I'm sick of Tailing Disposal Simulator.

[DaLagga]

Because that's what this game has degenerated into. So a Bloomery generates 1 tailing per iron ingot with MAX efficiency? Meaning that I have to dig down to bedrock and waste an ENTIRE block space to store just ONE tailing while finding some black hole to dump my billions of tons of stone? That sure is fun, lemme tell ya. I'll never forget the 8 hours of my life I spent engaging in this task that was more boring than my real life job just to dispose of ~4 stockpiles worth of tailings to keep from nuking the planet with pollution.

Nevertheless, I pressed onward because I heard that once I got the Blast Furnace that Tailing Disposal Simulator would finally come to an end and I could instead focus most of my time on the actual game instead of roleplaying as a Dwarf who was given a life sentence as a waste disposal specialist for boning the queen's cousin (yeah, boredom stimulates my imagination).

Much to my dismay, the Blast Furnace changed nothing. You still create a tailing for EVERY SINGLE iron ingot produced even though the UI clearly states that it should be half that amount. Even if that's a bug, half a tailing per ingot is still absurd and I'm just not doing it. I'd rather just watch the planet burn or go play something else at this point. If pollution were actually this harmful and difficult to dispose of in real life we would have gone extinct long ago, and taken the rest of the bioshpere with us.

[grimr]

before the change you could store tailings underground and contain them granted it was still 1:1 ratio tailing and ingots. Now it's a run away problem with now end in sight. I don't even know if burying them deep enough slows the pollution down at all. By the time i dug it my world might be ruined.

[DaLagga]

Even if burying them offered perfect containment, it still doesn't alleviate the extreme tedium and grind from having to bury them in the first place. It takes a good 20 minutes to dig and clear all the stone for a 5x5x5 stockpile and that's a big problem with how much of this crap I need to dispose of.

Long story short, I do actually like the idea of tailings. Having to bury pollution encourages the player to dig mineshafts where they'll get useful resources to use later so it's a nice merging of two different game mechanics. It's the ratios that completely break the whole system though. If a Blast Furnace for example produced something more reasonable like 1 tailing per 5 iron ingots (max efficiency) and they increased the stockpile stack size to 20, it would be fine.

Instead, I end up having to play waste disposal expert 80% of my total play time. I'm tempted to just start dumping it in the desert but honestly, I'll probably just stop playing until this crap is fixed. It's to big of a headache to bother with. Maybe I'll log back in to watch the meteor destroy the world. After all the frustration I've built up, it would probably be rather therapeutic.

[Moontsu]

Having to bury tailings is supposed to encourage cooperation of the players...I would have thought the ideal scenario of a world would be that 1 or 2 players would produce all the iron, or whatever else the blast furnace makes, and then the whole economics/government side of the game would manage the waste.
That's what I THOUGHT the other aim of Eco is- to encourage cooperation on a "world" level.

There are both consumers and sellers, and the govt makes it all work- hopefully much better than it does in real life. Eco is an EDUCATIONAL game, and thus it's not going to be very much like minecrafty/building games. Well, that's my understanding of why it's being developed. *shrugs*

[Ket]

I can't address all of your issues but we are aware of and working on fixing the bug that is doubling the number of tailings produced.
https://github.com/StrangeLoopGames/EcoIssues/issues/9349

[dd_isamu]

hi ^^
On our server we found a workaround for that, we added 1 tailings to the asphalt ramp recipee.
Btw... " If pollution were actually this harmful and difficult to dispose of in real life we would have gone extinct long ago, and taken the rest of the bioshpere with us. "
Not "long ago", but we're there actually, and we will be facing extinction within 50 years.
Some facts :
We're living in a period officially known as the 6th extinction.
30% of the biosphere that were there when you are born is now extinct.
Outside farming won't be possible in most of the actual temperate climates within 25 years.
Have a nice day :)

[DaLagga]

Originally posted by Ket:

I can't address all of your issues but we are aware of and working on fixing the bug that is doubling the number of tailings produced.
https://github.com/StrangeLoopGames/EcoIssues/issues/9349

Thanks for the response. Good to know it will be fixed. Any plans to reduce the amount of time it takes to ditch these tailings though? It's a bit extreme. I just finally got sick of burying it so this was my solution.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/959719855126622718/31C2CE863A833222AEFC69AA374142D381A48AF5/

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/959719855126629333/E3CA4C20989F70C0C3740BB517F042ACCCBADC66/

That desert sure is screwed though. Might need to build a memorial to the mighty cactus.

Originally posted by dd_isamu:

Btw... " If pollution were actually this harmful and difficult to dispose of in real life we would have gone extinct long ago, and taken the rest of the bioshpere with us. "
Not "long ago", but we're there actually, and we will be facing extinction within 50 years.
Some facts :
We're living in a period officially known as the 6th extinction.
30% of the biosphere that were there when you are born is now extinct.
Outside farming won't be possible in most of the actual temperate climates within 25 years.
Have a nice day :)

That's some serious pseudoscientific fear mongering right there. In fact, the biosphere has grown more abundant in my lifetime because the rise in CO2 has resulted in a boom in plant growth which is why forests are growing at unprecended rates and farming has never been better.

[Viktor]

On our private server, we eventually gave up burying tailings underground and just made a 30x30 dumping ground across the river from where we are. It's like an irradiated wasteland there, but at this point, we stopped caring - one of us was basically working 100% of the time on digging out space for tailings, and that was seriously killing his enjoyment.

I understand the need to simulate the pollution that we as humans produce, but you don't need to HAMMER it into our heads with purely unfun and tedious game mechanics that kill all fun one could possibly have with advancing into the industrial age. Even if it's supposed to be educational, it's still a GAME that must be fun for people to keep playing it.

[DaLagga]

Originally posted by Viktor:

On our private server, we eventually gave up burying tailings underground and just made a 30x30 dumping ground across the river from where we are. It's like an irradiated wasteland there, but at this point, we stopped caring - one of us was basically working 100% of the time on digging out space for tailings, and that was seriously killing his enjoyment.

I understand the need to simulate the pollution that we as humans produce, but you don't need to HAMMER it into our heads with purely unfun and tedious game mechanics that kill all fun one could possibly have with advancing into the industrial age. Even if it's supposed to be educational, it's still a GAME that must be fun for people to keep playing it.

Well said. It doesn't do you any good to make an educational game if it isn't fun since nobody is going to be getting an education if they get bored and stop playing your game.

[Kittenpox]

I don't mind digging pits to store the waste. It gives me a dedicated place to gather stone, and although it takes a while before I can (safely) create iron without polluting the world, it's something I can take on.

Though having my friends on our private server basically spend 45mins asking if we have Iron yet ('no - I'm still digging', and/or 'no - I need to make room for another Stockpile down here') isn't the most enjoyable thing. This is before we've gone into heavy iron production, too, and we're just making anvils and pots.

And now with 7.7 ? "Tailings now produce reduced pollution at lower depths rather than a hard cut-off at 10.", which means those 15+ depth pits I've dug out still aren't going to be enough.

Maybe I should take Viktor's approach and just set aside space for a toxic/nuclear waste dump.
If tailings takes this much effort, can't be disposed of, can't be contained, and will eventually poison the land no matter what I do, maybe I should just choose a location to place signs advertising our server's new Fallout4-themed LARP site?

[dd_isamu]

Originally posted by DaLagga:

Originally posted by dd_isamu:

Btw... " If pollution were actually this harmful and difficult to dispose of in real life we would have gone extinct long ago, and taken the rest of the bioshpere with us. "
Not "long ago", but we're there actually, and we will be facing extinction within 50 years.
Some facts :
We're living in a period officially known as the 6th extinction.
30% of the biosphere that were there when you are born is now extinct.
Outside farming won't be possible in most of the actual temperate climates within 25 years.
Have a nice day :)

That's some serious pseudoscientific fear mongering right there. In fact, the biosphere has grown more abundant in my lifetime because the rise in CO2 has resulted in a boom in plant growth which is why forests are growing at unprecended rates and farming has never been better.

Lmao your sophism is certainly based on psudoscience... What i said though is based on science :
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/world-wildlife-fund-wwf-half-the-worlds-biodiversity-gone-over-last-40-years/
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150619152142.htm
You can check the sources into the links i gave you. And nothing is hard to find...

[Reginleiv]

On the server I had played recently we had digged from height sth like 40 down to 7 - as far as we could dig. We had made a gigantic room for tailings. I guess when the server died (thanks to been shown "offline" after an update even though it was online ... yeah, I know what to do in that case, but many people dont and so the server basically died from one day to the next) we had something like 30 stockpiles completely filled with tailings. Even though all of them were that far below the surface (at some position i think the surface was not on heigth 40, but only 30 instead - but still thats 18 blocks the ground pollution still was very very heavy. It basically was like if we had put them onto the surface^^ So somehow it seems it was completely useless. 2 people out of sth like 10-15 had to work almost full time to make enough room for tailings. I had mined something like 12-13k stones for that^^. So yeah, basically the idea of tailings is fine, but the execution is pretty annyoing in the meantime because you produce sooo/tooo much tailings.

[Hooch]

Originally posted by dd_isamu:

hi ^^
On our server we found a workaround for that, we added 1 tailings to the asphalt ramp recipee.

This is a great solution, I'll try it. Thanks.

Btw... " If pollution were actually this harmful and difficult to dispose of in real life we would have gone extinct long ago, and taken the rest of the bioshpere with us. "
Not "long ago", but we're there actually, and we will be facing extinction within 50 years.

That is utter nonsense. There is NO scientific data that supports such a conclusion.

Some facts :
We're living in a period officially known as the 6th extinction.

True. But not evidence of humanity facing extinction in 50 years.

30% of the biosphere that were there when you are born is now extinct.

20% of animals on earth face extinction (not humans). It is estimated that 50% will be by the end of the century.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/25/half-all-species-extinct-end-century-vatican-conference

That's some pretty crappy news, obviously.

But it is not support of your claim that humanity will face extinction in 50 years.

Outside farming won't be possible in most of the actual temperate climates within 25 years.

Doubtful. What is the evidence of this?

Regardless, the complaint the other poster was making was that the polution level from IRON WORKING is completely unreasonable and unrealistic in this game. In the game, it is perhapds hundreds times worse than reality.

Because of that disconnect, there are only 2 possibilities:

1) it's a bug
2) it's left-wing propaganda attempting to indoctrinate (and mislead) gamers

The devs seem to acknowledge that it is #1 (a bug).

Thank goodness.

[Hooch]

Originally posted by Viktor:

I understand the need to simulate the pollution that we as humans produce, but you don't need to HAMMER it into our heads with purely unfun and tedious game mechanics that kill all fun one could possibly have with advancing into the industrial age. Even if it's supposed to be educational, it's still a GAME that must be fun for people to keep playing it.

Originally posted by DaLagga:

Well said. It doesn't do you any good to make an educational game if it isn't fun since nobody is going to be getting an education if they get bored and stop playing your game.

Well, to be clear, it ISN'T educational if the pollution that results is hundreds times worse than reality. Instead, it's propaganda.

However, it seems like the devs have acknowledged this to be a bug, so hopefully that gets fixed easily enough. It's easier to correct a bug than it is someone's political ideologies/beliefs.

[SorrySoup]

I don't get people whining about tailing...
Dig small 7x7x6 rooms square patterns downward in an iron mine, put stockpiles in each room up to the surface, bring iron up trough stockpiles. put tailings down furtest possible trough stockpiles. Close access to mine with a door. Clean stockpiles of sandstone and other stone crushing them and sell them.

There's MORE space created that way than space required for tailings, EVEN without BU in your rockerbox and the basic setup. It's all about digging in squares. You'll have 0 pollution if you do so and a very clean mine, you can even put a LLSP once you have enough mined space.

If you don't understand this very basic mechanic, or it's too "hard" for you, stop mining, go tree farming/farmer.

[Rathelm]

I don't get why people necro a post from 3+ years ago that probably had different game mechanics.