So... The Generator Update... Thoughts?

[Winterwolf]

So... what do both sides of the Aisle think about this generator update coming up?

How killers can only kick a gen 8x before it can no longer be kicked and how survivors can no longer gen tap?

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by T4NKIncredible Wheel of Cheese:

Originally posted by Jester:

I still dont get how setting Eruption would count as its own event
Its like if a wall crumbles because you set a bomb next to it without the bomb going boom

When you kick the gen that's one regression event, and Eruption is applied.

When you down a survivor, the gen loses 10% due to Eruption and that's a second regression event.

Yes, but State is saying that applying Eruption is its own regression event, thereby making every kick with Eruption cost 2 on a gen

[Onichan]

Originally posted by glythe:

You are dead wrong. Kicking the gens is usually meaningless and making it so that kicks dont matter after 8 hits makes the game even more survivor sided.

Pop Goes the Weasel doesn't agree with this and is one of the strongest killer perks rn.

Originally posted by glythe:

Do you remember in year 3 when the devs decided that survivors can heal twice and never a third time? What happened to that idea? The answer in case you don't know is : survivors didn't like it.

that wasn't even okay balance wise, let's be dead honest. Having longer healing times and a way to slow the healing down is way more healthy. This is something different.

Originally posted by glythe:

Nobody wants an hour long game *but* the pre-nerf Pain res/Pop meta was good for the game because killers could stop gen rushing and had basically equal tools.

new Pain Res is also very good, because it helps maintain the early game pressure very well due to 25% of total progress regression. Current Pop is basically almost on par with older powerful version (before the initial nerf), making those two most powerful slowdown perks, together with Corrupt (which is now basically a must for killers) and NWO.

Originally posted by glythe:

All of the regression perks do less now than they did before (in before you say Pain res - remember in the past I could hook the same person three times for 45% regression).

yes, they do less, but in the current pub environment, it's pretty balanced due to porr SBMM and healing meta significantly impacted.
However, the imbalance at the top tier skill level is quite big (in survivors favor), but in those skill levels (comp DbD scene), survivors have some severe restrictions put on their kits in order to balance everything out.

Originally posted by glythe:

The problem with DBD right now is that survivors are allowed to tunnel generators but we are making crazy nerfs to killer so that it's "illegal" to tunnel survivors.

main problem on pub DbD scene is that players with their skill level just around soft MMR cap are basically stuck trying to learn some more in-depth things about DbD.
Survivor side is stuck learning the counterplay to tunneling and camping, two strategies that get destroyed by high skill players.
Killer side is stuck learning the counterplay to "genrushing/gen tunneling" in terms of learning how to be excellent at putting map pressure, which is much more complicated thing to learn.

[[T4NK]Incredible Wheel of Cheese]

Originally posted by Jester:

Originally posted by T4NKIncredible Wheel of Cheese:

When you kick the gen that's one regression event, and Eruption is applied.

When you down a survivor, the gen loses 10% due to Eruption and that's a second regression event.

Yes, but State is saying that applying Eruption is its own regression event, thereby making every kick with Eruption cost 2 on a gen

No, you just misunderstood what they were saying. They were talking about the proc when you down someone.

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by T4NKIncredible Wheel of Cheese:

Originally posted by Jester:

Yes, but State is saying that applying Eruption is its own regression event, thereby making every kick with Eruption cost 2 on a gen

No, you just misunderstood what they were saying. They were talking about the proc when you down someone.

Check State's original post, they say Eruption + Surge could result in 4 regression events, which includes afflicting the gen with Eruption before downing a survivor

[Weruat]

Originally posted by State Line Crosser:

Originally posted by MegaMrFreeman:

4? Are you kidding? We're not talking about ONLY the kicks, we're talking about perks too lol

People are really fixating on the gen kicking misinfo. Depending on how they count events you could do 4 hits in one action. Kick -> eruption set -> down into surge and eruption proc -> pain res. Best case scenario that's 3 if surge and eruption are considered simultaneous.

It's not misinfo, people mostly know its regression event. If you are running into this issue frequently, change up your perks. Pop and Pain rez are amazing atm, deadlock is still great and Grim Embrace is looking amazing. If you are frequently hittin 8 regression events then this change is focused towards that playstyle. But the average killer will avsolutely not notice the change.

[Weruat]

Originally posted by Scarlataria:

It will make the game more boring ever and cut down what we see even more. Each change seems to make the game more specific. The changes will help take out the less used perks and switch the meta slightly. But we will just see more tunnlling by the same killers than ever.

That really isn't going to be much of a change. That's the standard, that's the natural evolution of a 1v4 game in the first place. I don't know who you're trying to threaten? I think BHVR's goal with this change was very obvious, and I think it's a great change in general since it really only affects the issue they were targetting. For every other killer they just get an awesome buff to gen kicking and survivors can no longer tap to remove regression. Buffs all around.

[[T4NK]Incredible Wheel of Cheese]

Originally posted by Jester:

Originally posted by T4NKIncredible Wheel of Cheese:

No, you just misunderstood what they were saying. They were talking about the proc when you down someone.

Check State's original post, they say Eruption + Surge could result in 4 regression events, which includes afflicting the gen with Eruption before downing a survivor

This is what they said:

Kick -> eruption set -> down into surge and eruption proc -> pain res. Best case scenario that's 3 if surge and eruption are considered simultaneous.

So there's 4 regressions events here:

* Kick
* Surge proc
* Eruption proc
* Pain res

If surge and eruption "combine" into one regression event then this chain of events is 3 distinct regression events, otherwise it is 4.

[Weruat]

Originally posted by Scarlataria:

Excuse me ,"threatening"? Are you mistaking my outlook on life for your own, or just trying to troll and provoke me? Its a forum. These are my views, which are based on playing from 2016. If you don't agree or like them, that is your prerogative. BHVR no doubt have their own views based on their data and goals. I'm talking as a player, not a shareholder or yeah sayer.

I'm saying I've seen a bunch of people saying there will be more tunneling, but again, tunnelling is just the natural evolution of playstyles in a 1v4. At the end of the day the best way to win is to remove 1 person since it weakens the balance. Ultimately I wouldn't be upset since it's a sensical way to play, unlike 3 genning from the start of the match, which was only possible because of a bunch of bad balance decisions happening in a row and stacking on top of eachother which has been nerfed repeatedly, but people still continue to play like that and BHVR is now putting the final nail in the coffin.

[Server Jester]

Originally posted by T4NKIncredible Wheel of Cheese:

Originally posted by Jester:

Check State's original post, they say Eruption + Surge could result in 4 regression events, which includes afflicting the gen with Eruption before downing a survivor

This is what they said:

Kick -> eruption set -> down into surge and eruption proc -> pain res. Best case scenario that's 3 if surge and eruption are considered simultaneous.

So there's 4 regressions events here:

* Kick
* Surge proc
* Eruption proc
* Pain res

If surge and eruption "combine" into one regression event then this chain of events is 3 distinct regression events, otherwise it is 4.

i somehow missed pain res
covid is a ♥♥♥♥♥

[[T4NK]Incredible Wheel of Cheese]

Originally posted by Jester:

i somehow missed pain res
covid is a ♥♥♥♥♥

All good, just helping clarify. Hope you feel better!

[Bill Waggoner]

Originally posted by Shepherd:

Maybe someone who's played a good bit of the PTB could chime in, but it seems like we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

I have noticed that people making videos on the PTB haven't really mentioned the gen changes much, which leads me to believe that they aren't too noticeable in a normal game.

They won't be unless you're purposefully stalling, which is exactly what this change is trying to prevent.

I can't think of one single instance where I kicked/perk kicked a single gen 8 times.

[State Line Crosser]

Originally posted by Weruat:

It's not misinfo, people mostly know its regression event. If you are running into this issue frequently, change up your perks. Pop and Pain rez are amazing atm, deadlock is still great and Grim Embrace is looking amazing. If you are frequently hittin 8 regression events then this change is focused towards that playstyle. But the average killer will avsolutely not notice the change.

It absolutely is misinformation. You can hit the cap without ever kicking a single gen. You can hit the cap on every generator without kicking any of them. Saying "lmao I don't kick gen 8 time" is not accurately describing the situation.

I specifically mentioned some perks that are getting the worst deal in the new system. There are others impacted as well (does a knight ever want to use guards on a gen again?). I'm aware that the best perks and the new best perks are great at circumventing the system. The concern is that they didn't address all of the problems with their system and I don't see many people talking about it. Nobody talks about it and nothing changes going to live.

I've not seen anyone talk about or test the changes on the PTB (I'm lazy so I don't do it either). Otz tried to but it was bugged day one. You may be right that it's unnoticeable but as far as I know that remains to be seen. On paper at least, you can get about half of the charges pretty easily. Which means that when survivors make a mistake and build a 3 gen they've also probably got a few gens that are about to be immune.

[Ice Nine Kills]

Originally posted by glythe:

Originally posted by Onichan:

it's a very healthy change for both sides, since 60min matches are definitely not possible anymore. Not to mention that it's basically impossible to reach 8x regression events on a single gens with the meta regression perks (Pop and Pain Res)

You are dead wrong. Kicking the gens is usually meaningless and making it so that kicks dont matter after 8 hits makes the game even more survivor sided.

Do you remember in year 3 when the devs decided that survivors can heal twice and never a third time? What happened to that idea? The answer in case you don't know is : survivors didn't like it.

Nobody wants an hour long game *but* the pre-nerf Pain res/Pop meta was good for the game because killers could stop gen rushing and had basically equal tools.

All of the regression perks do less now than they did before (in before you say Pain res - remember in the past I could hook the same person three times for 45% regression).

Why did we not get the change : toolboxes are sabotage only?

The problem with DBD right now is that survivors are allowed to tunnel generators but we are making crazy nerfs to killer so that it's "illegal" to tunnel survivors.

You are absolutely insane. Anyone kicking gens 8x has already lost, or is just camping a 3gen. I don't think I've ever seen a gen do over 8 regresses in a single match.

It's never been easier to tunnel survivors. Built in BT is useless... and even off the record barely does anything... DS is also useless.

[Blecis74]

My thoughts

8 gen regression events max is an ok way to deal with the 3 gen problem, would have preferred if they'd removed the source of the problem aka Skull Merchant she was the problem and the solution is to remove her, a lot of the perks that caused the issue that a lot of SM's used have been nerfed but if its still a problem best to remove the source of said problem.

Gen tapping I'm glad is going to be gone that should have been removed ages ago it was ridiculous that the killer had to spend 2.5 seconds kicking a gen only for a survivor to prevent it a quarter of a second.

5% gen regression on kick maybe a bit much I'd say 3% is the right amount as long as there's no limit on kicking gens.

Seeing as though they're removing the downside on Hex: Ruin I think they should buff it not back to 200% but to 150%, that way its not too fast and not painfully slow its in the middle.

[Wimwyn]

I like the gen tapping change, but seriously - I carry Overcharge on every killer kit, so at least 1 gen tap is just a free gap closer, since the skill check gets cancelled and it continues regressing. They have to stop a second time or run away to let another survivor get it. Second time you try it I've got my lunge and land the second hit.

8 regression events per generator?
If the overcharge skill check counts as an extra event, I still think I will be OK with 8. I don't use eruption or Surge. I have better things to do like have a fun chase, trying to get that 1 survivor that's loop happy and gives a thrill by throwing as many mind games into the chase as I do. I'd rather chase 1 survivor for 5 generators that stop to kick your generator, it's more fun (to me anyway).

Worried about tunnelling? I hate it, as a survivor and as a killer. It isn't fun at all. If your derpy altruistic buddy is going to drop you off hook while I'm staring at you I'll chase them. If you give me a free second hook, I'll take it, but I don't usually do third hook without at least giving you a chance to heal.

The only thing that throws me into a fit of rage is missing my ranged attacks (if I'm playing a ranged killer) and body blocking saboteurs. I don't care how good you loop, I'll waste the rest of the game chasing you :D