Why do people say you shouldn't use STBFL on killers like Demo?

[Harvest Valley Dark Souls 2]

Like why is it bad to use an M1 perk just cause a killer has an M2 that deals damage?
Sure if you primarily use M2s I can understand trading it out for something else but to act like you're a fake gamer or just automatically bad cause you used a M1 perk seems odd to me.

Is STBFL viewed as only worthwhile on killers who can't M2 damage or something?

[Cheerows]

I could probably get married with a billionaire before I please gamers

[Facu]

I think that is better with killers that can damage the obs with a m2 like Demo, Nemesis for example cause you have the chances to not lose stacks. Its better in some killers? Yeah sure, i wouldnt reaccomend it for a Huntress cause yknow we have axes to trow.

[★ Møndhirsch ★]

Players who say STBFL is bad on Demo either think you'll use his Power too rare when going for M1 hits (= making him more like a M1 Killer without Power) or they just repeat what Otzdarva says.

I'd say use the perks on Demo that feel right to you and that you have had good results with.

Personally I think STBFL is an awesome Perk on Demo since Survivors tend to run sharp Loops to avoid Demo using his Shred. Furthermore hitting a Survivor with STBFL (multiple Stacks) can result to the Survivors not leaving your Shred-Range in time which can lead to an Insta-Down,

[Rabbit]

If anything STBFL is stronger on killers that also have a m2 attack. If you make sure to only m2 the obsession and use your m1s on others you'll rack of max stacks and not lose them for silly reasons

[Harvest Valley Dark Souls 2]

Originally posted by ★ Møndhirsch ★:

Players who say STBFL is bad on Demo either think you'll use his Power too rare when going for M1 hits (= making him more like a M1 Killer without Power) or they just repeat what Otzdarva says.

I'd say use the perks on Demo that feel right to you and that you have had good results with.

Personally I think STBFL is an awesome Perk on Demo since Survivors tend to run sharp Loops to avoid Demo using his Shred. Furthermore hitting a Survivor with STBFL (multiple Stacks) can result to the Survivors not leaving your Shred-Range in time which can lead to an Insta-Down,

I see. What did Otz say about it?

[★ Møndhirsch ★]

Originally posted by Shiro:

Originally posted by ★ Møndhirsch ★:

Players who say STBFL is bad on Demo either think you'll use his Power too rare when going for M1 hits (= making him more like a M1 Killer without Power) or they just repeat what Otzdarva says.

I'd say use the perks on Demo that feel right to you and that you have had good results with.

Personally I think STBFL is an awesome Perk on Demo since Survivors tend to run sharp Loops to avoid Demo using his Shred. Furthermore hitting a Survivor with STBFL (multiple Stacks) can result to the Survivors not leaving your Shred-Range in time which can lead to an Insta-Down,

I see. What did Otz say about it?

Otz said STBFL is a bad Perk on Demo because you waste more time going for M1 Attacks than for trying good Shreds.

But Otz also says DS is still strong so meh...
I often agree with Otz but not on this two points.

[Harvest Valley Dark Souls 2]

Originally posted by ★ Møndhirsch ★:

Originally posted by Shiro:

I see. What did Otz say about it?

Otz said STBFL is a bad Perk on Demo because you waste more time going for M1 Attacks than for trying good Shreds.

But Otz also says DS is still strong so meh...
I often agree with Otz but not on this two points.

That just sounds like a case of bad game sense. If it's smarter or quicker to go for a shred you'd go for a shred. You don't suddenly forget how to M2 just because you have an M1 perk.

Just seems to be another case of "You're not meant to M1 with this killer with an M2 attack."

[glythe]

Originally posted by Shiro:

Like why is it bad to use an M1 perk just cause a killer has an M2 that deals damage?
Sure if you primarily use M2s I can understand trading it out for something else but to act like you're a fake gamer or just automatically bad cause you used a M1 perk seems odd to me.

Is STBFL viewed as only worthwhile on killers who can't M2 damage or something?

You have that backwards. STBFL is S tier on killers that can reliably use their power to injure the obsession.

The thing is that against actually good survivors you will not get reliable power hits with PH, or Trapper and are often forced to burn stacks. STBFL shines the best when you can comfortably stay at 8 stacks. If you are CMWinter you can do the same thing with Pig but basically almost nobody plays pig on that level so let's leave Pig out of the discussion .And while Alien also has a similar style attack it feels clumsier and weaker to me (note I have played 90% nemesis games over the last year or so).

Otz is a great entertainer but he honestly needs more practice with Nemesis. He goes for meme whips instead of actually learning when to whip so you cannot be avoided. You can see this when he tries to whip through windows where you can throw hatchets with huntress.

I love the Otz stream and catch it whenever I have time; he's a great entertainer and a very skilled player overall. He's "pretty good" on Demo but Bronx is much better (late night USA streamer)

The thing is you're better off having the option to have 8 stacks on demo as you can shred whenever you feel like it. In this regard Nemesis and Demo share one key similarity in that if you are good you can get power hits on most players. Some players are just wizards and you have to M1.

Demo and Nemesis are unique in that they can save stacks AND instantly break pallets with no addons. Just Imagine for a moment if Legion auto broke pallets while vaulting them as base kit.

Originally posted by ★ Møndhirsch ★:

Originally posted by Shiro:

What did Otz say about it?

Otz said STBFL is a bad Perk on Demo because you waste more time going for M1 Attacks than for trying good Shreds.

When you watch the people that play Demo in about 40% of their games or call themselves a Demo main do you know that they often pick STBFL? I trust Bronx more than Otz as Bronx has a lot more play time with Demo (and overall performs better).

Bronx is a fan of STBFL with Demo but can get good shreds without it.

[leader cocaine]

STBFL is a classic demo perk
if you like it on him nobody is surprised
if someone doesnt like it on him
thats their choice dont worry about them

[Echorion]

This comes up a lot because people misinterpret what a lot of the big demo mains say. As a demo main myself let me clarify:

STBFL is one of Demo's strongest perks.

However using STBFL right off the bat encourages learning players into not using his shred as much; and when learning demo you need to learn how to use shred often and well through practice.

Things like learning a partial shred timing, how to corner hug and pre charge accordingly, what you can slide on, etc... you won't learn any of this if you are just going M1 ham on people.

That being said, once you have demo foundations down, you are using shred often, it's a very very strong perk on Demo that even the best players run from time to time. Some take it off for other builds just because the same builds can be boring for folks who have like 1000+ hours in a single killer.

Being able to m1 someone and then immediately shred them before they can get anywhere is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong, so if anyone says STBFL is bad on him they do not play Demo much or are most likely regurgitating what they thought some streamer was saying because they misunderstood themselves.

TLDR; It's one of Demo's strongest perks, I personally do not recommend using it while learning him however.

[tuna_fan68]

I think you're paying too much attention to purist arguments when it really doesn't matter at all. People also say proxy camping and tunneling = bad too, but then you see comp players or streamers tryharding doing it incessantly.

Just play it if it fits you. ultimately it's a matter of playstyle on whether it gives you value or not, it's not absolute.

The people saying not to run it just don't find it valuable for their own games, but don't let that discourage you from trying it to see different results

[JustinGayme.TTV]

Originally posted by Shiro:

Like why is it bad to use an M1 perk just cause a killer has an M2 that deals damage?
Sure if you primarily use M2s I can understand trading it out for something else but to act like you're a fake gamer or just automatically bad cause you used a M1 perk seems odd to me.

Is STBFL viewed as only worthwhile on killers who can't M2 damage or something?

what's a fake gamer?

Also just play what you like and / or what works for you and is fun.

If youre looking for the meta build or something Im sure they are out there. I havent looked. Wish i could help!

[Harvest Valley Dark Souls 2]

Originally posted by JustinGayme.TTV:

Originally posted by Shiro:

Like why is it bad to use an M1 perk just cause a killer has an M2 that deals damage?
Sure if you primarily use M2s I can understand trading it out for something else but to act like you're a fake gamer or just automatically bad cause you used a M1 perk seems odd to me.

Is STBFL viewed as only worthwhile on killers who can't M2 damage or something?

what's a fake gamer?

Also just play what you like and / or what works for you and is fun.

If youre looking for the meta build or something Im sure they are out there. I havent looked. Wish i could help!

As far as I know meta builds are typically a bunch of gen slowdown and I'm just not interested in that playstyle.

Anyways there was some guy on youtube claiming that only fake demo mains use STBFL and other people seem to think it's bad on him.

[DaSh]

I use STBFL on multiple killers but usually on Trickster and Deathslinger especially, they can both injure survivors with the M2 ability but Deathslinger can't down with m2 really, so not as good but I still like it on him. TBF Demo's M2 is sorta hard to consistently land, so I can see why others would think it's not the best on him.
I'd say to experiment to find out what works for you and ignore people that have a problem with it though.

[State Line Crosser]

You already got good answers from glythe and echorion so I'll just summarise two reasons:
1. You don't learn all the odd ways you can use your power when you have a strong m1 attack.
2. Good players will know that you want to use your power for stacks and will make it almost impossible to do so.