Killer perks rework (some)

[Quick]

I'm currently writing balance changes i would made in game, and here are some examples

Rapid Brutality
👍Buff = U can gain bloodlust
👍Buff = Increased duration (8/9/10s --> 10/20/30s)
👍Buff = Can stack with itself

Overcharge
👎🏾Nerf = Reduced min regression speed (85% --> 50%)
👎🏾Nerf = Reduced time to achieve max regression over (30s --> 60s)
👍Buff = Increased max regression speed (130% --> 300/400/500%)
👍Buff = Increased missed skillcheck extra penatly (2/3/4%P --> 3/4/5%P)

Scourge Hook: Hangman's Trick
👍Buff = Scourge hooks cant be sabotaged or destroyed no matter what
👍Buff = Every time u unhook survivor from a scourge hook, it becomes a
scourge hook

Spirit Fury
👍Buff = Decreased token amount to trigger (4/3/2 --> 3/2/1)

Surveillance
🔄Rework = Increase charges that are required to complete a generator by
+1/3/5c every time you manually kick it

Undone
👍Buff = Every time survivor fails, succeds good or great skill check (was only
fail), undone gains +3 tokens
👍Buff = Undone gains +3tokens also when taking health state from survivor
👍Buff = Removed cooldown
👍Buff = Increased max tokens amount (24/27/30 --> 20/40/60)

[R-Theme]

Even bhvr have better balance than this

[Newforous]

Alright, I'll bite. I like the idea of some lesser used perk balance changes. I'll respond to these in the order of most in need of potential...tweaking:

- Spirit Fury. That's probably a completely fine buff. Most games involving spirit fury tend to operate as if the killer always has it active and go in the direction of predropping anyway on any killer that doesn't have a pallet breaking toolset as soon as it is revealed. (Demo comes to mind here.) It's a reasonable little quality of life buff that MIGHT be a problem on a Ghoul of Legion, but it'd have to be tested. Probably fine.

- Overcharge. While I'm not sure about the 500%, the idea of making overcharge more of an strong gen regression perk that makes survivors have to respond to a kick with a tap is interesting. A reverse Pop if you will. I think the idea of having the regression ramp up could potentially be taken even farther. If you want to put a number like 5X regression speed on a perk, you might have to put the base regression speed to like 25% of normal. But I think that's a neat design space. The gen gets kicked and it does almost nothing at the start, but once a survivor touches it, now the team knows that every kicked gen is now a HIGH priority for the rest of the match. I think this is a cool idea with the regression and kick limits in play. Numbers may need some tweaking though because right now this is VERY strong.

- Undone. The cooldown can go as it has never mattered, agreed. I think it could get out of hand a bit too fast if you gained 3 tokens on every skillcheck period. Perhaps, if the level of skillcheck effected the tokens? 3 for bad, 2 for good, 1 for great? This could also let you gain some small information. Giving some tokens for a health state is maybe too far? I'm for giving three tokens on an M1, but a lot of the injury spreading killers could rack up the equivalent of a Pop without much issue. Dunno if it's too much, or if it is just not in the spirit of the perk? Also, I personally think the max stack cap should go to 100, purely because it's very hard and funny.

- Surveillance. The proposed rework still seems pretty weak. I'm not really for this one. It's not a great perk as is but it can do some decent info gathering with Ruin I guess? I feel like your rework could be developed more.

- Hangman's Trick. This is kind of a full rework actually. Also, I'm just assuming you meant "every time you unhook survivor from a non- scourge hook, it becomes a
scourge hook". I don't really like that here. That's Jagged Compass' thing, and making the hooks unsabotagable defeats the flavor and use of the original perk. Maybe we could consider something like: "When a survivor sabotages a Scourge Hook while you are carrying a Survivor, the next nearest Hook becomes a Scourge Hook and the Wiggle Meter is paused for 10 seconds." Kinda keeps the original design space in a way. I've heard someone redesign this perk by saying, "the hook should fall on the survivor and injure them" too. I just feel like Hangman's Trick should keep the "consequence of saboing" as a focus.

-Rapid Brutality. Oh heavens. Oh no. Okay, not gaining bloodlust has never really been much of a drawback for Rapid, we can probably agree on this. It stacking with itself, in a vacuum, is not that big of a deal. Most of the time you would be unlikely to get more than 10% Haste for a few seconds, which is quite strong, but 10% haste is sort of the threshold where things get spooky speed wise. If you get to 15% things start to get out of hand, but that'd be really uncommon. However, the real issue I see with this rework is the statement, "5% Haste for 30 seconds on every M1". This is really scary to the way DBD works as a game. The killer just has better MFT for most of the game. A significant amount of looping just doesn't function, and a lot of that is due to the length of 30 seconds. Really think about how long that is in a match. You lose a bit due to the hit animation, but think about how much time you have to run down a survivor on what are now potentially unsafe tiles. I think 10% haste for 10 seconds or 5% haste for 15 seconds are both perfectly reasonable buffs, but 5% haste (self-stacking or not) for 30 seconds will often be permanent 5% haste. I'm a big Singularity fan, but this one is too much, chief.

[Quick]

Originally posted by Newforous:

Alright, I'll bite. I like the idea of some lesser used perk balance changes. I'll respond to these in the order of most in need of potential...tweaking:

- Spirit Fury. That's probably a completely fine buff. Most games involving spirit fury tend to operate as if the killer always has it active and go in the direction of predropping anyway on any killer that doesn't have a pallet breaking toolset as soon as it is revealed. (Demo comes to mind here.) It's a reasonable little quality of life buff that MIGHT be a problem on a Ghoul of Legion, but it'd have to be tested. Probably fine.

- Overcharge. While I'm not sure about the 500%, the idea of making overcharge more of an strong gen regression perk that makes survivors have to respond to a kick with a tap is interesting. A reverse Pop if you will. I think the idea of having the regression ramp up could potentially be taken even farther. If you want to put a number like 5X regression speed on a perk, you might have to put the base regression speed to like 25% of normal. But I think that's a neat design space. The gen gets kicked and it does almost nothing at the start, but once a survivor touches it, now the team knows that every kicked gen is now a HIGH priority for the rest of the match. I think this is a cool idea with the regression and kick limits in play. Numbers may need some tweaking though because right now this is VERY strong.

- Undone. The cooldown can go as it has never mattered, agreed. I think it could get out of hand a bit too fast if you gained 3 tokens on every skillcheck period. Perhaps, if the level of skillcheck effected the tokens? 3 for bad, 2 for good, 1 for great? This could also let you gain some small information. Giving some tokens for a health state is maybe too far? I'm for giving three tokens on an M1, but a lot of the injury spreading killers could rack up the equivalent of a Pop without much issue. Dunno if it's too much, or if it is just not in the spirit of the perk? Also, I personally think the max stack cap should go to 100, purely because it's very hard and funny.

- Surveillance. The proposed rework still seems pretty weak. I'm not really for this one. It's not a great perk as is but it can do some decent info gathering with Ruin I guess? I feel like your rework could be developed more.

- Hangman's Trick. This is kind of a full rework actually. Also, I'm just assuming you meant "every time you unhook survivor from a non- scourge hook, it becomes a
scourge hook". I don't really like that here. That's Jagged Compass' thing, and making the hooks unsabotagable defeats the flavor and use of the original perk. Maybe we could consider something like: "When a survivor sabotages a Scourge Hook while you are carrying a Survivor, the next nearest Hook becomes a Scourge Hook and the Wiggle Meter is paused for 10 seconds." Kinda keeps the original design space in a way. I've heard someone redesign this perk by saying, "the hook should fall on the survivor and injure them" too. I just feel like Hangman's Trick should keep the "consequence of saboing" as a focus.

-Rapid Brutality. Oh heavens. Oh no. Okay, not gaining bloodlust has never really been much of a drawback for Rapid, we can probably agree on this. It stacking with itself, in a vacuum, is not that big of a deal. Most of the time you would be unlikely to get more than 10% Haste for a few seconds, which is quite strong, but 10% haste is sort of the threshold where things get spooky speed wise. If you get to 15% things start to get out of hand, but that'd be really uncommon. However, the real issue I see with this rework is the statement, "5% Haste for 30 seconds on every M1". This is really scary to the way DBD works as a game. The killer just has better MFT for most of the game. A significant amount of looping just doesn't function, and a lot of that is due to the length of 30 seconds. Really think about how long that is in a match. You lose a bit due to the hit animation, but think about how much time you have to run down a survivor on what are now potentially unsafe tiles. I think 10% haste for 10 seconds or 5% haste for 15 seconds are both perfectly reasonable buffs, but 5% haste (self-stacking or not) for 30 seconds will often be permanent 5% haste. I'm a big Singularity fan, but this one is too much, chief.

i mean today i finished reworking ALL killer perks, and it took me no cap 4h, and im glad someone also spend their time wyping and giving me good ideas - hook falling on sabotaging survivor? or scourge hook becoming temporarily and clocking wiggle? thats also cool, thanks mate, tomorrow i will release the rest bc i need to go to sleep