We desperately need to talk about Camping on DBD

[Sulley]

Ok, so i guess it's not ***BREAKING NEWS*** that the great majority of killers nowadays use either mori, NOED and/or the camping & tunneling playstyle.

Personally, I think mori is kind of a jerk move... about NOED, maybe it balances the game a bit in some situations, but it can be countered... but that's not what i want to talk about in this post.

The thing is: I think that in about 70% of the matches i've played in the last few weeks, the killer just picks a random survivor, hooks him and them just stands near him or run around him waiting for him to die. If someones manages to save him, he either downs the savior and do the same or tunnels the former-hooked survivor one more time.

Some killers even think it's funny and are proud to do that and to hear other players "cry" about it in their profiles. Some just do it and stay quiet. Anyway, the thing is: they do it because it works. It's as simple as that. There is absolutely no penalties whatsoever for camping and tunneling - or, in other words, for ruining someone's game.

In fact, beyond that, they get rewarded for doing so. It's really frustrating to see campers leave the lobby with 25k+ bloodpoints. And there's nothing you can do about it. You can have borrowed time or decisive strike and all that, but if a decent killer is foccused on hitting, hooking and camping you, eventually that's what's going to happen.

(By the way, Otz already did a stream showing that there's basically nothing the survivors can do about facecamping, on the first half of this video [www.twitch.tv])

And that's thew whole point. Maybe if the developers didn't reward this kind of behavior, there wouldn't be so many killers doing it. But if you can easily farm bloodpoints by just hooking and camping survivors one by one, than there's no point in trying hard to actually play the game, huh?

I'm tired of seeing bubbas or billys just standing in front of a hooked survivor, wainting for another one to show up so they can insta down him too - and not even hook the second one, just waiting for the first one to die... and worst, leaving the lobby with 25k+ BPs thinking he did great.

Some people would say "just genrush the ♥♥♥♥ out the killer", but that still doesn't make up for the fact that one player couldn't do a single thing in the entire match and got his game ruined by some troll.

I really wanted to see what you guys think about it... i think a simple way to punish this kinda thing would be to increasingly detract bloodpoints from the killer who stands too long near a hooked survivor, or maybe reward killers for going after differerent survivors after each hook. I dunno, but, in my opinion, something should be done about this situation.

I also wanted to see especially the opinions of killer mains... seriously, what's the logic of doing this? Is there any fun in a non-sadistic way?

I don't really care about pips or rank, but i DO care about trolls and toxic behavior in-game. It's sad to see how a good game gets ruined by a toxic community, but it's even worse to see a good game become trashed by estimulating the toxic behavior...

[Gintoki]

man, I agree with his view on, I even followed the Otz stream where he did the experiment with noed and camper / tuneling as a game mode, and although noed is a really strong perk it can still be counteracted, which is the discussion about campering and tunneling, there is no punishment, there is no gain in skill, neither for survival nor for the killer, and I say this through games with both, and it does not benefit me to camper as a killer, you lose points that could be farmados, you lose new ways of breaking loops, so from any angle I try to see these situations, it is not beneficial to just camper. but the game doesn't recognize this, and it actually continues to reward the killer it does, with the amount of points that a normal killer playing would earn or even more often. Gen rush may be effective in that sense, but at what cost? the person who was being camped had a loss of rank as well as a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ match, I have a certain appreciation for the rank, I think that if we reached the rank we are in it was not free, and to see this being taken away simply by having found a killer using this toxic play style. So if possible I would like to add the suggestion that if it has been recognized that the killer is using this style of gameplay, that it does not affect the ranks of survivals.

[Schulz]

引用自 rodrigokrusso：

Ok, so i guess it's not ***BREAKING NEWS*** that the great majority of killers nowadays use either mori, NOED and/or the camping & tunneling playstyle.

Personally, I think mori is kind of a jerk move... about NOED, maybe it balances the game a bit in some situations, but it can be countered... but that's not what i want to talk about in this post.

The thing is: I think that in about 60% of the matches i've played in the last few weeks, the killer just picks a random survivor, hooks him and them just stands near him or run around him waiting for him to die. If someones manages to save him, he either downs the savior and do the same or tunnels the former-hooked survivor one more time.

Some killers even think it's funny and are proud to do that and to hear other players "cry" about it in their profiles. Some just do it and stay quiet. Anyway, the thing is: they do it because it works. It's as simple as that. There is absolutely no penalties whatsoever for camping and tunneling - or, in other words, for ruining someone's game.

In fact, beyond that, they get rewarded for doing so. It's really frustrating to see campers leave the lobby with 25k+ bloodpoints. And there's nothing you can do about it. You can have borrowed time or decisive strike and all that, but if a decent killer is foccused on hitting, hooking and camping you, eventually that's what's going to happen.

(By the way, Otz already did a stream showing that there's basically nothing the survivors can do about facecamping, on the first half of this video [www.twitch.tv])

And that's thew whole point. Maybe if the developers didn't reward this kind of behavior, there wouldn't be so many killers doing it. But if you can easily farm bloodpoints by just hooking and camping survivors one by one, than there's no point in trying hard to actually play the game, huh?

I'm tired of seeing bubbas or billys just standing in front of a hooked survivor, wainting for another one to show up so they can insta down him too - and not even hook the second one, just waiting for the first one to die... and worst, leaving the lobby with 25k+ BPs thinking he did great.

Some people would say "just genrush the ♥♥♥♥ out the killer", but that still doesn't make up for the fact that one player couldn't do a single thing in the entire match and got his game ruined by some troll.

I really wanted to see what you guys think about it... i think a simple way to punish this kinda thing would be to increasingly detract bloodpoints from the killer who stands too long near a hooked survivor, or maybe reward killers for going after differerent survivors after each hook. I dunno, but, in my opinion, something should be done about this situation.

I also wanted to see especially the opinions of killer mains... seriously, what's the logic of doing this? Is there any fun in a non-sadistic way?

I don't really care about pips or rank, but i DO care about trolls and toxic behavior in-game. It's sad to see how a good game gets ruined by a toxic community, but it's even worse to see a good game become trashed by estimulating the toxic behavior...

chill your tatas,
game is unbalance, people will camp..

[Kettlebloke]

Until something is done about gen speed/map pressure killers are going to camp, ever since I hit red ranks I proxy camp most games.

[Pygs]

It just shouldn't punish survs as much, either

[Sulley]

引用自 Pigsplaygames7：

It just shouldn't punish survs as much, either

Agreed, that's the point!

[Reaper]

tl;dr crying survivor mad that killers don't play by the survivors made up rulebook.

[limierr]

引用自 rodrigokrusso：

Ok, so i guess it's not ***BREAKING NEWS*** that the great majority of killers nowadays use either mori, NOED and/or the camping & tunneling playstyle.

Personally, I think mori is kind of a jerk move... about NOED, maybe it balances the game a bit in some situations, but it can be countered... but that's not what i want to talk about in this post.

The thing is: I think that in about 70% of the matches i've played in the last few weeks, the killer just picks a random survivor, hooks him and them just stands near him or run around him waiting for him to die. If someones manages to save him, he either downs the savior and do the same or tunnels the former-hooked survivor one more time.

Some killers even think it's funny and are proud to do that and to hear other players "cry" about it in their profiles. Some just do it and stay quiet. Anyway, the thing is: they do it because it works. It's as simple as that. There is absolutely no penalties whatsoever for camping and tunneling - or, in other words, for ruining someone's game.

In fact, beyond that, they get rewarded for doing so. It's really frustrating to see campers leave the lobby with 25k+ bloodpoints. And there's nothing you can do about it. You can have borrowed time or decisive strike and all that, but if a decent killer is foccused on hitting, hooking and camping you, eventually that's what's going to happen.

(By the way, Otz already did a stream showing that there's basically nothing the survivors can do about facecamping, on the first half of this video [www.twitch.tv])

And that's thew whole point. Maybe if the developers didn't reward this kind of behavior, there wouldn't be so many killers doing it. But if you can easily farm bloodpoints by just hooking and camping survivors one by one, than there's no point in trying hard to actually play the game, huh?

I'm tired of seeing bubbas or billys just standing in front of a hooked survivor, wainting for another one to show up so they can insta down him too - and not even hook the second one, just waiting for the first one to die... and worst, leaving the lobby with 25k+ BPs thinking he did great.

Some people would say "just genrush the ♥♥♥♥ out the killer", but that still doesn't make up for the fact that one player couldn't do a single thing in the entire match and got his game ruined by some troll.

I really wanted to see what you guys think about it... i think a simple way to punish this kinda thing would be to increasingly detract bloodpoints from the killer who stands too long near a hooked survivor, or maybe reward killers for going after differerent survivors after each hook. I dunno, but, in my opinion, something should be done about this situation.

I also wanted to see especially the opinions of killer mains... seriously, what's the logic of doing this? Is there any fun in a non-sadistic way?

I don't really care about pips or rank, but i DO care about trolls and toxic behavior in-game. It's sad to see how a good game gets ruined by a toxic community, but it's even worse to see a good game become trashed by estimulating the toxic behavior...

So :
=> both side can camp and tunnel in general. What is the solution for both side ?
=> it is possible to unhook even with leatherface but you need some coordination

[Equalizer]

Agree
Such a nice, beautiful, cool game being ruined (by some degree) by allowing the toxicity to be rewarded over fairness. Facepalm

The worst are the killers, but survs can be a little toxic too... excessive unnecessary flashlight clicking, tbag, chat, abuse of game mechanics itself ... etc, all combined

[Sulley]

引用自 Equalizer：

Agree
Such a nice, beautiful, cool game being ruined (by some degree) by allowing the toxicity to be rewarded over fairness. Facepalm

Worst are the killers but survs can be a little toxic too... excessive unnecessary flashlight clicking, tbag, chat, abuse of game mechanics itself ... etc, all combined

Agreed, i've seen a lot of survivors complain about very "normal" gameplays, like, if the killer is on the map, he is already camping hahaha

But what also grinds my gears just as much as campers is to see experienced survivors being toxic to baby/beginner killers... they don't wanna be camped or tunneled because it's toxic, but they don't mind being jerks and abusing the killer on the chat instead of teaching and/or giving hints so he can actually learn to play the game and avoid camping and tunelling later on...

[Sulley]

引用自 Limierr：

So :
=> both side can camp and tunnel in general. What is the solution for both side ?
=> it is possible to unhook even with leatherface but you need some coordination

I see your point, but unfortunatelly i don't know how to give an proper answer :(

i truely feel like the game can be pretty balanced when a decent killer play against a good team of suvs, without the need of camping, but i realize that it gets messier when you arrive at red ranks, especially if the survivors are on a 3-4 people party.

I was thinking the other day about how it was like before they nerfed Hex: Ruin. The killers didn't feel the need to camp because the Hex already delayed the game long enough. Altought almost everyone used that perk to the point it was also kinda annoying, that was my point with this post: the balance relied on a in-game mechanic that allowed both sides to play, without the need to use a strategy that prevents the other side to do something about it and kills the game/fun of someone completely.

I don't know if slowing the gens down, removing god-windows or decrease the size of the maps - like they're doing in this last update - will be enough to prevent this situation from happening, but i think they are trying to make up for it to prevent the excessive camping that's been going on recently...

[Biscuits]

I can promise you as frustrated as you feel by camping, the few Killer mains that are left at high ranks are equally frustrated by Survivor SWF squads and all their toxic behavior that you already mentioned. There is no way to fix either issue, so might as well accept it.

PkB suggested some things that very obviously would never work. They even tried something like that before (punishing killer for being in proximity of hooked survivor) and guess what happened? Survivor squads would purposely keep killer around the hook so they would get the punishment, all the while running loops and flashlights and what not to rack up their own bloodpoints for the match.

Camping is a thing, it always will be. Devs have already stated in their stream that camping is never going to be punished ... probably because there is no fair way to do it that can't be abused by SWF squads.

It is unfortunate when people play like this and especially for the Survivor who doesn't get a chance to do anything after getting caught, but it is what it is. There is an equal amount of toxic and unfun gameplay from Survivors that is done to Killers, also no way to fix that.

Survivors already have access to the most powerful mechanic in the game by a longshot (SWF with Discord). If the devs started punishing Killers more for how they are playing while letting Survivor SWF squads continue unabated, dont you think the population of people maining Killer would decrease drastically and queue times for Survivor would go even higher than they are now? I mean, who would be excited to queue up as a Killer knowing you will get punished if you don't play a specific way because Survivors complained, but Survivors play however they want.

[AZTEC]

if he just stand and camp one guy, just do gens and run, you will surely piss that facecamper off. because he is just trying to bait you. As for people who get facecamp, im sorry but just try to die and start a new game. If your objectives is to have fun, and revenege face camping is to make the killer unfun (can only 1K)

[Ghostdog]

For one you sound like a survivor only. Its difficult to pip as killer many times, camping is the fastest way to derank. As for tunneling, its not a thing. Ive had survivors run away, i let them go and they dont look behind and run right into me on my new path. Like a deer in the headlights
Post game? Nice tunnel noob!!! Survivor is easy street. I play both

[Sulley]

引用自 PkB：

This is my though if they gonna make it into 'real permanent' mechanic like 'Endgame Collapse' , Just Add These Mechanic to Both Survivor and Killer.

I agree, it doesn't solve the problem to just nerf the killers and let the survivors do whatever they want, it must be a two-way street and i think you gave some very interesting thoughts to it :) i really appreciate it.

I think it would be great if there was a mechanic like that to prevent survivors for farming someone in front of the killer, especially without borrowed time. As for a counterplay for decisive strike, it already can be used only once a game per survivor, so the killer would only deal with it the max at 4 times, if ALL THE SURVIVORS were to use it, witch is unlikely.

About the killer mechanics, i really liked your ideas. The only thing i would add is that, for it to work, the killer couldn't be chasing someone - Because it's not the killer's fault if another survivor starts looping him around a hooked survivor or goes for a risky save while the killer is still near. Other than that, i thought you made some very interesting points and i agree.

引用自 PL4USIBILITY：

I can promise you as frustrated as you feel by camping, the few Killer mains that are left at high ranks are equally frustrated by Survivor SWF squads and all their toxic behavior that you already mentioned. There is no way to fix either issue, so might as well accept it.

I Understand it, and i agree, there should be a way to avoid toxic behavior by survivor as well. I just tought that the killers have more ways to counter toxic survivors than the other way around, but you're right, playing against a party of SWF on Discord can be REALLY hard and frustrating... i wish i could come up with a suggestion to solve this, but i can't think of anything for now, unfortunately... anyways, i appreciate you being polite even though you don't agree with me :)

引用自 Ghostdog：

For one you sound like a survivor only. Its difficult to pip as killer many times, camping is the fastest way to derank. As for tunneling, its not a thing. Ive had survivors run away, i let them go and they dont look behind and run right into me on my new path. Like a deer in the headlights
Post game? Nice tunnel noob!!! Survivor is easy street. I play both

I'm not a survivor only, i play as killer too, altought not as much as i play as survivor. Anyways, you're right, pipping as killer is way harder - altought i don't agree that camping is "the fastest way to derank".

As for the whining survivors on the post game, that's definitely not what i meant. I was talking about real tunneling and camping, not the conception most survivors have and complain about in the lobby haha

Of course if a survivor runs to you again or you end up finding him after the hook by (un)luck, that's not tunneling. But i believe that if you stay near the hook waiting for the save and just run right to the person who just got saved, ignoring body blocks from other survivors and getting out of your way just to kill someone as fast as possible, that's tunneling... And don't get me wrong, i get it when you're trying to kill someone who's using a map/flashlight/key or some perk/item that annoys you, or maybe someone who's way better than the other survivors and it's unbalancing the game their way or maybe you just need to turn the game around after a genrush, i just don't see the point in doing that for no reason with all survivors.

Anyway, appreciate all the answers :)

[jackhexsteeler.ttv]

Eh at this point I've been ♥♥♥♥ talked for patrolling, playing freddy, playing the doctor, bumping into an injured survivor and taking him down. Using franklin's demise. Etc, etc. At this point I have stopped caring what survivors think. When the toxicity is fixed we can talk about other stuff.