The current problems with Clairen and Ranno

[hypster]

There's no reason for Clairen to get tipper as much as she does. Every move combos into itself and it's just an endless swipefest. Ranno should not be able to nair larger than Etalus and just spam it off stage because it also combos into itself. All I play against is Clairen and Ranno, as Ori. Not because they are just new, but because they are broken and easy. Clairen counter is spammable, and is a direct upgrade to parry. Ranno can just spam tongue, it would be fantastic if you're just mashing it, the tongue range gets cut. Something. Or for the hitbox on the sticky part to be slightly smaller.

We don't need op characters, we need buffs to those ignored. Maypul and Ori. There are obvious things wrong with Maypul's kit, and I know Ori already got a nerf, which was deserved in some parts but went too far. Ori needs an improved recovery to be viable in any competitive capacity.

Whatever I'm just tired of being matched against these losers every time. It's not like I'm losing every time to them either, I'm just bored of dealing with being in hitstun for 10 straight seconds and dying when my DI was spot on, and being bubbled for free combos up to 100 then smashed off the side.

[WizeLogic]

Hiro Protagonest eredeti hozzászólása:

Disclaimer: Everything I've seen shows Clairen is probably overpowered. She has notable combo game, kill moves, and neutral.

That does not mean she is just grossly broken, unbeatable, and every single move in her kit - except for her grab which no one talks about - is overpowered. Seriously.

that explains why you can beat clairen super easily with maypul

[Ball0fLight]

I dont beleive that

[hypster]

Hiro Protagonest eredeti hozzászólása:

Disclaimer: Everything I've seen shows Clairen is probably overpowered. She has notable combo game, kill moves, and neutral.

That does not mean she is just grossly broken, unbeatable, and every single move in her kit - except for her grab which no one talks about - is overpowered. Seriously.

I never said unbeatable. There are just a few tweaks that need to be made to bring her in line with the rest of the cast, like the ones I illustrated above.

[Cubey3]

"we need buffs to those ignored. Maypul and Ori."
Ori is fine, as for maypul

*spaces out and has vietnam war flashbacks*

[hypster]

Spooky3 (Cubey3) eredeti hozzászólása:

"we need buffs to those ignored. Maypul and Ori."
Ori is fine, as for maypul

*spaces out and has vietnam war flashbacks*

Proof?

[hypster]

This is a discussion, not opinion spamming. There is an objective.

[KaZudra]

Clairen is great IMHO, OP definetly, but I do enjoy some safe edge recovery, because man, I really hate how little the game gives you in that regard.

[Cubey3]

hypster0628 eredeti hozzászólása:

Spooky3 (Cubey3) eredeti hozzászólása:

"we need buffs to those ignored. Maypul and Ori."
Ori is fine, as for maypul

*spaces out and has vietnam war flashbacks*

Proof?

Froof for first statement, im an ori main myself, oris tools are all useful and he has no partucuarly bad matchups. I guess you could say kragg is a bad matchup purely because ori dies easy, and clarien as all her moves can easily outrange ori, but every character has flaws, we cant all have frame 3 shine attacks and amazing recoveries.

As for maypul she is already a real pain to deal with. *flashback*........................
Oh, sorry, where was I? I belive I was talking about maypul being really annoying being able to make really long strings and completely mop the floor with you if you make too many mistakes. She is an agressive monster in this game, able to force you into a corner no matter where you are on the stage. That said maypul is also intentionally hard to learn and play, sortof like absa, you have to learn maypuls advanced strings and techs if you want to suceed with her

[hypster]

Spooky3 (Cubey3) eredeti hozzászólása:

hypster0628 eredeti hozzászólása:

Proof?

Froof for first statement, im an ori main myself, oris tools are all useful and he has no partucuarly bad matchups. I guess you could say kragg is a bad matchup purely because ori dies easy, and clarien as all her moves can easily outrange ori, but every character has flaws, we cant all have frame 3 shine attacks and amazing recoveries.

Ori's recovery is objectively bad; you can trick people occasionally by not floating across the stage/back and forth then dropping, but 9/10 times you'll be smacked out of the air for a free combo (ahem*Ranno*cough). Down B is ok for projectiles but it useless when trying to make contact with another human player. Anyone with a brain can see it coming and it should lose a few frames. I think side B could just follow a static arc at a decent speed, the current way you have to aim it is telegraphed to the other player and is easily avoided.

[Cubey3]

hypster0628 eredeti hozzászólása:

Spooky3 (Cubey3) eredeti hozzászólása:

Froof for first statement, im an ori main myself, oris tools are all useful and he has no partucuarly bad matchups. I guess you could say kragg is a bad matchup purely because ori dies easy, and clarien as all her moves can easily outrange ori, but every character has flaws, we cant all have frame 3 shine attacks and amazing recoveries.

Ori's recovery is objectively bad; you can trick people occasionally by not floating across the stage/back and forth then dropping, but 9/10 times you'll be smacked out of the air for a free combo (ahem*Ranno*cough). Down B is ok for projectiles but it useless when trying to make contact with another human player. Anyone with a brain can see it coming and it should lose a few frames. I think side B could just follow a static arc at a decent speed, the current way you have to aim it is telegraphed to the other player and is easily avoided.

Like I said all characters have flaws, while oris recovery is linear at the begining, its not too hard tricking the opponent once you can open and close the feather. You can use fastfalls to get back to the stage or keep re opening the feather to deter or beat out other attacks. The side B is mainly to halt the opponents advance, to pressure at range and to add an extra movement option for your bash. These moves arent nearly as bad as you think they are

[hypster]

Spooky3 (Cubey3) eredeti hozzászólása:

hypster0628 eredeti hozzászólása:

Ori's recovery is objectively bad; you can trick people occasionally by not floating across the stage/back and forth then dropping, but 9/10 times you'll be smacked out of the air for a free combo (ahem*Ranno*cough). Down B is ok for projectiles but it useless when trying to make contact with another human player. Anyone with a brain can see it coming and it should lose a few frames. I think side B could just follow a static arc at a decent speed, the current way you have to aim it is telegraphed to the other player and is easily avoided.

Like I said all characters have flaws, while oris recovery is linear at the begining, its not too hard tricking the opponent once you can open and close the feather. You can use fastfalls to get back to the stage or keep re opening the feather to deter or beat out other attacks. The side B is mainly to halt the opponents advance, to pressure at range and to add an extra movement option for your bash. These moves arent nearly as bad as you think they are

I agree with you that inherently these don't seem like issues but this game is very good because it's straightforward. Rivals that are complex (Ori, Absa, Maypul) are overshadowed by blisteringly simple rivals like Clairen. Not everyone should be simple but I think the comples rivals need a little help whether that be an adjustment to recovery or speeding up a rarely used move.

[ColinDaLoog]

The thing I have about Ranno is that he is similar to Sheik in Smash. Quick framedata, good recovery, excellent combos, a reliable projectile, and perfect edgeguarding. The thing is, the DI for Ranno is hard to combat for some players. I am bad, but does it help that one combo from Ranno is an easy death to someone who does not have him or very little experience towards the matchup? I am curious on how He controls, but from the little tutorial sections on local I have found that he is on par with Sheik. Honestly, it would be nice to know how to combat Ranno, or even like the discussion has talked about, buffing the weaker characters.