In what way is this game balanced?

[Techno Brownie]

Thiss isnt a rant or anything (Atleast I dont think it is) but when I look online for a tier list everyone says this game is balanced so there really isnt one. I wanna know how so. Does everyone have such minor diffrences in stats outside of move lists that everyone is equaly viable? Or is it balances because each charater can break the game using wavedashing and... Alright fine. This is a minor major gripe about wavedashing. Every now and again I get nights where everyon and there babys uncle is wavedashing and it just spins my head around. Even when I (rarely) beat them with no contest its like im playing catch up the entire match.

But realy. With and without wavedashing, how is the game ballanced? Do ceartan fighters have a clear weakness (like megaman)? Does stage selection play a roll or is it personal preffrence?

[d𝕪ke.science]

One of the main reasons this game is so balanced is because of the small roster. Having less charecters makes it easier to keep everyone viable. Another reason the game is fairly balanced is because of it's constant support of the developers. They continuously update and tweek charecters so that one is not way above the others. If you are looking to find who is considered top tier, most people would consider etelus the best, and he has the most high placings in tournies. Most charecters do have weeknesses, but i do not know all of them.

[[JRE] Joe Rogan]

Originally posted by Twist:

One of the main reasons this game is so balanced is because of the small roster. Having less charecters makes it easier to keep everyone viable. Another reason the game is fairly balanced is because of it's constant support of the developers. They continuously update and tweek charecters so that one is not way above the others. If you are looking to find who is considered top tier, most people would consider etelus the best, and he has the most high placings in tournies. Most charecters do have weeknesses, but i do not know all of them.

The game is not balanced, the DLC characters are without a doubt on a much higher echelon than the rest of the cast with maybe Kragg and Etalus competing as well. I always read how this game is balanced yet literally all I play is the DLC characters for about 70% of my matches, it's frustrating.

I'm not forking over money just to compete, ♥♥♥♥ this game TBH. Glad Smash Ultimate is coming out, this game is kind of a joke. The beginner characters in this game are all terrible compared to the DLC characters TBH and that's not a good thing for new players. 30 Hrs into this game I made it to 1198 rank, but I can't be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ to try anymore with how bad MUs like Zetterburn vs Clairen are, it's just so ridiculous and the game isn't even that good enough to learn or be invested in. When I saw such a disillusioned fanbase about this game's balance I knew it's not even worth it, nothing's going to change with the developers as long as they have a fanbase that won't be critical about some of the design decision in this game.

Later.

[N'wah]

Cake assault has been destroying with Forsburn for a while. Zetterburn has had consistent good results. MSB top 8's with Kragg all the time. Wrastor is in a bit a downstream but Windows usually does really well with him. Maypul is definetly the hardest to figure out but the speed and pressure is unmatched by other chracters. Orcane and absa get the least representation imo but that doesn't make them unvialble. Look at Falco in SSBM. Considered the 2nd or 3rd best character in the game but nobody at the top really plays them. This game has better characters and worse ones. But the difference between them isn't big enough to consider the game as unbalanced. It just means you might have to work a little bit harder in some matchups. Also keep in mind that the more people there are who play top tiers, the less expierence those players have fighting other characters. Absa is janky and super weird. Very hard to fight if you don't know what to expect.

There are also a lot of people playing the dlc chracters because they think they are more fun. That's down to preference. As for how wavedashing comes into the balance of the game. Wavedashing isn't that much faster than regular running even when you are frame perfect. You can do a lot of moves out of a run in this game and turning around after a run is pretty fast even if you have exceded your dash range. Wavedashing is mostly a spacing tool on top of helping platform movement. It tends to be better on characters with good zoning tools but is still extremely useful for everyone once you get to that level. Most people kind of just wavedash for the sake of it. I woulnd't worry about it too much right now. And if you really don't like it play wrastor/absa. It's worse on them :)

[Toxi The Vagrant]

I guess I can list some strengths and weaknesses (Though Porkachu hit a lot of nails on the head) (Gimmicks are names I made up to suit their gimmick style)

Zetterburn:
Gimmick: "Burn Bright"
Pros:
+Best at dealing a very large amount of damage in a hurry
+Very average build with no particularly extreme advantages played casually
Cons:
-His gimmick gives people the chance to DI out of kills, and can be turned against him
-Is an honest character where everyone else can and does benefit from dishonest uses of their gimmicks
-Probably the worst in high level, as he can be penalized by the parry system more than almost everyone else

Forsburn:
Gimmick: "Smoke and Dagger"
Pros:
+Best in the game for mindgames, especially if you can keep track of him in his smoke
+Decent melee range, has a VERY large disjoint for the stage one strong attacks for side and up
+Can trade stealth for combat power
Cons
-you can lose track of him in his smoke
-under most circumstances, has bad kill power, and has a very hard time getting a raw strong attack anyway
-Lackluster recovery in a lot of situations

Clairen:
Gimmick: "Plasma Cutter"
Pros:
+one of the Longest normal reaches in the game, with very large disjoints, and a LOT of power with her tipper
+Can combo kill moves into kill moves with Tipper
+CAN fight if someone gets past the tipper, almost just as fearsomely
+Counter literally creates a "no fun allowed" zone that neither projectiles or gimmicks can pass through unless applied directly to character
Cons:
-lackluster kill power without tipper
-demands understanding of spacing
-opponents can easily DI tippers
-counter is DISABLED until the No fun Allowed zone is gone
-a parried tipper strong attack is a death sentence

Kragg
Gimmick: "The Wall"
Pros:
+Massive threat bubble in four directions
+Argued to be the hardest hitter in the game
+Can take a heck of a hit
+Has a super dangerous two stage projectile
Cons:
-slow
-big body, easy target
-heavily penalized by parry
-his projectile can be just as threatening to HIM

Maypul
Gimmick: "Watcher"
Pros:
+Fastest character in the game
+Gimmick gives several frames of straight up advantage used right
+Good combo game
Cons:
-ultra light
-lackluster recovery, even with gimmick used right
-kills can often require two uses of strong attack
-no way to force her to not activate gimmick, to my knowledge

Sylvanos
Gimmick: "Lord of the Wild Earth"
Pros:
+Enormous, ARENA CONSUMING threat bubble that's active as long as he touches the ground
+Copiously large and strong disjointed hitboxes
+Can take a hit
Cons:
-WILL TAKE HITS
-threat bubble shrinks after leaving the ground for more than one second
-recovery is good on paper, in practice, it's hard to tell where you're going to actually land

Orcane:
Gimmick: "puddle player"
+Strong mindgames with puddle
+Huge strong attack range with puddle
+Unapproachable head on if puddle is between opponent and Orcane
+Strongest recovery in the game with puddle
Cons:
-extreme reliance on puddle
-extremely penalized by parry
-recovery with puddle can be predicted
-basically can't recover without puddle

Etalus:
Gimmick: "Ship sinker"
Pros:
+Extremely heavy hitter
+Can take heavy hits
+Is VERY fast on ice
+There literally isn't such a thing as a time where Etalus is in an advantage state where he CAN'T find a way to kill you
Cons:
-HUGE.
-needs ice to be fast
-super penalizing to be parried
-neutral IS disadvantaged

Ranno:
Gimmick: "Predatorial poison"
Pros:
+Good reach
+Good mobility
+Ultra punishing gimmick
+Once in advantage, is rather hard to reset for most characters
Cons:
-gimmick is fairly tough TO apply sometimes
-good mobility offset by the weirdness of how it is good
-parry punishes him hard, too
-recovery isn't very useful unless as an offense tool

Wrastor:
Gimmick: "Bird of Prey"
Pros:
+Can strong attack in the air!
+Good high priority projectile that leaves an area that buffs mobility
+Incredible air mobility
+If you don't kill him outright, he's basically coming back
Cons:
-can ONLY strong attack in the air
-projectile leaves a mobility buffing Jetstream, but as long as it's up, Wrastor can't throw out another projectile
-EXTREMELY LIGHT
-whiffing an aerial strong leaves him wide open when he lands

Absa:
Gimmick: "Tactical storm"
Pros:
+Shares longest projectile range of any character
+Good air mobility
+Has good kill potential on several aerials
+Gimmick can leave large areas of stage hazardous to even be around
Cons:
-argued to be lighter than Wrastor
-glass cannon
-Is a precision character
-without projectiles, shortest reach of any character

Elliana:
Gimmick: "Air Raider"
Pros:
+Shares longest projectile range of any character
+Massive threat bubble
+If not killed outright, she WILL come back
+With the right setups has a disturbingly easy time killing
Cons:
-parries hit her harder than almost any character, while she can circumvent it sometimes, there's a trade associated
-her aerial mobility and her combat prowess are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE a lot of the time due to her overheat meter
-she has a hitbox just shy of Etalus' in size, but not the weight to compensate
-HAS to set up for reliable kills

Ori & Sein
Gimmick: "Light of Fire"
Pros:
+Very high mobility
+WILL come back if not killed outright
+Good mindgames
+a nice projectile
+High stage control
Cons:
-Very light, Glass cannon
-Sein's movement is a lot to wrap your head around sometimes
-penalized by parry
-reliance on down special in general
-opponent can DI out of kills from non-upward enhanced strongs

Shovel Knight:
Gimmick: "Digging For Loot" (?)
Pros and cons are currently unknown.

[[JRE] Joe Rogan]

Appreciate people not being ♥♥♥♥♥ to me here even though I went off. :)

Game is fun but I hate specific MUs I think.

[M4rwan]

Originally posted by Techno Brownie:

Thiss isnt a rant or anything (Atleast I dont think it is) but when I look online for a tier list everyone says this game is balanced so there really isnt one. I wanna know how so. Does everyone have such minor diffrences in stats outside of move lists that everyone is equaly viable? Or is it balances because each charater can break the game using wavedashing and... Alright fine. This is a minor major gripe about wavedashing. Every now and again I get nights where everyon and there babys uncle is wavedashing and it just spins my head around. Even when I (rarely) beat them with no contest its like im playing catch up the entire match.

But realy. With and without wavedashing, how is the game ballanced? Do ceartan fighters have a clear weakness (like megaman)? Does stage selection play a roll or is it personal preffrence?

Wavedash isn't mandatory but it helps for a lot of thing. It doesn't break the game since it's balanced with it taken into account.

Some match-ups are map dependent (it's imo harder to play against Etalus on Etheral Abyss (FD but in RoA)) but map picks are mostly preferences.

About characters, you can achieve top 8 with every of them. None of them is so underpowered he can't win against the other.

Just remember that game is balanced and stupidly strong stuff will be patched and if it's not, maybe it's because it's not as strong as you think it is, and you should try to learn how to deal with it.

[Baalf]

Originally posted by Twist:

One of the main reasons this game is so balanced is because of the small roster. Having less charecters makes it easier to keep everyone viable. Another reason the game is fairly balanced is because of it's constant support of the developers. They continuously update and tweek charecters so that one is not way above the others. If you are looking to find who is considered top tier, most people would consider etelus the best, and he has the most high placings in tournies. Most charecters do have weeknesses, but i do not know all of them.

Etalus?

... wow, the big guys are never hi tier.

[Toxi The Vagrant]

Originally posted by MugoUrth:

Originally posted by Twist:

One of the main reasons this game is so balanced is because of the small roster. Having less charecters makes it easier to keep everyone viable. Another reason the game is fairly balanced is because of it's constant support of the developers. They continuously update and tweek charecters so that one is not way above the others. If you are looking to find who is considered top tier, most people would consider etelus the best, and he has the most high placings in tournies. Most charecters do have weeknesses, but i do not know all of them.

Etalus?

... wow, the big guys are never hi tier.

Yeah, normally, big bodies suffer from being slow... Etalus is a fast big body. freeze the ground and have a good time as a literal bus of a bear.