Playing killer feels miserable and here's why.

[pwn3dg4m3r]

Starting off lets look at the killer role then take a look at the survivor role.

For killers the way MMR works and how matches are generally viewed as, a 1k is a loss, 2k is a tie and 3-4k is a win. Now BHVR has stated that they want to keep killers around a 60% kill rate, not win rate but kill rate and this is where the misery of the killer role comes in. (60% sounds like a big number, after all that's more than half but 60% of 4 is only 2.4. That number is so low you can't even round it up to 3, its much closer to just being 2 or 50%.).

In order for the killer to win a match they have to at least get a 3k which means killing 75% of the survivors but if the killers are being kept at a 60% kill rate that means the vast majority of matches will end in a tie or loss, (really just losses cause I don't believe in ties, if you're not getting a win then your just losing.) so already BHVR is setting killers up to vastly under preform.
Now you have to remember that 60% kill rate is across all killers, which means the S-tier killers are largely keeping that number inflated, scoring most of the 3-4k's whiles anything below mid A-tier is getting the majority of the 0-2k's and when the galaxies align maybe a 3k.

But even if we lump all the killers together the numbers still don't look good, these are going to be some rough approximations since we don't have the in-depth stats.
Let's say a killer plays 100 games, of those 100, 60 end in a 2k (just rounding the 2.4 down since you can't kill 2.4th's of a survivor) 15 end in a 1k, and giving the killers a bit of an edge here, 25 games end in a 4k, that comes out to a 58.7 kill rate which is pretty close to the 60% that BHVR wants. This means that killers are only winning 25% of the games they play with 75% being non-winning games.
This right here is why playing killer feels so miserable, because the vast majority of your games are just you breaking even or worse, you rarely get the feeling that you're actually progressing in the role and instead you're just struggling to just keep the status quo.

Now lets look at survivors.

If killers are at a 60% kill rate that means survivors are at a 40% survival rate and 60% death rate, which looks pretty bleak for the poor unsuspecting victims of the Entity until you actual take a look at the numbers.
Being a survivor, you are 1/4th or 25% of your team which means you have a 75% chance of someone other than you being killed first then a 66% chance with 3 people left and a 50% chance with you and the other person being left. Now right off the bat when the match starts since the killer has only a 25% chance of killing 3 or more, the survivors' side has a whopping 75% chance of 2 or more making it out alive.
That means you as a survivor not only have a 75% chance of the game being in your favor but a 75% and a 66% chance of being one of the lucky survivors to make it out and score a victory over the Entity.

This is why playing killer feels so miserable because as a killer it is just you and only you, you have a 100% chance of either being in a 25% chance winning match or a 75% chance losing match. While playing as a survivor feels much more relaxed and stress free because not only do you have a 75% chance of being in a winning match but only have a 25%/33% chance of being killed in that kind of match.

[Intoner]

Nah, get gud, killer nowadays is easy mode

[pwn3dg4m3r]

Originally posted by Intoner:

Nah, get gud, killer nowadays is easy mode

just going to assume you forgot the /s

[Tokogawa [GER]]

Well put. This wont stop people to flood in screaming "MUH SOLO Q" thought.

Also Killers feel miserable (in higher MMR, in low MMR is easy as ♥♥♥♥) because you will almost always trade 1 Hook state for 1 Generator.
That is also the reason you see so many "tunneling LE BAD" Threads since that is becoming the only way to actually kill people effectivly seeing how Proxy camping and Gen Defense is getting nerfed more and more.
Nowadays we have Discussions about how OP STBFL or Sloppy Butcher is, which just shows how gutted all other Killer Perks are. Thats why few runs anything but full Auraread or full Gen regress (with said nerfed Perks) since those Builds are basicly all thats left. I love Stealth Perks but most of the time I can maybe get 1 Grab and 3 Uses of Trail of Torment before the Game is over with me having 5 Hooks

And lets not forget the constant stream of Complains youll get just for playing the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Game as Killer. I could make a bigger Comment about that alone but ill keep it short and say that you will get all sort of Remarks, Complains, Insults and Nitpicking no matter who you play or how. That grinds you mentally unless you turn it into something funny for you or shut it off as good as possible (in other words, anon mode)

[zakular]

Yeah playing killer is unbearable, I want to enjoy it but end up quitting near every match mid game. Just play another game for 30 mins till I can queue again or play surv and enjoy easy mode

[pwn3dg4m3r]

Originally posted by Tokogawa GER:

Well put. This wont stop people to flood in screaming "MUH SOLO Q" thought.

Also Killers feel miserable (in higher MMR, in low MMR is easy as ♥♥♥♥) because you will almost always trade 1 Hook state for 1 Generator.
That is also the reason you see so many "tunneling LE BAD" Threads since that is becoming the only way to actually kill people effectivly seeing how Proxy camping and Gen Defense is getting nerfed more and more.
Nowadays we have Discussions about how OP STBFL or Sloppy Butcher is, which just shows how gutted all other Killer Perks are. Thats why few runs anything but full Auraread or full Gen regress (with said nerfed Perks) since those Builds are basicly all thats left. I love Stealth Perks but most of the time I can maybe get 1 Grab and 3 Uses of Trail of Torment before the Game is over with me having 5 Hooks

And lets not forget the constant stream of Complains youll get just for playing the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Game as Killer. I could make a bigger Comment about that alone but ill keep it short and say that you will get all sort of Remarks, Complains, Insults and Nitpicking no matter who you play or how. That grinds you mentally unless you turn it into something funny for you or shut it off as good as possible (in other words, anon mode)

i completely agree, there's an endless list as to why the killer role has gotten so bad and stale, I wanted to bring up an angle of it that I haven't seen discussed before.

But yes, between BHVR lying about not catering to one side, the constant gutting of any perks to push back against survivors, increase in gen repair speeds and lack of an ability to slow that down, ect. the role has become so un-enjoyable.

I actually find myself having more fun just playing against bots in the custom matches than having to be 100% sweaty all the time just to get a 2k in public matches.

[pwn3dg4m3r]

Originally posted by zakular:

Yeah playing killer is unbearable, I want to enjoy it but end up quitting near every match mid game. Just play another game for 30 mins till I can queue again or play surv and enjoy easy mode

Exactly, as a killer main it's gotten to were I can only play a few matches before it feels like my heart valves are about to blow out before switching to survivor while I watch Hulu half paying attention and still escape.

[Valore]

Originally posted by pwn3dg4m3r:

Originally posted by zakular:

Yeah playing killer is unbearable, I want to enjoy it but end up quitting near every match mid game. Just play another game for 30 mins till I can queue again or play surv and enjoy easy mode

Exactly, as a killer main it's gotten to were I can only play a few matches before it feels like my heart valves are about to blow out before switching to survivor while I watch Hulu half paying attention and still escape.

This is a bad argument, which both sides make.

If you 'main' one side, and just switch to the other for a few games you don't play seriously, your MMR will be trash. Obviously the games will be completely clown shows.

Playing Survivor against a noob Nurse who is learning how to blink is obviously not indicative of how 'easy' Survivor is. Nor is playing against a bunch of noob Survivors who only try to hold W and run into the open for you to chase down.

Those are pointless criteria to make any kind of judgement on the state of game balance.

[pwn3dg4m3r]

Originally posted by Valore:

Originally posted by pwn3dg4m3r:

Exactly, as a killer main it's gotten to were I can only play a few matches before it feels like my heart valves are about to blow out before switching to survivor while I watch Hulu half paying attention and still escape.

This is a bad argument, which both sides make.

If you 'main' one side, and just switch to the other for a few games you don't play seriously, your MMR will be trash. Obviously the games will be completely clown shows.

Playing Survivor against a noob Nurse who is learning how to blink is obviously not indicative of how 'easy' Survivor is. Nor is playing against a bunch of noob Survivors who only try to hold W and run into the open for you to chase down.

Those are pointless criteria to make any kind of judgement on the state of game balance.

Yes my "main" is killer but that doesn't mean I only play a few games as survivor or don't take it seriously, you took my hyperbolic comment as literal.

I probably just have a bit less matches played as survivor than I do killer, whenever my friends are on we all swf it up and will play through the night on the weekends, the weekdays are my killer times.

So even though its anecdotal I have a pretty good feel for how both roles play and its by far a far more relaxed game play style to play as survivor than it is killer.

[zakular]

Originally posted by Valore:

Originally posted by pwn3dg4m3r:

Exactly, as a killer main it's gotten to were I can only play a few matches before it feels like my heart valves are about to blow out before switching to survivor while I watch Hulu half paying attention and still escape.

This is a bad argument, which both sides make.

If you 'main' one side, and just switch to the other for a few games you don't play seriously, your MMR will be trash. Obviously the games will be completely clown shows.

Playing Survivor against a noob Nurse who is learning how to blink is obviously not indicative of how 'easy' Survivor is. Nor is playing against a bunch of noob Survivors who only try to hold W and run into the open for you to chase down.

Those are pointless criteria to make any kind of judgement on the state of game balance.

I don't "main" either side.

[Aneiln]

I've mainly been playing survivor lately and losing more games than I did as killer. The issue for me isn't a matter of wins or losses, but more a matter of killer having no chill time. whereas unless you're being hard tunnelled, there's generally going to be a bit of downtime in the match that lets you destress when the killer is chasing someone else and you just need to do gens.

Winning vs losing isn't what makes the game miserable, but rather whether the actual way the game flows if fun. If losing makes a game miserable to you, it's more a sign that it's either not for you if it's just a problem you have, or the actual fundamental gameplay loop needs looking into if it's widely shared.

[pwn3dg4m3r]

Originally posted by Aneiln:

I've mainly been playing survivor lately and losing more games than I did as killer. The issue for me isn't a matter of wins or losses, but more a matter of killer having no chill time. whereas unless you're being hard tunnelled, there's generally going to be a bit of downtime in the match that lets you destress when the killer is chasing someone else and you just need to do gens.

Winning vs losing isn't what makes the game miserable, but rather whether the actual way the game flows if fun. If losing makes a game miserable to you, it's more a sign that it's either not for you if it's just a problem you have, or the actual fundamental gameplay loop needs looking into if it's widely shared.

It's not about actually being able to get a win or end up losing, it's about since the game is so stacked against the killer that the killer has to struggle just to meet the status quo, that you have to play at 100% pixel perfect sweaty mode or else you can't achieve anything as a killer in a match.
If you try to play chill and relaxed like you can as a survivor you will end up getting bullied and bmed and taken advantage of by the survivors then talked down to in post game chat about how your terrible.

[rexyniknowit TTV]

my advice is play the meta of whatever is popular until they nerf it into the ground and then quit the game between rifts as BHVR has introduced nothing since totems and continues to listen to "comp" players. and that was a long... long time ago. we can see how we got here, it's how every game goes. someone wants a competitive mode and they introduce ranked or match gimmicks to award a win to one side. since an hour long game ending in loss for survivors now limited kicks to gens so they can just win. they just auto win. instead of balancing the game they have continued to allow survivors to come back from the exit in a squad and take people off hooks. this is why you no-ed or just slug and push the people in the exit out of the game.

there are actual survivors in this game with one character p100 and no other survivors played. why would you prestige beyond 3 to share t3 of those perks who knows... but there are people who only play this with the same squad every day.

that is the minority. the average gamer is fed up. survivors who do solo q are sick of getting stomped. killers are sick of endurance, flashlights, pallet hitboxes being atrociously broken, getting stuck in vault after a survivor, and the only solution BHVR has come up with is to nerf how many gen events you can have.


and before anyone says you must do 4% progress of a gen to start it again after damage, that's 1 charge from a toolbox. so yes... they can still tap as we learned in the ptb.

play survivor.

[pwn3dg4m3r]

Originally posted by rexyandiknowityeah:

my advice is play the meta of whatever is popular until they nerf it into the ground and then quit the game between rifts as BHVR has introduced nothing since totems and continues to listen to "comp" players. and that was a long... long time ago. we can see how we got here, it's how every game goes. someone wants a competitive mode and they introduce ranked or match gimmicks to award a win to one side. since an hour long game ending in loss for survivors now limited kicks to gens so they can just win. they just auto win. instead of balancing the game they have continued to allow survivors to come back from the exit in a squad and take people off hooks. this is why you no-ed or just slug and push the people in the exit out of the game.

there are actual survivors in this game with one character p100 and no other survivors played. why would you prestige beyond 3 to share t3 of those perks who knows... but there are people who only play this with the same squad every day.

that is the minority. the average gamer is fed up. survivors who do solo q are sick of getting stomped. killers are sick of endurance, flashlights, pallet hitboxes being atrociously broken, getting stuck in vault after a survivor, and the only solution BHVR has come up with is to nerf how many gen events you can have.


and before anyone says you must do 4% progress of a gen to start it again after damage, that's 1 charge from a toolbox. so yes... they can still tap as we learned in the ptb.

play survivor.

I've just been playing survivor now and having to wait the much longer queue times to get a match is telling of how much people are done with the killer role.

Watching killers now, while I hold LMB on a gen, getting looped around into a pallet stun into a Dead Hard into another pallet stun before finally downing them. Just to get flashlight stunned and have to start the chase all over just to get the down again then get FTP+BU into more loops and pallet stuns is just dishearting to watch.

[falcon]

these numbers are okay in theory, but only if you are exactly average at killer/survivor. Good killers have a higher kill rate, and good survivors have a higher survive rate. These numbers account for the killers who never get kills and survivors who never survive. If you are above average, its nowhere near as bleak as you say it is

[FatherOfTheAbyss]

Originally posted by rexyandiknowityeah:

my advice is play the meta of whatever is popular until they nerf it into the ground and then quit the game between rifts as BHVR has introduced nothing since totems and continues to listen to "comp" players. and that was a long... long time ago. we can see how we got here, it's how every game goes. someone wants a competitive mode and they introduce ranked or match gimmicks to award a win to one side. since an hour long game ending in loss for survivors now limited kicks to gens so they can just win. they just auto win. instead of balancing the game they have continued to allow survivors to come back from the exit in a squad and take people off hooks. this is why you no-ed or just slug and push the people in the exit out of the game.

there are actual survivors in this game with one character p100 and no other survivors played. why would you prestige beyond 3 to share t3 of those perks who knows... but there are people who only play this with the same squad every day.

that is the minority. the average gamer is fed up. survivors who do solo q are sick of getting stomped. killers are sick of endurance, flashlights, pallet hitboxes being atrociously broken, getting stuck in vault after a survivor, and the only solution BHVR has come up with is to nerf how many gen events you can have.


and before anyone says you must do 4% progress of a gen to start it again after damage, that's 1 charge from a toolbox. so yes... they can still tap as we learned in the ptb.

play survivor.

^ This guy gets it. We have a dilemma here and Behaviour isn't fixing said issues. Just wait until no one is playing Killer. Right now its all hunky-dory because of the BP bonus but when I can't play how I want, I'm out. Gens Win matches, and limiting gens regressions is huge. For all you c(uck)s that say "yOu CaN't PoSsiBiLy MaKe 8 gEn ReGrEsSeS IN oNe MaTch" if that's the case they why are they messing with it? Same thing with the Hiding the Prestiges in Lobbies. I was one of the unfortunate souls that had the stupid pushed upon me update, I couldn't tell if I was going into a 4 Stack with 4 P100s or a bunch of no Prestiges noobs. Knowing what I'm up against I would swap out my Perks and add-ons from Sweaty to "I'm going to play and have fun and lets all these Survivors live" perks. We need balance we NEED two modes Casual and Competitive, MMR is a joke and if you ask me doesn't even exist and if it does its broken AF, We need a place where Noobs can learn the game and a place where the Sweaty Killers and Survivors can beat on each other with no holdsbars. We need to face fact here this game is bleeding-out users, New players are getting stomped and not returning.