A simple knock-back like Marth's counter is the best alternative i can think of. Then, if you're good enough, finish him off while your opponent is off-stage.

My idea takes even more skills than charging a smash or Up+B as the bird.

[W1ne-Ton Hammer]

Originally posted by 美玲:

Originally posted by W1ne-Ton Hammer:

If you read me right, you would know that what i'm saying is, i would think ROA would be better than melee with a less OP Parry-stun. An alternative for the stun effect is all i want. A simple knock-back like Marth's counter is the best alternative i can think of. Then, if you're good enough, finish him off while your opponent is off-stage.

My idea takes even more skills than charging a smash or Up+B as the bird.

if you get parried, you deserve to be punished. you don't HAVE to completely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ force your opinion on everyone.

You mention punished as if there's no other way. You don't have to agree with me, but you don't have to argue if you're not bringing anything meaningful.

Like i said, there's punishment in every games and everything, not just gaming. So you deserve to get punished for anything.

I can only assume that to you, getting punished means death and only death. It can`t be something more minor

[HighLanderPony]

This game needs to be more accessible if anything. For me, anyway.

[J]

Rivals will never be balanced. It's just a fact of life at this point that they don't listen to anyone. Still a fun game, but Brawlhalla is going to take its place as the new 'Smash-like game'.

[Ball0fLight]

We'll see.....

Also, W1ne, the bird has a name

It's Wraster.