Dead Hard what?!

[skynd-sg]

Does the announced change make Dead Hard even more useless and encourages tunneling even more?

After a BT Hit, you can't use it. In order to avoid deadhard, killer has to chase that unhooked BT exhausted guy. If killer tunnels each individual survivor out, deadhard cannot be triggered once.

I mean at this point: just delete the perk. Otherwise it's a wasted perk-slot.

Or did I miss smth that you can use DH in exhausted/deep wound state? Then it's even stronger than before the first PTB change.

It's a mess.

EDIT: The exact wording is "This way, the unhooked Survivor becomes less of a clear target for the killer". The exact opposite is true.

EDIT 2: The only way to make "Dead Hard" viable somehow

- Adrenaline: To get rid of Deep-Wound while in chase
- Decisive Strike: If you get tunneled, you can save yourself and use DH afterwards
- Borrowed Time: If teammates play it, the chances are higher that you get rid of deep wound 'cause of the longer speedboost after BT-Hit

Combine that for a SWF with all the same perk loadouts...

And ladies and gentlemen: we get the same meta we have since the Halloween-Chapter-Release up until Summer 2022. Really good job. I can't believe it.

[Probably afk tbh]

As far as it reads it will heavily encourage Killers to tunnel off hook.

[HarmonikaGuy]

bhvr really hates survivro perks or something

[Dragovich]

Everyone was calling the "original" DH useless as well. Warp to present time - it's a perk that is found if not every game, then every other game, at least

[Bubba & Friends]

So to get this right, you come off the hook and your dead hard activates, you get hit instantly by the killer whilst you are within the endurance period, so now you need to mend, whilst in mend you can't dead hard.. so now you just get put back on that hook and dead hard becomes useless. I see the point..

I personally would prefer to use off the record after this update, if i'm going to get tunnelled anyway, I might as well be silent and not have my aura shown to the killer to get to a safe distance to heal.

[Jack_Philips]

It deserve that to be deleted in the game so its a slight nerf

[★ Møndhirsch ★]

OMG you're right! Haven't thought about that.

[erandomone]

Yeah... they changed it from activating when you unhook somebody because they thought it would encourage folk to not go after the savior. But the change makes it so they HAVE to go after the person that was just unhooked, or else have to deal with the DH.

[Lyzer]

Hangman's Trick is the worst perk in the game. I think it's a waste of space. Let's delete it.

[Paulo Ramos]

Originally posted by Dragovich:

Everyone was calling the "original" DH useless as well. Warp to present time - it's a perk that is found if not every game, then every other game, at least

The original was not good specially because it was per to per with the killer as host. It was more common being exhausted in the ground and the dash was small.

[Dragovich]

Originally posted by Paulo Ramos:

Originally posted by Dragovich:

Everyone was calling the "original" DH useless as well. Warp to present time - it's a perk that is found if not every game, then every other game, at least

The original was not good specially because it was per to per with the killer as host. It was more common being exhausted in the ground and the dash was small.

Perhaps. But what we should carry out of this is a trend. That the moment the survivors can't abuse something - there's suddenly a massive outcry with "Deleting the game!", "Why don't you remove it then?" and such. From the same people, and that's the majority, that still end up using it every 2nd game AT LEAST, because it just gives them that much of an advantage. In a game where everything is already heavily lop-sided in survivors' favor

[AsianGirlLover]

If you’re worried about tunnels, just bring Decisive and loop as long as possible to waste their time.

[Fezix93]

One thing you have to consider is why Killers started with the increased tunneling after hook. When I first started playing the game the expectation was that going after someone who was just unhooked was a ♥♥♥♥ move. Low MMR killers(who didn't know better) and asshats would still do it of course, but it was considered a weak move by the killer that also meant they weren't defending Gens.

This changed when Circle of Healing was added to the game, NOT when they changed DH. This was because CoH allowed infinite sped up heals, which meant that single hits and being injured meant nothing to survivors at worst, and was actually helpful to survivors at best when they had perks that triggered when injured. This changed the culture. Killers now needed to make sure anyone who was hurt ended up down otherwise the time spent trying to injure someone was wasted (since they would then just run off and heal an infinite number of times and usually within 10seconds).

This also changed Survivor culture too. While Dead Hard was always a thing, you now had multitudes of survivors completely ignoring stealth and loop mechanics knowing that they could tank the first hit and heal it quickly as long as the killer didn't immediately pursue them. This meant taking DH was a must, as a means of protection against a Killer who did pursue the injured survivor. This also meant you had bunches of survivors who didn't actually know how to play survivor; they were bad at looping and avoiding the killer because they only knew how to tank the first hit just to run off an heal it. If the Killer pursued this person, then the Killer was also considered to be tunneling, since the Killer was then chasing a survivor across the map to down them even if it meant leaving the gens unattended to do so.

Fast forward to today, and I expect the same thing will happen to the culture but just in reverse once the changes to DH and CoH go live. DH will be a reward for taking the time to rescue someone else, and CoH won't be able to give all survs infinite free heals. Neither will be a crutch for bad survivor play anymore. As such, the need to eliminate injured survivors asap will disappear, and Killers won't be forced to run across the map to stop the infinite heals. This means Killers can focus gens primarily again without feeling like their work chasing a survivor would be wasted, which returns us (mostly) to the original culture and expectations

[Truth seeker]

If you get hit when you get unhook the basekit BT activate so killer will still wait the BT timer before they go for the hit and if you have DH you will be able to use it. Its when you are on your second hook that the killer will smack you immediatly.

[Hunterelfss]

I was the one who suggested the idea to BHVR, and you have all misunderstood the new Dead Hard.

The OLD Dead Hard (on PTB) had the exact issue you are all complaining about. The old Dead Hard meant that when you are unhooked, if the killer tunnelled out the unhooked survivor, Dead Hard would never activate for any survivor in the game, since it would require a safe unhook.

The NEW Dead Hard (announced today) means that when a survivor is unhooked, the unhooked survivor will be the survivor who gains the Dead Hard button to use against the killer. If the survivor gets hit during BT, it doesn't deactivate Dead Hard. From what I understand, Dead Hard only deactivates when the killer successfully hits a survivor after they use Dead Hard. Getting hit with Endurance/BT does NOT use Dead Hard or deactivate it.

This is an absolutely amazing change by BHVR, and you have all misunderstood it. What you are all describing is how the OLD Dead Hard works, not how the new Dead Hard works.

[Probably afk tbh]

Originally posted by Hunterelfss:

I was the one who suggested the idea to BHVR, and you have all misunderstood the new Dead Hard.

The OLD Dead Hard (on PTB) had the exact issue you are all complaining about. The old Dead Hard meant that when you are unhooked, if the killer tunnelled out the unhooked survivor, Dead Hard would never activate for any survivor in the game, since it would require a safe unhook.

The NEW Dead Hard (announced today) means that when a survivor is unhooked, the unhooked survivor will be the survivor who gains the Dead Hard button to use against the killer. If the survivor gets hit during BT, it doesn't deactivate Dead Hard. Dead Hard only deactivates when the killer successfully hits a survivor after they use Dead Hard. Getting hit with BT does NOT use Dead Hard or deactivate it.

This is an absolutely amazing change by BHVR, and you have all misunderstood it. What you are all describing is how the OLD Dead Hard works, not how the new Dead Hard works.

We understand, but DH cannot be used when you have deep wounds, which you get if your hit with BT. So if you tunnel an unhooked survivor and hit the BT then DH becomes a non-issue.