Freddy's problematic addons.

[Cactipus]

note: this is not a statement about how good/bad freddy is, I just want to talk about freddy's lack of usable addons.

Hey.

Freddy's got a lot of addons, like any other killer, but very few of them come even close to the benefit of just using cat block + sheep block.

If you want the short version of my explanation for why this is, suffice it to say that reducing the time it takes to transition into the dream is much more valuble than reducing skill check chance, or action speed.

If you want the long version, buckle in.

In order to explain why I think freddy's other addons are weak, let me break them down their benefits one buy one.

1. Garden Rake/Prototype Claws/Paint Thinner:

These addons provide a bit of bonus movement speed after freddy successfully pulls a survivor into the dream, and while these are some of the more useful addons, the bonus speed from paint thinner is still not enough to help you catch people that were saving their sprint burst or lithe. In situations where it does help you keep up, however, survivors still have plenty of time to find a pallet to slam on your face while you try to keep up with them.

2. Wool Shirt/Green Dress/Blue Dress:

All of these decrease the chance of a survivor to trigger a skill check while in the dream world, but they all do it in a very unspecific way. I have no idea by what percentage these addons reduce the chance of a skill check. Assuming they reduce the skill chance by the same amount as the survivor's luck offerings, that would mean that the Wool Shirt decreases the skill check chance by 1%, Blue Dress by 2%, and Green Dress by 3% while also increasing the transition time by .5 seconds. Assuming these are the correct values, that would mean that self healing using Self Care has a 9.5%, 8.5% and 7.5% chance to trigger a skill check respectively. While that makes these addons really useful for stopping people from waking up without needing friends, and makes waking up a lot harder when everyone is in the dream, the fact remains that engaging in chases is still problematic, as he has nothing to help him deal with pallets.

These addons are technically powerful, but getting a quick hit before survivors find a loop is just better.

3. Kid's Drawing/Nancy's Sketch/Nancy's Masterpiece:

I've never used any of these addons. Freddy's power has enough range as it is. These are situationally useful at best, and just plain bad at worst.

4. Outdoor Rope/Jump Rope/Swing Chains:

All of these addons reduce the survivor's action speed by a pretty remarkable amount, which could technically be useful when getting everyone in the dream and stalling the exit gates or even generators, but this strategy basically requires use of the aforementioned dresses in order to make sure that people stay in the dream. Great for stalling doors though, as long as everyone's in the dream, as breaking the dream is pretty difficult at that point. However, if your plan is to stall the game out using these addons, you'd be better off using 2 blocks and noed, that way on the offchance they do break the dream, you can still get a clutch hit and aren't forced to let the survivors walk out the while you wait for your power.

5. Misc. Addons; Pill Bottle/Class Photo/Red Paint Brush/Black Box:

Let's start with Black Box. It's bad. Once you find your obsession at the start of the game, assuming it's value was acquired, It's usefulness is expended once you hook them for the first time. While a free hook on your obsession sounds cool, that's all it gives you. Better off using Class Photo.

Speaking of Class Photo, it gives you vision of every single survivor on the map when you put someone in the dream transition, but as a result, it makes the transition last 2 seconds longer. This is a powerful effect, as it helps freddy make sure he can get everyone in the dream. But when you run this addon, you have to consider; What else do you use? Do you use a block addon to try and reduce the amount of time the transition takes, in order to make chases less painful? Or do you use a Dress in order to reduce the likelihood of the suvivors waking up on their own, and maybe make the transition a bit longer to get more time to see the suvivors? Or maybe just use a Nancy's Masterpiece, for some reason. Sure, most of these work to help you get vision on survivors, but they don't really make actually hitting/killing them any easier. It makes the transistion a whopping 9 seconds long without any blocks, making actually chasing people a nightmare.

Next up we got Pill Bottle, which is actually a pretty strong mindgaming tool. If you combine it with a Z block, you'll be down to a 5 second transition, and it'll force them to randomly throw down pallets hoping you're right on top of them. Helpful for avoiding getting rekt by pallet loops, and making that free hit after the dream transition just a litte more free. Plus, it's super satisfying to use.

Now here's an intersting albeit still not useful addon, the Red Painbrush.This little guy reduces the transition by 2 seconds, which is good, and also hugely reduces his terror radius. Both of these are tremendously powerful effects, but that's where the upsides of this item ends. It also reduces Freddy's movement speed, which is very bad when trying to chase someone after a transition. Theoretically, you could use Paint Thinner in combination with this addon to somewhat mitigate his reduced movement speed, but you could acquire the same effect using a z block. The terror radius reduction is nice for keeping track of people through walls, and mindgaming them during chases, but it just doesn't compensate for his reduced speed.


Conclusion

Many of Freddy's addons just don't even come close to matching up to the power of reducing the dream transition, since running Z block + Unicorn block basically guarantees a free hit after a 3.5 second transition, and while you don't get as much free vision as you would using class photo or other addons to keep people in the transition, you get free hits that make chases much easier, last less time, and you still have the ability to get clutch hits after the gates are powered. While it is funny to see how slowly survivors perform actions while using both a jump rope and a swing chain, or making the obsession D/C when you use black box, they just don't provide nearly as consistent of results as the blocks, and I feel that is problematic.

Yea, most killers have some combination of addons that are stronger than most, but their weaker addons still have a distinct function that can be more useful than their optimal combo. Trapper Gloves are still pretty good, Huntress' status effects can still shut down survivors if you can deal with a slower windup, and Nurse doesn't always need 3 blinks if you know what you're doing. Hell, some killers don't even need addons to at least get 2 kills, so I don't see why Freddy has to rely on 2-3 of his addons so much.

Anyway, that's all. I'd really like to see what other people think about freddy's current state of addons. I think they can be situationally useful, but generally they just don't do as much work as his blocks. Thanks for reading.

[DuoMasterMarv]

I've had a chance to read through all of this, and i'm not sure you'll respond but i'll breakdown by what i think are the most useful perks/addons and why.

I think anything that buffs power range is really really handy when you consider how his lullaby works, especially if you're trying to scope out a hook from a distance. Plus if you need to stop pesky exit touching then that's handy. Sometimes that power range can save you that time.


Black box is great, when used in conjunction with a mori. Add on Dying Light to that and you have yourself a guaranteed easy game instantly if you play your cards right. Alternatively if you're skilled enough to keep on an obsession and not need a mori, easy play. (Just hope they're not SWF or they might catch on the plan).

I think the blocks are probably the most useful in the game, and cutting that transistion time down is the quickest way to guarantee any survivor out that you need out.

And finally, Red paint brush is a pain, but can be used in conjunction to make it a masterpiece. I really don't notice the drop in speed for freddy so, using that AND Z block, makes for a murderous combo. Make sure if you're running paint brush you ALSO run Insidious.

Because of freddies built in deerstalker stuff, the paint brush with insidious makes for the fastest cut off of terror radius, as insidious takes time to cut away the radius, but paint brush makes it near instant.


All in all, i think freddy is an excellent killer, people are just awful at utilizing him.

Thoughts?

[Cactipus]

Well, the thing about Black box is, while it does let you find your obsession immediately, Class Photo can accomplish the same thing if you pay attention to who's who in the lobby. As soon as you find someone, you can simply pull everyone in, or look specifically for your obsession.

Black Box also immediately loses all effectiveness once the obsession wakes up the first time, be it via hook, spawning in front of a gen, or next to a buddy. All other addons at least have lasting effects throughout the game, while Black Box only works once.

Furthermore, due to how the chaser emblem works, using a mori isn't really an effective strategy while also trying to pip. Dying Light might be strong on freddy, but I've found that almost every survivor that spawns in the dream D/C's as soon as I find them, rendering my obsession perk worthless.

Also, while insidious with paint brush certainly is effective at finding people in the dream, Monitor and Abuse is probably a better pick. While outside a chase, you will have 0 terror radius, meaning even if they're right next to you, you can read their aura. Like I said in the OP, though, having the same movement speed as the Hag is pretty painful, as it not only reduces his ability to move around and pressure survivors, it also makes it harder to catch them after a pull, makes chases take longer, and reduces one of his greatest strengths, his deceptively long lunge.

In regards to how strong Freddy is, I don't think he's particularly good. I've gotten plenty of 4Ks, made a bunch of rude builds, but I definitely don't think he's nearly as effective as the better killers. He has potential to do well, but he'll never compare to the nurse's insane map pressure and chase ending, or the huntress' quick chases and long-range snipes. He can stall the game for a ridiculously long time, a combination of perks and addons allows him to make the gates take about 2 minutes long, but that doesn't make up for how slow his engagements and chases are. He requires devious planning and scheming to do well with, and create nearly unwinnable scenarios for survivors when executed correctly, but the nurse can just slap people so much more effectively.


also you're wrong to think power range addons are situationally good, i can understand the appeal but there's just better addons to use. it's instantly useless in any claustrophobic map like lery's memorial or around line of sight blockers, and pulling someone into the dream from far away would only be a good thing if you didn't plan on chasing them in the first place.

[DWELFLIVESMATTER]

Originally posted by Cactipus:

note: this is not a statement about how good/bad freddy is, I just want to talk about freddy's lack of usable addons.

Hey.

Freddy's got a lot of addons, like any other killer, but very few of them come even close to the benefit of just using cat block + sheep block.

If you want the short version of my explanation for why this is, suffice it to say that reducing the time it takes to transition into the dream is much more valuble than reducing skill check chance, or action speed.

If you want the long version, buckle in.

In order to explain why I think freddy's other addons are weak, let me break them down their benefits one buy one.

1. Garden Rake/Prototype Claws/Paint Thinner:

These addons provide a bit of bonus movement speed after freddy successfully pulls a survivor into the dream, and while these are some of the more useful addons, the bonus speed from paint thinner is still not enough to help you catch people that were saving their sprint burst or lithe. In situations where it does help you keep up, however, survivors still have plenty of time to find a pallet to slam on your face while you try to keep up with them.

2. Wool Shirt/Green Dress/Blue Dress:

All of these decrease the chance of a survivor to trigger a skill check while in the dream world, but they all do it in a very unspecific way. I have no idea by what percentage these addons reduce the chance of a skill check. Assuming they reduce the skill chance by the same amount as the survivor's luck offerings, that would mean that the Wool Shirt decreases the skill check chance by 1%, Blue Dress by 2%, and Green Dress by 3% while also increasing the transition time by .5 seconds. Assuming these are the correct values, that would mean that self healing using Self Care has a 9.5%, 8.5% and 7.5% chance to trigger a skill check respectively. While that makes these addons really useful for stopping people from waking up without needing friends, and makes waking up a lot harder when everyone is in the dream, the fact remains that engaging in chases is still problematic, as he has nothing to help him deal with pallets.

These addons are technically powerful, but getting a quick hit before survivors find a loop is just better.

3. Kid's Drawing/Nancy's Sketch/Nancy's Masterpiece:

I've never used any of these addons. Freddy's power has enough range as it is. These are situationally useful at best, and just plain bad at worst.

4. Outdoor Rope/Jump Rope/Swing Chains:

All of these addons reduce the survivor's action speed by a pretty remarkable amount, which could technically be useful when getting everyone in the dream and stalling the exit gates or even generators, but this strategy basically requires use of the aforementioned dresses in order to make sure that people stay in the dream. Great for stalling doors though, as long as everyone's in the dream, as breaking the dream is pretty difficult at that point. However, if your plan is to stall the game out using these addons, you'd be better off using 2 blocks and noed, that way on the offchance they do break the dream, you can still get a clutch hit and aren't forced to let the survivors walk out the while you wait for your power.

5. Misc. Addons; Pill Bottle/Class Photo/Red Paint Brush/Black Box:

Let's start with Black Box. It's bad. Once you find your obsession at the start of the game, assuming it's value was acquired, It's usefulness is expended once you hook them for the first time. While a free hook on your obsession sounds cool, that's all it gives you. Better off using Class Photo.

Speaking of Class Photo, it gives you vision of every single survivor on the map when you put someone in the dream transition, but as a result, it makes the transition last 2 seconds longer. This is a powerful effect, as it helps freddy make sure he can get everyone in the dream. But when you run this addon, you have to consider; What else do you use? Do you use a block addon to try and reduce the amount of time the transition takes, in order to make chases less painful? Or do you use a Dress in order to reduce the likelihood of the suvivors waking up on their own, and maybe make the transition a bit longer to get more time to see the suvivors? Or maybe just use a Nancy's Masterpiece, for some reason. Sure, most of these work to help you get vision on survivors, but they don't really make actually hitting/killing them any easier. It makes the transistion a whopping 9 seconds long without any blocks, making actually chasing people a nightmare.

Next up we got Pill Bottle, which is actually a pretty strong mindgaming tool. If you combine it with a Z block, you'll be down to a 5 second transition, and it'll force them to randomly throw down pallets hoping you're right on top of them. Helpful for avoiding getting rekt by pallet loops, and making that free hit after the dream transition just a litte more free. Plus, it's super satisfying to use.

Now here's an intersting albeit still not useful addon, the Red Painbrush.This little guy reduces the transition by 2 seconds, which is good, and also hugely reduces his terror radius. Both of these are tremendously powerful effects, but that's where the upsides of this item ends. It also reduces Freddy's movement speed, which is very bad when trying to chase someone after a transition. Theoretically, you could use Paint Thinner in combination with this addon to somewhat mitigate his reduced movement speed, but you could acquire the same effect using a z block. The terror radius reduction is nice for keeping track of people through walls, and mindgaming them during chases, but it just doesn't compensate for his reduced speed.


Conclusion

Many of Freddy's addons just don't even come close to matching up to the power of reducing the dream transition, since running Z block + Unicorn block basically guarantees a free hit after a 3.5 second transition, and while you don't get as much free vision as you would using class photo or other addons to keep people in the transition, you get free hits that make chases much easier, last less time, and you still have the ability to get clutch hits after the gates are powered. While it is funny to see how slowly survivors perform actions while using both a jump rope and a swing chain, or making the obsession D/C when you use black box, they just don't provide nearly as consistent of results as the blocks, and I feel that is problematic.

Yea, most killers have some combination of addons that are stronger than most, but their weaker addons still have a distinct function that can be more useful than their optimal combo. Trapper Gloves are still pretty good, Huntress' status effects can still shut down survivors if you can deal with a slower windup, and Nurse doesn't always need 3 blinks if you know what you're doing. Hell, some killers don't even need addons to at least get 2 kills, so I don't see why Freddy has to rely on 2-3 of his addons so much.

Anyway, that's all. I'd really like to see what other people think about freddy's current state of addons. I think they can be situationally useful, but generally they just don't do as much work as his blocks. Thanks for reading.

I reacently found out that the movementspeed addons just increased the movementspeed while channeling your power nothing else....

[DuoMasterMarv]

thanks for necro'ing the thread.

[Cactipus]

Yea, most of this is pretty irrelevant now. Range addons are alright, move speed addons affect movement speed after pulling someone in, unless this last patch changed something. block addons and class photo are still probably the best imo, but range addons can be viable if you use em right.