Offerings - A Survivor Sided Mechanic

[Consent]

"The old Ebony Mori could kill survivors off of first down1!1!!!11!!"
Yeah, and the old BNPs could instantly repair generators. You're comparing the wrong things.

Now that we have that put aside, here's my point:

I will first start from a previously removed offering; the Moon Bouquet offerings. These offerings could severely alter the visuals of the game, being able to render Survivors practically invisible in certain situations. Just think of the Garden Of Joy 2nd floor dark spots, and imagine that everywhere. These offerings, just like many others, favored Survivors. Sure, like 2 stealth Killers that existed back then could benefit from it. But even then, it was more helpful for Survivors by a large margin. But sure, it was removed for convenience reasons by the developers.

Now, we have other offerings to give Survivors an edge that the Killer is unable to achieve through offerings:

Luck Offerings - An offering with no counterpart on the Killer side, and a favorite pick for self unhook luck SWFs. Once this offering is brought to the table, there's nothing the Killer can do than to hope that the Survivor doesnt get lucky enough.

Hook Offerings - In a stack of 4, Survivors can increase the average distance between hooks by 4 meters. The counterpart of this as a Killer does a similar thing, reducing the average distance between hooks by 3.5 meters. Now, on solo Survivors, this isnt really a big deal as the Killer can actually still nullify the offering. But if a sabo squad uses this on Midwich, even your own hook offering as a Killer will not be enough to save you from four of these.

Shroud Offerings - Normally, both the Killer and the Survivors have pretty opposite shroud offerings than what they would really want. The Killer can use the Shroud of Separation, which would mean that Survivors would be working at maximum generator efficiency due to being split up, so its quite counterproductive. And the Survivors can use the Shroud of Union / Shroud of Binding to spawn in pairs or as a whole group. Again, counterproductive considering that you're giving the Killer extra pressure if he finds you.

Here's the issue:

The Shroud of Binding combined with Vigo's Shroud (Survivors spawn as far from the Killer as possible) with a Prove Thyself + BNP squad (Again, SWFs, who would have guessed?) can power through a generator before the Killer can even walk towards the other side of the map. The game practically starts with the Survivor objective on 20% completion, and there's nothing you can do to stop it unless you're high mobility Killer.

And now, everyone's favorite:

Map Offerings - Yes, Killers can use map offerings too! And so do they have sacrificial wards, which should make it fair, right?

Right...?

Here's the fundamental problem with Killer and Survivor progression:

As a Survivor, you only need to P1 other survivor characters and just dump all the bloodpoints you have on your main, as there are no different abilities that are character locked. Killers, on the other hand, have to get every Killer to P3, along with needing to dump ridiculous amounts of BP on each of them for addons. I for example play 6 killers mostly. That means for every green medkit you buy, i would need to buy 6 addons to keep up with your utility on an equal level for my killers.

So this means, if a Survivor wants map offerings, they just usually already have them because all their bloodpoints go to one character. And, they always play that one character, so there's not really any reason they will ever run out of said offerings unless they're really spamming those offerings. Killers on the other hand need to spend a lot more bloodpoints among their killer roster to keep up with the number of offerings each Survivor posesses. And the sad part? This includes sacrificial wards.

There's no way that i can have enough sacrificial wards when I'm playing 6 different killers, against 4 survivors.

And considering most maps on the extreme sides are maps that favor Survivors, its pretty damn unfair. Like, what do Killers have?

- Midwich
- Idk, Game if you're Nurse?

And what do Survivors have?

- Red Forest
- Game
- Garden Of Joy
- Red Forest
- Midwich for Sabo
- Lery's

Im hoping you see the imbalance. And on top of this, there's almost ALWAYS an offering from Survivors in every game. It's physically impossible for Killer players to keep up with a mechanic being abused this severely when the only counter to it (sacrificial wards) are already blocked off because of the fact that they have to spread out their bloodpoints across an entire roster.

No, im not roasting Survivors. Im just asking for them to look at this and at least have the honesty to accept that from a MATHEMATICAL standpoint, offerings favor Survivor players.

[Voidlines]

I do think some maps are killer sided depending on builds (antiheal wesker on Midwich for example) But you are right on most of these. When I learned about the moon offerings, as a newer player, I was confused why they were removed until I saw footage of them being used. That was nonsense.

I always wondered why these offerings became so wonky to begin with even when I started. Like, killer has a shroud to separate survivors which is basically asking to lose in the current meta. And like you brought up there's no offering to lower survivor luck or anything luck related for killer, although I feel something that big for the 'power role' would need to be adjusted accordingly depending on what 'luck' would benefit killer.

I always figured with a system like this, survivors should have offerings to give them an edge in certain situations while killer has offerings to completely negate, reduce the edge of certain aspects specifically, and/or create new hazards or whatnot. Not saying it should be that way already or anything, just how I'd see a system like this be used in a game like this.

[Lord Cyphre]

You're right, let'S canacel this game now!

[Consent]

Originally posted by Lord Cyphre:

You're right, let'S canacel this game now!

What a sophisticated exaggerative response to my constructive criticism.

[BougieBlackChickTTV]

I understood everything you said until I got to this paragraph:

“As a Survivor, you only need to P1 other survivor characters and just dump all the bloodpoints you have on your main, as there are no different abilities that are character locked. Killers, on the other hand, have to get every Killer to P3, along with needing to dump ridiculous amounts of BP on each of them for addons. I for example play 6 killers mostly. That means for every green medkit you buy, i would need to buy 6 addons to keep up with your utility on an equal level for my killers.”

Why are you saying you have to P3 all your killers? Are you talking about getting all their perks? Because you can just P1 the killers and use BP to level up their perks in the bloodweb just like survivor. I’m confused cuz you were referring to offerings, so I don’t get where the P3 vs P1 part comes in or the part about needing 6 add-ons to keep up with one green medkit. If you could elaborate I’d appreciate it.

[Lord Cyphre]

Originally posted by cnsnnt:

Originally posted by Lord Cyphre:

You're right, let'S canacel this game now!

What a sophisticated exaggerative response to my constructive criticism.

Your criticism isn't constructive and misses the mark completely.
If a map is survivor sided the map is the problem, not the offering for said map.

Everything else is just needless complaining.

Shroud of binding is actually terrible. Splitting up is far better than grouping up in the same place for survivors, that way the killer can't interrupt everyone at once. That's a good way to snowball pressure and make a team falter as a killer.
The offerings may be hidden but you can still make an educated guess and beeline the furthest gen at the start. You'd lose more gen progress if they actually split at the start and won't have an easy time finding multiple survivors in the same spot presented to you on a silver platter.

You bring up offerings that have been removed years ago. They're not in the game and don't help build your argument whatsoever. They are a non-factor and their removal clearly shows the devs aren't making offerings a survivor sided thing. You make a big fuss over these but quickly glance over old moris who were far more busted. But it doesn't fit your narrative so it needs to be set aside quickly. It'S an offering, not an addon so your comparison is moot and nonsensical. Quite hypocritical.

Same for map offerings. They can help killers just as much as they do survivors, you can't just brush them aside like this. It's not a strictly survivor siuded offering at all and as I mentioned earlier, itr's the maps that are the problem, not the offerings.

Hook offerings and sabo squads. Like really? That means the team isn't very efficient because some people will just follow you around to make plays. So check for them like you wouild flashlights. Or start slugging. Drop the survivor and go for the one saboing the hook. Now someone else has to go pick up the slug while you're chasing. And who's gonna make the sabo play then? And who'S repairing gens in all that kerfuffle?
Teams like this are far easier to beat than tea,ms that split up and do gens. It's an annoyance but one that's easily dealt with.

I have yet to see a stacked luck group. I don't think I've ever seen a streamer go up against a group like this. One or two videos from the survivor perspective.
This dseems like something that's not very comon.
But so what if they dedicqate their whole loadout for sel-unhooks? You could just camp them. Like I don't know what to say, this just isn't something that happens frequently.

It's all just a bunch of onesided complaining is all. Not very constructive.

[Consent]

Originally posted by HEX: Mega-Stuffed:

I understood everything you said until I got to this paragraph:

“As a Survivor, you only need to P1 other survivor characters and just dump all the bloodpoints you have on your main, as there are no different abilities that are character locked. Killers, on the other hand, have to get every Killer to P3, along with needing to dump ridiculous amounts of BP on each of them for addons. I for example play 6 killers mostly. That means for every green medkit you buy, i would need to buy 6 addons to keep up with your utility on an equal level for my killers.”

Why are you saying you have to P3 all your killers? Are you talking about getting all their perks? Because you can just P1 the killers and use BP to level up their perks in the bloodweb just like survivor. I’m confused cuz you were referring to offerings, so I don’t get where the P3 vs P1 part comes in or the part about needing 6 add-ons to keep up with one green medkit. If you could elaborate I’d appreciate it.

At the end of the day, the reason to P3 any character is to save bloodpoints in the bigger picture. The more characters you need to focus on, the more value P3 gets. A survivor is already focusing on one character only, so they simply need to P1 everyone and keep dumping their BP on their one main.

Killers, unless they want to spend 6 million bloodpoints to get every perk for every Killer that gets launched to be able to go through RNG and get Save The Best For Last on that Killer, they need everyone at P3. The point im making is that Killers NEED P3 a lot more than Survivors do.

The reason i mentioned it is:

Every prestige takes roughly 1,300,000 bloodpoints. If i P3 everyone, which is roughly 30 killers and 3 prestiges per killer, im spending roughly 117,000,000 bloodpoints to have every perk for every Killer to begin with. Then, i can focus on the 6 killers that i normally play, and spread out my bloodpoints once again for addons and offerings, just a bit more focused this time.

Compared to this, Survivors need to spend 39,000,000 bloodpoints in total to have everyone on P1, then focus on one character which they main, where they were already going to spend the rest of their bloodpoints on, which passively gives them the perks while they're scavenging for the items.

[skynd-sg]

We don't have the exact data of public matches (speaking for "math"). But we do know that there are some more balanced maps than others (see different DBD tournaments).

However, the Devs aim for an overall killrate of 60%. This killrate cannot be separated with the offerings.

So... even if it would be survivor sided: it doesn't change the fact that the game design aims for a higher winrate towards killers than survivors (which includes that offering mechanic). For every offering there's a counterpart. You mad about the luck offering? Play a mori!

How can you then be that upset about them?

[Consent]

Originally posted by Lord Cyphre:

Originally posted by cnsnnt:

What a sophisticated exaggerative response to my constructive criticism.

Your criticism isn't constructive and misses the mark completely.
If a map is survivor sided the map is the problem, not the offering for said map.

Everything else is just needless complaining.

Shroud of binding is actually terrible. Splitting up is far better than grouping up in the same place for survivors, that way the killer can't interrupt everyone at once. That's a good way to snowball pressure and make a team falter as a killer.
The offerings may be hidden but you can still make an educated guess and beeline the furthest gen at the start. You'd lose more gen progress if they actually split at the start and won't have an easy time finding multiple survivors in the same spot presented to you on a silver platter.

You bring up offerings that have been removed years ago. They're not in the game and don't help build your argument whatsoever. They are a non-factor and their removal clearly shows the devs aren't making offerings a survivor sided thing. You make a big fuss over these but quickly glance over old moris who were far more busted. But it doesn't fit your narrative so it needs to be set aside quickly. It'S an offering, not an addon so your comparison is moot and nonsensical. Quite hypocritical.

Same for map offerings. They can help killers just as much as they do survivors, you can't just brush them aside like this. It's not a strictly survivor siuded offering at all and as I mentioned earlier, itr's the maps that are the problem, not the offerings.

Hook offerings and sabo squads. Like really? That means the team isn't very efficient because some people will just follow you around to make plays. So check for them like you wouild flashlights. Or start slugging. Drop the survivor and go for the one saboing the hook. Now someone else has to go pick up the slug while you're chasing. And who's gonna make the sabo play then? And who'S repairing gens in all that kerfuffle?
Teams like this are far easier to beat than tea,ms that split up and do gens. It's an annoyance but one that's easily dealt with.

I have yet to see a stacked luck group. I don't think I've ever seen a streamer go up against a group like this. One or two videos from the survivor perspective.
This dseems like something that's not very comon.
But so what if they dedicqate their whole loadout for sel-unhooks? You could just camp them. Like I don't know what to say, this just isn't something that happens frequently.

It's all just a bunch of onesided complaining is all. Not very constructive.

The comparison between the old Mori should be with the old BNPs. Its an offering based on objective overclocking. For Killer, you skip hook stages. For Survivor, you skip generator progression.

Also, you're missing the point of bully squads. They are not meant to be efficient, they are meant to bully, as per the title. Just because they are ineffective through to the endgame doesnt mean they arent broken and/or a nuisance.

Also, I'm not skipping over anything because im a "hypocrite".

I gave quite a lenghty mention to the Moon Bouquets. The reason for that is they were for both sides, yet still favored Survivors over Killers. The reason the Mori isnt mentioned for long, is as ive said, you're just comparing it to the wrong thing. Feel free to ask literally anyone else, and they'll say the counterpart to Mori are BNPs.

Now for my final point:

I dont really care about how many maps are survivor and killer sided, that wasnt the main point of my argument for map offerings. It was the sheer difference in the ability for either side to bring one to alter the game's setting into their own favor. The Killer has to keep up with 4 survivors that are extra likely to bring map offerings, since there are more maps that offer advantages to survivors.

+ The Shroud offering is just another SWF strat to start the game with 1/5 gens on 0 hooks. A SWF confident and coordinated enough to try that probably already has failsafes. Either way, its a mechanic that shouldnt exist. That, or the shroud offerings should be reversed; with survivor shrouds increasing the average distance between survivors by a certain amount while the killer shroud straight up merging them all together.

[Consent]

Originally posted by skynd-sg:

We don't have the exact data of public matches (speaking for "math"). But we do know that there are some more balanced maps than others (see different DBD tournaments).

However, the Devs aim for an overall killrate of 60%. This killrate cannot be separated with the offerings.

So... even if it would be survivor sided: it doesn't change the fact that the game design aims for a higher winrate towards killers than survivors (which includes that offering mechanic). For every offering there's a counterpart. You mad about the luck offering? Play a mori!

How can you then be that upset about them?

Luck offerings cant be countered by a mori because you cant unhook yourself on your way to your 3rd hook stage... Lmao.

Also, that 60% killrate includes survivors who sabotage their team, survivors who get theirselves killed due to endgame altruism and survivors who straight up kill theirselves on hook.

Trust me, once all that is accounted for, the killrate is definitely closer to 50%.

And even if not, getting 60 kills instead of 50 out of 100 survivots isnt a horrible statistic.

It still means you can escape 40% of the time. And in a team of 4? That's massive.

[Lord Cyphre]

If you're talking about offerings, youÄre talking about offerings. The Mori isa an offering. It doesn't get a pass in a discussion about offerings. That's some grade A cherry picking.

You can't bully the killer anymore becaue all the tools to bully a killer are pretty much gone. Bully squads are easy to deal with and falter quickly. They're a minor nuisance at times but don't do gens, they're the biggest chance at getting a 4k you'll get.
They can eb really fun to go against because it is all about the chases and not about getting all gens done and oput in 4 m,inutes.
Complaining about this is silly because if you take it away all there's left to do is gens.

Spliting up will easily give them 3 gens on 0-1 hooks. The shroud sucks.

The maps are the problem not the offering.

[Consent]

Originally posted by Lord Cyphre:

If you're talking about offerings, youÄre talking about offerings. The Mori isa an offering. It doesn't get a pass in a discussion about offerings. That's some grade A cherry picking.

You can't bully the killer anymore becaue all the tools to bully a killer are pretty much gone. Bully squads are easy to deal with and falter quickly. They're a minor nuisance at times but don't do gens, they're the biggest chance at getting a 4k you'll get.
They can eb really fun to go against because it is all about the chases and not about getting all gens done and oput in 4 m,inutes.
Complaining about this is silly because if you take it away all there's left to do is gens.

Spliting up will easily give them 3 gens on 0-1 hooks. The shroud sucks.

The maps are the problem not the offering.

The mori does get a pass. Even if it didnt, its balanced. It's been nerfed, same as BNPs. And it has a counterpart item, which are BNPs. Im not here to roast balanced offerings.

Also, you literally did a massive blunder. bully squads are EVERYTHING but chases. Bully squads begin after the chase is over, not during.

- Pallet camping bully squads go for saves after chases
- Flashlight bully squads go for saves after chases
- Sabotage bully squads go for saves after chases

Its not about the chase what-so-ever. Its all about resetting said chase progress.

And usually these people will bring perks like Unbreakable/Exponential/Flip Flop or similar perks to counter slugging.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Lord Cyphre:

Originally posted by cnsnnt:

What a sophisticated exaggerative response to my constructive criticism.

I have yet to see a stacked luck group. I don't think I've ever seen a streamer go up against a group like this. One or two videos from the survivor perspective.
This dseems like something that's not very comon.
But so what if they dedicqate their whole loadout for sel-unhooks? You could just camp them. Like I don't know what to say, this just isn't something that happens frequently.

It's all just a bunch of onesided complaining is all. Not very constructive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0u2AZxNCRc There ya go. Basically if the survivor can self unhook it frees the others to do gens, and if you camp they can self unhook at the last moment to make sure everyone has the maximum gen time.

I do think the offerings are a little imbalanced, just because killer has to decide between map offering, blood point offering, or whatever else while survivors only need to dedicate one out of 4 slots on it.

It really forces you to tunnel early on if you want to apply any pressure at all.

[￭ Yuri ￭]

I haven't read the whole topic (and I won't even read it, since it starts out biased), but anyway it's good for both sides for map offers to be reviewed and maybe have their % reduced, no matter how much there is the offer that cancels the map, nobody have crystal balls for every time to use it as killer or survivor.

And it would also avoid having to change maps in a more specific way or perks like boil over, since they would be more situational around swfs.

[Lord Cyphre]

Originally posted by Silamon:

Originally posted by Lord Cyphre:

I have yet to see a stacked luck group. I don't think I've ever seen a streamer go up against a group like this. One or two videos from the survivor perspective.
This dseems like something that's not very comon.
But so what if they dedicqate their whole loadout for sel-unhooks? You could just camp them. Like I don't know what to say, this just isn't something that happens frequently.

It's all just a bunch of onesided complaining is all. Not very constructive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0u2AZxNCRc There ya go. Basically if the survivor can self unhook it frees the others to do gens, and if you camp they can self unhook at the last moment to make sure everyone has the maximum gen time.

I do think the offerings are a little imbalanced, just because killer has to decide between map offering, blood point offering, or whatever else while survivors only need to dedicate one out of 4 slots on it.

It really forces you to tunnel early on if you want to apply any pressure at all.

I have seen a video of it before, I'm just saying I don't see it happening often.

[Silamon]

Originally posted by Lord Cyphre:

Originally posted by Silamon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0u2AZxNCRc There ya go. Basically if the survivor can self unhook it frees the others to do gens, and if you camp they can self unhook at the last moment to make sure everyone has the maximum gen time.

I do think the offerings are a little imbalanced, just because killer has to decide between map offering, blood point offering, or whatever else while survivors only need to dedicate one out of 4 slots on it.

It really forces you to tunnel early on if you want to apply any pressure at all.

I have seen a video of it before, I'm just saying I don't see it happening often.

Ah, so you were not being entirely accurate in your comment then, thats fine.

Originally posted by Lord Cyphre:

I have yet to see a stacked luck group. I don't think I've ever seen a streamer go up against a group like this. One or two videos from the survivor perspective.