STBFL and PWYF are unused and useless these days

[eric2bezrukov]

this perk would be more often used if they could bring the timer down to 10 secs or no timer at all like it was before.....the meyers perks were good until the devs nerfed them to their grave remember PWYF...do they even test their changes?! :/

[Wolf]

A perfect example of how killer perks are treated in general.
Just one "balancing nerf" and they are trashed.
Sprint Burst got "nerfed" 4 or 5 times and is still one of the most used survivor perks.

[eric2bezrukov]

Originally posted by sturmwolf74:

A perfect example of how killer perks are treated in general.
Just one "balancing nerf" and they are trashed.
Sprint Burst got "nerfed" 4 or 5 times and is still one of the most used survivor perks.

sadly thats exact the point... but why the treat them like this ?

[Wolf]

There is a brandrew Q&A thread, go ask a Dev.
I already did that,but the more the merrier. ^^

[dylan the jewish guy]

I almost always run PWYF, since it provides a lot of utility.

STBFL is a pathetic joke of a perk, but it's good on the Doctor, exclusively. The time spent following and shocking someone in treatment mode can be used to build up STBFL, then swapping to punishment mode and finishing the job can be very effective. Now, if there were only a reason to play the Doctor. In other words, the Doctor justifies using STBFL, but nothing justifies using the Doctor, since he's the worst killer in the game.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by dylan the jewish guy:

I almost always run PWYF, since it provides a lot of utility.

Serious?
Why?
I consider it a trash perk.

[dylan the jewish guy]

Originally posted by sturmwolf74:

Originally posted by dylan the jewish guy:

I almost always run PWYF, since it provides a lot of utility.

Serious?
Why?
I consider it a trash perk.

Remember that pallet looper? I don't, either, with 3 stacks of PWYF. Sure, it sucks if the obsession refuses to run or disconnects, or is stealthy, but otherwise, it's very useful, I've found. It also helps reduce the pallet chase problem significantly with any number of stacks, as per:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1291816880495063587/
The chase time between pallet is reduced drastically with increased killer movement speed. Which is why there's a PWYF nerf scheduled, actually, according to a few devstreams ago, since people were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about Bloodlust stacking with PWYF.

[Mesemir]

Originally posted by dylan the jewish guy:

Originally posted by sturmwolf74:

Serious?
Why?
I consider it a trash perk.

Remember that pallet looper? I don't, either, with 3 stacks of PWYF. Sure, it sucks if the obsession refuses to run or disconnects, or is stealthy, but otherwise, it's very useful, I've found. It also helps reduce the pallet chase problem significantly with any number of stacks, as per:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1291816880495063587/
The chase time between pallet is reduced drastically with increased killer movement speed. Which is why there's a PWYF nerf scheduled, actually, according to a few devstreams ago, since people were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about Bloodlust stacking with PWYF.

This perk is so situational that i dont thinbk its worth the slot. You need to find your obsession over and over again to benefit from it. And each time you find it you need to give up to get someone else. True if you are lucky ot play against bad survs it may work but there is too many ,,if'' in this to be put in main build.

[Wolf]

Originally posted by Mesemir:

Originally posted by dylan the jewish guy:

Remember that pallet looper? I don't, either, with 3 stacks of PWYF. Sure, it sucks if the obsession refuses to run or disconnects, or is stealthy, but otherwise, it's very useful, I've found. It also helps reduce the pallet chase problem significantly with any number of stacks, as per:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1291816880495063587/
The chase time between pallet is reduced drastically with increased killer movement speed. Which is why there's a PWYF nerf scheduled, actually, according to a few devstreams ago, since people were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about Bloodlust stacking with PWYF.

This perk is so situational that i dont thinbk its worth the slot. You need to find your obsession over and over again to benefit from it. And each time you find it you need to give up to get someone else. True if you are lucky ot play against bad survs it may work but there is too many ,,if'' in this to be put in main build.

I'm with Mesemir on this.
To many "ifs" for only few reward for considering this perk useful.
For me it's still a trash perk.
Which is a shame, because all the perks that encourage the killer to keep a certain survivor alive should be more powerful, because that survivor could work with it.
If the perk is really powerful, the obsession could kinda fight back.He could do the rescues and stuff like that just because he knows that he can take the risk, because the killer wants to kill him last.
That is or was (or could be) a great dynamic factor in the gameplay.
But atm it is not, because the obsession perks are all trash now.

[dylan the jewish guy]

Originally posted by Mesemir:

Originally posted by dylan the jewish guy:

Remember that pallet looper? I don't, either, with 3 stacks of PWYF. Sure, it sucks if the obsession refuses to run or disconnects, or is stealthy, but otherwise, it's very useful, I've found. It also helps reduce the pallet chase problem significantly with any number of stacks, as per:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1291816880495063587/
The chase time between pallet is reduced drastically with increased killer movement speed. Which is why there's a PWYF nerf scheduled, actually, according to a few devstreams ago, since people were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about Bloodlust stacking with PWYF.

This perk is so situational that i dont thinbk its worth the slot. You need to find your obsession over and over again to benefit from it. And each time you find it you need to give up to get someone else. True if you are lucky ot play against bad survs it may work but there is too many ,,if'' in this to be put in main build.

Originally posted by sturmwolf74:

Originally posted by Mesemir:

This perk is so situational that i dont thinbk its worth the slot. You need to find your obsession over and over again to benefit from it. And each time you find it you need to give up to get someone else. True if you are lucky ot play against bad survs it may work but there is too many ,,if'' in this to be put in main build.

I'm with Mesemir on this.
To many "ifs" for only few reward for considering this perk useful.
For me it's still a trash perk.
Which is a shame, because all the perks that encourage the killer to keep a certain survivor alive should be more powerful, because that survivor could work with it.
If the perk is really powerful, the obsession could kinda fight back.He could do the rescues and stuff like that just because he knows that he can take the risk, because the killer wants to kill him last.
That is or was (or could be) a great dynamic factor in the gameplay.
But atm it is not, because the obsession perks are all trash now.

Which is why I don't go looking for my obsession, over and over again. It's just a dead giveaway that I'm running PWYF. I'd rather have my obsession think that I'm a moron who runs STBFL and give me stacks of PWYF, than think that I'm someone who's letting them escape for PWYF stacks.

I use it as an enabler perk that works passively. It may not help at all at times, but even a single stack can be the difference between a kill and an escape at a given moment. It's also great that I run it on the Wraith, where I can cloak/uncloak quickly for a PWYF stack or two if I've found my obsession. On a M&A Myers, it's also easy to build stacks in this manner. On a Doctor while in treatment mode, it's also relatively easy to build stacks while shocking people, and that helps out his ability as well.

I used to go for the holy grail of perks on my Wraith - Brutal Strength, Whispers, NOED, and an interchangeable 4th perk, generally Lightborn against flashlights or the old STBFL otherwise. But, ever since I've been running PWYF, I've noticed a considerable QoL improvement in the experience I have with my Wraith and Myers. To counter the loss of points I receive from a more fun-oriented build, I've been running Distressing and Hex: Thrill of the Hunt on my Wraith to round out the numbers and let me do as I please. Coupled with Insidious for BT countering and other fun utility, I've found that I can occasionally enjoy playing the Wraith, as opposed to it being a perpetual chore. But, I suppose that's just my opinion and experience, not a proven point or definitive fact.

The point is, I use it in a way that doesn't only work against bad survivors. Orienting gameplay around a single perk never works well for killers, unless it's NOED or the old Iron Grasp. This is especially the case with removable perks like obsession and hex totem based perks. It's not a question of 'how powerful of a perk is PWYF?'. It's a question of 'how much does it end up helping out in my current playstyle?'. And my answer to that question is: 'enough to warrant running it over one of those holy grail perks'.

Plus, not all obsession perks are trash. Dying Light with a green/pink mori is an amazing strat, if not very resource intensive.

Back to the main topic of the thread: STBFL is useless about 95% of the time, apart from in one or two fringe builds. So, it's a trash perk that isn't worth running, and needs a buff. PWYF is arguably worth running, even after 3 separate nerfs, but not good enough to where the devs should go through with their planned nerf to it. I'd appreciate a buff to PWYF, but we know that won't happen, because the devs do not like to do anything that involves 'buffing' and 'killer perks' at the same time. I can count the number of killer perks buffed into RELEVANCE on one hand: IG (but then it was nerfed back to how it used to be so it doesn't count), UR (but then it was nerfed back to uselessness so it doesn't count), Brutal Strength, Hex: Ruin, and Hex: Thrill of the Hunt. So, there are 5 total, only 3 of which count because they haven't been reverted YET. The only longstanding one of those is the buff to Brutal Strength, and we all know that the Hex: Ruin/Hex: Thrill of the Hunt combo is going to get nerfed soon somehow because of all the people complaining about it. So, counting Brutal Strength as 1 perk and the Hex: Ruin/Hex: Thrill of the Hunt combo as 1 perk since Hex: Ruin is worthless without Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, that's only 2 killer perks buffed into relevance. Ever. And don't even get me started on how nerfs to survivor perks haven't ever taken them out of the picture, with the exception of Small Game.

[Raptorrotas]

STBFL has too many conditions for activating. Obsession+ chasetime + cooldown...
they should get rid of atleast one of the conditions, but if they removed the obsession part they should make a new obsession perk for myers and turn stbfl into some common perk for every killer.

[dylan the jewish guy]

Originally posted by Raptorrotas:

STBFL has too many conditions for activating. Obsession+ chasetime + cooldown...
they should get rid of atleast one of the conditions, but if they removed the obsession part they should make a new obsession perk for myers and turn stbfl into some common perk for every killer.

I like that, scrapping STBFL as the Shape's teachable and giving him a decent perk and making STBFL an all-killer perk. However, with the Shape being licensed and all that, I don't know if that'd be allowed. Changing the perk would be one thing, but scrapping it and adding another might have some legal bearing on the use of the Shape in DbD, and I'd hate to see the Shape disappear for a perk rework.

Additionally, how would it work for people who've already unlocked STBFL as a teachable? What about STBFL, currently on the Shrine of Secrets?

Based on your mentioned ideas, I'd say to remove the cooldown, which I view as being the part where every bit of progress towards building up STBFL is removed in 5 seconds of not being in a chase.

[call me handsome]

Originally posted by sturmwolf74:

A perfect example of how killer perks are treated in general.
Just one "balancing nerf" and they are trashed.
Sprint Burst got "nerfed" 4 or 5 times and is still one of the most used survivor perks.

All survivor perks get nerfed with extremely soft hand, while killer perk gets touched once and it will be unusable.

[eric2bezrukov]

Originally posted by Mesemir:

Originally posted by dylan the jewish guy:

Remember that pallet looper? I don't, either, with 3 stacks of PWYF. Sure, it sucks if the obsession refuses to run or disconnects, or is stealthy, but otherwise, it's very useful, I've found. It also helps reduce the pallet chase problem significantly with any number of stacks, as per:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1291816880495063587/
The chase time between pallet is reduced drastically with increased killer movement speed. Which is why there's a PWYF nerf scheduled, actually, according to a few devstreams ago, since people were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about Bloodlust stacking with PWYF.

This perk is so situational that i dont thinbk its worth the slot. You need to find your obsession over and over again to benefit from it. And each time you find it you need to give up to get someone else. True if you are lucky ot play against bad survs it may work but there is too many ,,if'' in this to be put in main build.

THATS THE MAIN PROBLEM...you just couldnt not anymore stack it fast up and than continue your hunt as it was before....sad imo

[call me handsome]

Originally posted by The Punisher:

Originally posted by Mesemir:

This perk is so situational that i dont thinbk its worth the slot. You need to find your obsession over and over again to benefit from it. And each time you find it you need to give up to get someone else. True if you are lucky ot play against bad survs it may work but there is too many ,,if'' in this to be put in main build.

THATS THE MAIN PROBLEM...you just couldnt not anymore stack it fast up and than continue your hunt as it was before....sad imo

PWYF was slightly OP before and it should have been nerfed BUT they overly nerfed it massively, not only they reduced speed gained from tokens, they also added that ridiculously high cooldown. If they did just either one of those it would be okay perk.

Currently PWYF can only be worth a perk slot if your obsession comes to t-bag you whole round and you keep chasing other people