im curious to know what about this game is unfair for killers..?

[Jane Doe]

i swear to god multiple patches have dropped where killer has routinely gotten easier and easier and i STILL see killers complaining that swf is cheating, camping hooks shouldnt be punishable et cetera et cetera, just say u want to play a game where u kill mobs of survivors like vegetables because anything harder than that is "unfair and cheating" like give me a break

[MrWhiteYo]

Postat inițial de skynd-sg:

Postat inițial de Reckall:

So... "♥♥♥♥ happens. Eat it." What a game.

Preemptive answer: Thanks to God I still have games against very good players who actually learned how to play well, not how to read numbers on a map. Maybe I get ZeroK but I salute their skill. So, DBD is still really cool and fun - once every three games.

"Comms are cheating" is not a fact, it is a talking point and opinion, where the majority disagrees on.

I am not denying your opinion; don't get me wrong. But saying that "comms" are cheating/bannable is simply NOT TRUE in current DbD.

If you want a discussion about comms being cheating? OK. Lets start and let's "imagine" the situation.

But the "real" situation right now (and OP was referencing to the current state) is that in tournaments, even without any perk restrictions, killers get higher killrates than escape rates (where comms are allowed).

I think when people talk about this they imagine a tryhard talk over comms like when JRM, Otz, Dowsey and Ayrun made the hardcore challenge. But the reality is probably stupid banter and jokes, with the occasional callout where the killer is.

[Reckall]

Postat inițial de skynd-sg:

But the "real" situation right now (and OP was referencing to the current state) is that in tournaments, even without any perk restrictions, killers get higher killrates than escape rates (where comms are allowed).

I'm a game designer IRL. Not videogames: tabletop games. My job actually is playtesting and evaluation, so I know a thing or two about game structure - videogames included. I'm not boasting, it is simply my job.

Looking at Dead by Daylight it is easy to see how it was ideally based on the "50%-50% choice" concept. A Survivor is hooked... Is the Killer using it as a bait or I should go for the save? (notice how the very first trailer foe DBD was about this) I'm tunneling/camping a Survivor... Is this smart? What the others are doing? Will gens pop from under my ass? Even the "two gates" finale is 50%-50% - for both the Survivors and the Killer.

This equilibrium was either never reached or broken by some fundamental change - because both camping and tunneling should be basic tropes of a horror movie simulator, not "toxic behaviours" (examples: in "The Shining" Jack Torrance didn't tunnel Wendy enough, managed to surprise Halloran but he lost when he tunneled Danny too much... In TCSM Bubba was the worst tunneler ever and at the end the final girl escaped).

Now you have a game where legit tactics - baiting and chasing to death - are considered toxic and actively countered by the developers themselves. To this add an astounding fix: Survivors with Mindhive! If there is a horror movie where the Survivors have this talent please point me to it - because I never saw one. From "Alien" to "X" either the Survivors understand the danger and how to counter it, or they die (usually one by one).

I have about 250 hours in DBD so I'm far from being a expert. However, what I see are beautiful pieces of a horror game kept together not organically but by some miracle. And now the 50%-50% choice is "Will we help the Killers and damage the soloQs, or nerf them and make SWF even stronger?

TL;DR: I see no silver bullet solution. The developers painted themselves into a corner and this is the situation we are in for the time being. INHO, it is time for a DBD 2 with the core playability redone from the ground up - but I fear that Behaviour is too scared to kill their golden egg goose until it will croak by itself.

[Voidlines]

Honestly my only three major gripes are hit detection, auto-aim, and weaker killers being very useless in higher MMR matches. And even I'll admit hit detection has gotten better.

[IBoughtFanciesFeet]

Postat inițial de Gibolin:

It's not a real pvp community. A lot of players playing mainly killer are not here in seek of challenging themselves against other players.

I think Bhvr saw that and, for 6 years now, "balance" the game to make really casual and objectively bad killer players still able to get their power trip. The same players in a symmetrical environnement would stop playing in some hours 'cause they wouldn't be able to do anything but get ♥♥♥♥ on.

That's why people who are experienced with the game always tell that's it's not a competitive game. They understand that certain matches are won or lost before it even started.

This. The biggest thing I’ve seen from killer mains on this forum are complaints that they can’t easily walk their way to a 4K every match. And no I’m not saying ALL killers. There are many people here who play killer who have openly said they want the match to be fair, they don’t want easy wins and they want the thrill of the chase and the challenge of it. But it seems like more killers just want the easy win whether it be for their ego or because they think pvp games are supposed to be a cakewalk. Who knows?

[Broccoli & Cheese]

This game is fundamentally survivor biased in terms of objective, and how it is implemented. Killers are force to do 1 v 1x4 rather 1 v 4 in the gameplay.

Killer's role is never easy, unless the survivors screw it up really bad or have no idea what they are doing. When people argued that the game is killer sided because of tunneling, camping, and slugging, they mistakenly see the consequence as a cause and a reason why the game is killer sided and easy for killer. Rather tunneling, camping, and slugging is a counter force to the survivor biased objective that is the foundation of the game.

I think when killer players complain about the game, it is not the fact that cannot 4k or 3k every matches. Rather it is the killer experience in general, the enjoyment as playing as a killer, that has nothing to do with kills. Killer often complain how stressful or frustrated it is, just to keep up during loops and chases meanwhile defending the gens. It is a feeling of hopeless that they feel where they cannot really do anything, rather than caring about kills. Killers' complain is exactly like solo q, how hopeless it feels in a match, where IMPORTANTLY it is neither fault of any sides. It is just a bad designed objective.

I sense this post intention is to further divide the community rather than a post of discussion with good-will and intention. The community does NOT need such division.

[Voidlines]

Postat inițial de HEX: Cream-Filled:

Postat inițial de Gibolin:

It's not a real pvp community. A lot of players playing mainly killer are not here in seek of challenging themselves against other players.

I think Bhvr saw that and, for 6 years now, "balance" the game to make really casual and objectively bad killer players still able to get their power trip. The same players in a symmetrical environnement would stop playing in some hours 'cause they wouldn't be able to do anything but get ♥♥♥♥ on.

That's why people who are experienced with the game always tell that's it's not a competitive game. They understand that certain matches are won or lost before it even started.

This. The biggest thing I’ve seen from killer mains on this forum are complaints that they can’t easily walk their way to a 4K every match. And no I’m not saying ALL killers. There are many people here who play killer who have openly said they want the match to be fair, they don’t want easy wins and they want the thrill of the chase and the challenge of it. But it seems like more killers just want the easy win whether it be for their ego or because they think pvp games are supposed to be a cakewalk. Who knows?

I've also seen a lot of survivor posts here and on the official forums have a similar trend. Lots of buffs for survivors meant not to be fair, but to give an unfair edge against all killers be it because of a few OP killers, playstyles, or just because they don't want to work around certain mechanics with no thought how it effects killers trying to play fair.

It's the byproduct of PvP games unfortunately, and asymmetric games suffer the worst of the player's expectations and demands.

[erandomone]

Posting about "I always hear killers complaining about the game" as if the forums aren't riddled with people complaining that the game's broken on the survivor side or killers are too powerful is a weird bait post.

I mean, she got like 8 point awards for it, so people definitely fell for it.

[Reckall]

OK, I’ll make a simple example.

One of the strengths of the Onryo is her stealth ability, which can be increased with add-ons. With the right build, the right approach and good timing she can even pick Survivors off generators just like that.

However, all the above goes out of the window as soon as Sadako meets a SWF group - as she is very possibly seen by another Survivor who immediately warns the target. When the target runs away, if Sadako chases the other Survivor goes to the gen immediately.

Rinse and repeat.

This means that. Behaviour created (and sold) a Killer whose very strengths are negated by… “the way the game is meant to be played”??? What’s the point, then?

This is why I found ScaryLoopz’s video so to the point. The Killer can’t hide - the Survivors can. He is the only player in the game with no assistance. The Survivors act according to info they can’t possibly have. And some tactics can even negate the basic powers of the Killer.

“I’m on 1, going for…2”

“No! No! Go to 12 then do the top mid gen. I’ll pull the Killer away towards 3”

“OK”

…I mean… for real?? Survivors with mindhive and drones? Possibly using the playbook of a modern mechanised infantry platoon?

If this is “the way the game is meant to be played” I would like for Behaviour to clearly spell out how, yes, DBD has nothing to do with the idea of four scared Survivors learning to cooperate so to escape a dangerous Killer - which is what their propaganda made me buy.

[barrosor]

Postat inițial de Nasty Gal 97:

i swear to god multiple patches have dropped where killer has routinely gotten easier and easier and i STILL see killers complaining that swf is cheating, camping hooks shouldnt be punishable et cetera et cetera, just say u want to play a game where u kill mobs of survivors like vegetables because anything harder than that is "unfair and cheating" like give me a break

killer mains here will tell you SWF is a nightmare and that it shouldn't exist etc etc and will solely rely on that argument as to why the game is harder for killers. The truth is, yes SWF can be a problem, but the majority of people don't play SWF, most play soloq. And soloq has never been this hard... the maps have way too many dead zones, vaulting is pratically useless, since getting a fast vault is almost impossible and killers have a waayyyyyyyyyy too long hit range through the vaults (not to mention the hitboxes need severe fixing). Healing takes forever now, specially when under Sloppy Butcher effects. Camping, tunneling and slugging is stupidly rewarding for killers since in soloq the survivors are not all at sync, so they won't punish the killer for these things the way they should. The matchmaking is a joke, it doesn't matter if you have a 1000hrs in this game, you will still get paired with noob survivors who just bought the game because they think it's a solid idea to reset the ranks every month. One thing that can be really hard on killers is gen rush. Besides that, and in the current state of the game, playing soloq survivor is way more difficult than playing killer.