Window and Pallet Hit Validation

[TheTimooon]

is it me or it just the window and pallet hit validation is all ♥♥♥♥ again! :(

[feral]

not you. it's always been horrible.

[Hex: Nancy Pelosi]

Again? When was it fixed?

[Consent]

Idk why survivors are a LOT louder in this topic than killers.

I also quite often have a chase where i literally swing through a pallet, collide with the survivor, and get pallet stunned without a hit.

Same for Wesker's window grabs. For every window you get grabbed through, Weskers bounce off of a window.

This is a double edged sword. I just hope BHVR doesnt just "fix" one side because survivors complain about hitreg a lot more than killers.

[Cam]

The only thing consistent about pallets and windows is that you will get the opposite result that you think you will. Last minute vault? Get smacked. Last minute swing? Bonked on the head. They're better than they used to be. I remember the days where I had someone predrop a pallet, I swung too early and hit the pallet, and they got injured on the other side

[Captain Dickärd]

Happens more to me when playing survivor. However, there have been a considerable number of times where I've hit a survivor, heard the impact and scream, and the survivor took no damage.

[feral]

Originally posted by Consent:

Idk why survivors are a LOT louder in this topic than killers.

why? maybe because the hits are validated in the killer's client, and after 7 years we are a bit tired of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hits of killers with bad internet connections. and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wesker window grabs meters from the window, and more could be listed.
exactly for that reason.

[Astral]

Originally posted by feral:

Originally posted by Consent:

Idk why survivors are a LOT louder in this topic than killers.

why? maybe because the hits are validated in the killer's client, and after 7 years we are a bit tired of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hits of killers with bad internet connections. and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wesker window grabs meters from the window, and more could be listed.
exactly for that reason.

Not anymore, I had some cases like Captain had other cases where I hit air and it validates as hitting the survivors sometimes the same hit doesn't count sometimes I have the survivor right in front of me and it doesn't count.
Honestly, since there's dedicated servers now it feels like it's more prominent the hits that will count from those that won't.

[feral]

Originally posted by Astral:

Originally posted by feral:

why? maybe because the hits are validated in the killer's client, and after 7 years we are a bit tired of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hits of killers with bad internet connections. and the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wesker window grabs meters from the window, and more could be listed.
exactly for that reason.

Not anymore

hits were always validated in the killer's client, even after switching to dedicated servers.

"In Dead by Daylight, hits are calculated using the Killer’s position on their machine. This is a strategy that is used a lot in video games, often called the “favour the shooter” system, coming from first person shooter (FPS) games. This strategy ensures that the shooter (or Killer, in our case) is guaranteed to hit someone without predicting moves or latency from the Survivor.

We use this strategy because it is consistent and provides immediate feedback. A Killer knows that if they are close enough, their hit will connect. They will not have to worry about their attack missing because their opponent has a weak connection.

This does, however, have the unfortunate downside of favouring the Killer even when the Killer has an exceptionally weak connection. "

[State Line Crosser]

Originally posted by feral:

hits were always validated in the killer's client, even after switching to dedicated servers.

Are you denying that the servers will refund hits? Windows don't obviously. I often wonder if they have some kind of validation system for pallet stuns that doesn't favor the killer.

[feral]

Originally posted by State Line Crosser:

Originally posted by feral:

hits were always validated in the killer's client, even after switching to dedicated servers.

Are you denying that the servers will refund hits? Windows don't obviously. I often wonder if they have some kind of validation system for pallet stuns that doesn't favor the killer.

what they are talking about happened back in 2021, when the developers put a hit validator on the old DH.
but it wasn't fully server-side validation either, just a validator that bypassed the killer's client so that the illegitimate hit was not executed, and then finally validated it in the killer's client as well. this resulted in a moment when it appeared to the killer that he had hit the survivor, but that hit was never actually justified. in the case of the new DH, this problem no longer exists, and since then i have not seen anyone who could show evidence that this still happens, everyone always just tells the old stories. it never happens to me when i play a killer. but even if it happens, it doesn't change the fact that the validation has always been on the killer's client/side.

as for the pallets, as far as i know, the pallet drop animation should at least 50% complete so that the killer is stunned without hitting the survivor. if the animation doesn't reach that point, both can happen at the same time and the killer can hit the survivor despite being stunned afterwards.
on the other hand, hitting through a fully dropped pallet is clearly invalid and favors killers with high ping.

[Alluboy]

Yeah, it's been terrible for a long time. The amount of times I've been hit after vaulting, especially after my character has taken literal STEPS is insane.

[State Line Crosser]

Originally posted by feral:

what they are talking about happened back in 2021, when the developers put a hit validator on the old DH.
but it wasn't fully server-side validation either, just a validator that bypassed the killer's client so that the illegitimate hit was not executed, and then finally validated it in the killer's client as well. this resulted in a moment when it appeared to the killer that he had hit the survivor, but that hit was never actually justified. in the case of the new DH, this problem no longer exists, and since then i have not seen anyone who could show evidence that this still happens, everyone always just tells the old stories. it never happens to me when i play a killer. but even if it happens, it doesn't change the fact that the validation has always been on the killer's client/side.

That's what I thought. I can assure you hit validation on pallets is still very much a thing. Unfortunately, I don't record all my games so I don't have video of it for you. It's fairly rare though so I suspect they scaled the conditions back a bit at aotme point. It also has only ever happened to me when I had >100 ping to the server.

The game being hosted on the killers side is honestly irrelevant. Someone has to host it. If they did it server side you'd probably see some crazy ♥♥♥♥ that would warrant killer hit validations that would drive people nuts.

Originally posted by Paulo Ramos:

There is no hit validation on pallets. It used to have hit validation for pallets and dead hard more then one year ago but both were removed because many killers complained about it.

Wrong. Dh probably still has validation too but that one is a lot harder to see now.

Originally posted by feral:

as for the pallets, as far as i know, the pallet drop animation should at least 50% complete so that the killer is stunned without hitting the survivor. if the animation doesn't reach that point, both can happen at the same time and the killer can hit the survivor despite being stunned afterwards.
on the other hand, hitting through a fully dropped pallet is clearly invalid and favors killers with high ping.

For me it's the pallet stuns as killer. I'll know it's going to drop so I purposely back up only to get hit moving away at a survivor and halfs distance from the pallet. I see this happen a lot and it leads me to believe that the game predicts killer movement to calculate stuns. If the game only ever favored killers on hit reg then this should only rarely occur.

I've also gotten some wacky hits, during the event in particular. Getting stunned onto the side with the survivor isn't supposed to happen but I see it almost every other day.

[Paulo Ramos]

There is no hit validation on pallets. It used to have hit validation for pallets and dead hard more then one year ago but both were removed because many killers complained about it.
The game does not have a server-side validation.

[feral]

Originally posted by State Line Crosser:

The game being hosted on the killers side is honestly irrelevant. Someone has to host it. If they did it server side you'd probably see some crazy ♥♥♥♥ that would warrant killer hit validations that would drive people nuts.

not irrelevant or negligible at all. anyway, the host is not the killer. as i said, we switched to dedicated servers, but the validation still takes place in the killer's client, which is not only unfair, but the cause of all the above-mentioned problems, which only benefits the killer. solving this problem would require full server-side validation.

here's a video of a killer with bad connection at pallet stun scenario that someone recently uploaded to the forums. i hope this makes it clear to everyone who benefits from the killer side validation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs_-utzPx1U

otherwise, i'm not here to argue, i'm just stating facts. if someone still doesn't believe me after all this, or doesn't understand what it's about, i won't force the truth on them.

[Consent]

Originally posted by feral:

Originally posted by State Line Crosser:

The game being hosted on the killers side is honestly irrelevant. Someone has to host it. If they did it server side you'd probably see some crazy ♥♥♥♥ that would warrant killer hit validations that would drive people nuts.

not irrelevant or negligible at all. anyway, the host is not the killer. as i said, we switched to dedicated servers, but the validation still takes place in the killer's client, which is not only unfair, but the cause of all the above-mentioned problems, which only benefits the killer. solving this problem would require full server-side validation.

here's a video of a killer with bad connection at pallet stun scenario that someone recently uploaded to the forums. i hope this makes it clear to everyone who benefits from the killer side validation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs_-utzPx1U

otherwise, i'm not here to argue, i'm just stating facts. if someone still doesn't believe me after all this, or doesn't understand what it's about, i won't force the truth on them.

And what do you suggest? For hit validation to be server/survivor based? Then killers have to "predict" where the survivor actually is, rather than where they see them.

The best system is the current one. A few killers here and there being laggy doesnt mean this is a bad thing.

Also most of "hit validation" is because of Survivor ping + Killer ping. Blame your own internet connection. If you have 50ms against a 50ms Killer, its the most fair thing on the planet. Because on his screen, you're 100ms further behind than you are on your own.