This requires a discussion

[トリッシュ]

Main theme: Survivors vs Killer, the community

(I mostly play Survivor)
Survivors gets angry when Killer is camping, or tunneling, right?
Are they cheating? No.
Killers that do this are breaking the rules? No.
(1st EDIT: with this I mean that Survivors can play as they want, right? Killers can play also as they wants too. If you don't like something a player that is not breaking any rule is doing, means you don't like the game, because the player isn't doing anything bad If the player is using a strategy you don't like.)

There are many ways to win against that kind of killer, If your team is not organized, you lose.
Why you lost? Because you wasn't skilled enough, It's very simple.

Stop with this no sense hate with gamers that doesn't break any rules.
We should hate cheaters, not with who plays legally.

I'll give more explainations, for example in CS:GO you can't win against with who is camping?
You can win, If your team are skilled enough with a good strategy in every situation.
Another example, Tekken 7, you can't win with who uses the same lame combo? You aren't skilled enough, because he is using the same combo, you can avoid with the same right defensive commands.

At the end, If you lose is just your fault (2nd EDIT: since people are criticizing every letters, the meaning about "your fault" is in general, of course If you're in a team, depends by each component), this is for Killers vs Survivors and vice versa.
If you can't understand this, means that you're just immature, and can't accept be defeated in games.

I done this post because from when I installed the game I see the same annoying discussions about this.

3rd EDIT:
I chosen this post as best reply, because is one of the few who really understood what I wanted to explain.

[alternative]

Enough look on profile or steam page random killer, here you can find many disgusting messages from survivors, which were not in condition "win" because killer played enough effective and was able sacrifice one or more survivors. These comments very many say about how indecent are most part survivors, that they not have logic and have double standards about which rights have survivors and killers, that only survivors have rights use such tactics like camping and tunneling targets. You as killer can get rude claims by reason that you played enough good, and by reason that you played not enough good

[NarkoTri1er]

this game truly has one of the worst communities in the multiplayer games spectre. The community is so bad that I would easily mark it as worse than League of Legends community. I admit that specific strategies sometimes tilt me so much that I start ranting about them, but yeah, people aren't ready to cope with many tactics and mindsets in this game.
First of all, we have the competitive vs. casual sides of DbD community, where the situation is pretty much like:
- casual killer vs. casual survivors: "boohoo, boring game, why didn't you do your main objective"
- competitive killer vs. "casual" survivors: "boohoo, tryhard"
- competitive killer vs. competitive survivors: "boohoo, tryhard (???)"
- casual killer vs competitive survivors: "EZ, get rekt"
Quite a big part of the community from both sides is using the "casual gaming" mask while they are actually getting mad about other side beating them using any strategy, competitive or a meme one. If you are truly playing casually, don't constantly whine about campers, tunnelers, full gen regression loadout killers, flashlight squads, sabo squads, genrush squads when they beat you, just go next game.

[egs]

You should have played this game years ago when people abused all the bugs they release each patch and you can't do anything about it but lose...

[Sanvean]

You're using the word "team" a lot. In dbd if you're not 4 players swf, you're not a team.

CS isn't DBD
Tekken isn't DBD

"At the end, If you lose is just your fault"

LMAO.

[Decurio Cthulhus [ESP]]

another example, when killer is facecamping, just go to repair, and the hooked, hold, dont wait near to see if the killer go away. No, the killer will not go away

[LunarisRuin]

That's the DBD community. I can understand why it's annoying. Just like in your examples in CS:GO or any other FPS campers are annoying. Or in fighting games people who button mash are annoying.

But it is a totally fine thing to do and is not against any rules.

The difference here is that gamers in other games actually suck it up and even though they baby rage at least they have the nuts to take it on the chin and either overcome it or just move on with their life.

Here with DBD, whether you're a killer or a survivor if you do anything the other side doesn't like even in the slightest they will immediately revert back to cavemen and unga bunga you in end game chat and your steam profile because man children. That's literally it.

[Tragopan]

It's considered poor sportsmanship and the developers frown upon it due to how it runs counter to the way they're trying to immerse us in the game. Camping is frowned upon here just like any other game so while it may not be against the rules and therefore not reportable it is constantly on the minds of the developers in how they design and balance the game.

It is low effort for high reward, AKA being lazy. It should not be as fruitful as it currently is. It leads to a very high amount of DCs and burnout among the Survivor population. It is unhealthy for the game and the developers are always combating it.

Make all the excuses you want for camping and tunneling but it deserves every ounce of vitriol that it gets as well as the players who partake in it.

[NarkoTri1er]

Originally posted by Tragopan:

It is low effort for high reward, AKA being lazy. It should not be as fruitful as it currently is. It leads to a very high amount of DCs and burnout among the Survivor population. It is unhealthy for the game and the developers are always combating it.

the main and major reason for camping being fruitful is the mindset of survivors. People see you on hook, an alarm in their head triggers instantly and they give up their main objective for an unhook coinflip.
Taking CS:GO as an example again, camping is already being countered and is not that much of a viable strategy anymore (Dust 2 example, you throw the smoke at mid and jump so you make it harder for opponent sniper to hit you and you also deny them the vision which gives very low chances for them to take you out).
In DbD, survivors are literally complaining about strategy that is supposed to be low risk-low reward instead of trying to adapt to the situation like killers are adapting to flashlight squads, sabo squads and genrush squads (tho it's extremely hard to deal with these).
Mindset is the major thing players of this game need to change.

[LittleEtherKitty]

Originally posted by Tragopan:

It's considered poor sportsmanship and the developers frown upon it due to how it runs counter to the way they're trying to immerse us in the game. Camping is frowned upon here just like any other game so while it may not be against the rules and therefore not reportable it is constantly on the minds of the developers in how they design and balance the game.

It is low effort for high reward, AKA being lazy. It should not be as fruitful as it currently is. It leads to a very high amount of DCs and burnout among the Survivor population. It is unhealthy for the game and the developers are always combating it.

Make all the excuses you want for camping and tunneling but it deserves every ounce of vitriol that it gets as well as the players who partake in it.

You're saying that people simply playing a game to win deserve the death threats and threats of harm? Over a video game, in which the events of have no real effect on people? Not to mention all the survs that use that as an excuse even when the killer didn't do so. Also, kinda interesting how sitting there, with a break from the game, causes burnout.

[Oleander Hume]

I have played close to 150h so far; i saw for the first time a killer camping today. Appart from that never. Not a big deal, while he camp, just split and do the other gens... And repeat.
It's not a proof of anything but it do not seem that much toxic. Either i'm lucky, either people that see it once just loose control and get confirmation on the forums of isolated cases and think it is a HUUUUUUEGE ISSUUEEEE ...

Anyway it is legit ;) And i think only new to the game does this ... Everyone learn at some point ... Give time to time ... Ok new players are coming every day ? Good ! The game is healthy !

[Tragopan]

Originally posted by LittleEtherKitty:

Originally posted by Tragopan:

It's considered poor sportsmanship and the developers frown upon it due to how it runs counter to the way they're trying to immerse us in the game. Camping is frowned upon here just like any other game so while it may not be against the rules and therefore not reportable it is constantly on the minds of the developers in how they design and balance the game.

It is low effort for high reward, AKA being lazy. It should not be as fruitful as it currently is. It leads to a very high amount of DCs and burnout among the Survivor population. It is unhealthy for the game and the developers are always combating it.

Make all the excuses you want for camping and tunneling but it deserves every ounce of vitriol that it gets as well as the players who partake in it.

You're saying that people simply playing a game to win deserve the death threats and threats of harm? Over a video game, in which the events of have no real effect on people? Not to mention all the survs that use that as an excuse even when the killer didn't do so. Also, kinda interesting how sitting there, with a break from the game, causes burnout.

Way to twist the narrative. I said vitriol, not threats. Trying to compare a bruised ego with being threatened is a stretch.

It would also be disingenuous to say that the majority of Killers who are labeled as campers and tunnelers are innocent of such claims. Contrary to belief Survivors don't complain at the drop of a hat. If you're running into these problems then your match was not pristine. Somehow I'm able to Kill 6+ hours a day without a single claim of camping, tunneling, or BMing. You reap what you sow.

Finally, not being able to play the game due to actions outside your control does lead to burnout ya... especially when it happens so frequently. Funny how that works.

[Tragopan]

Originally posted by NarkoTri1er:

Originally posted by Tragopan:

It is low effort for high reward, AKA being lazy. It should not be as fruitful as it currently is. It leads to a very high amount of DCs and burnout among the Survivor population. It is unhealthy for the game and the developers are always combating it.

the main and major reason for camping being fruitful is the mindset of survivors. People see you on hook, an alarm in their head triggers instantly and they give up their main objective for an unhook coinflip.
Taking CS:GO as an example again, camping is already being countered and is not that much of a viable strategy anymore (Dust 2 example, you throw the smoke at mid and jump so you make it harder for opponent sniper to hit you and you also deny them the vision which gives very low chances for them to take you out).
In DbD, survivors are literally complaining about strategy that is supposed to be low risk-low reward instead of trying to adapt to the situation like killers are adapting to flashlight squads, sabo squads and genrush squads (tho it's extremely hard to deal with these).
Mindset is the major thing players of this game need to change.

That would be because the solution leaves a sour taste in the mouth and exacerbates the problem: do generators while the person on hook does not get to play the game, dies, depips. Trading is not the answer. 3 man unhooking is not feasible for a solo lobby or a instant down Killer. While the rest of the lobby is very likely to escape the entire lobby (Killer included) is starved of points and will at best blank pip. It's not healthy for the game.

If it were low effort for low reward it would not be as condemned as it is because the Killer would be hurting themselves with their own actions. It isn't though. It's very rewarding to the point where we see it nearly every match.

[I'm him]

Originally posted by Tragopan:

It's considered poor sportsmanship and the developers frown upon it due to how it runs counter to the way they're trying to immerse us in the game. Camping is frowned upon here just like any other game so while it may not be against the rules and therefore not reportable it is constantly on the minds of the developers in how they design and balance the game.

It is low effort for high reward, AKA being lazy. It should not be as fruitful as it currently is. It leads to a very high amount of DCs and burnout among the Survivor population. It is unhealthy for the game and the developers are always combating it.

Make all the excuses you want for camping and tunneling but it deserves every ounce of vitriol that it gets as well as the players who partake in it.

Unfortunately the devs only create bandaid perks to fix this and their only REAL deterrent was the penalization when it comes to the rankings, but not even that matters ultimately. You can camp 1 person to death and STILL end up pipping/potentially double pipping. This is entirely the fault of the devs by not nipping the problem in the butt before it evolved to this point.

[LittleEtherKitty]

Originally posted by Tragopan:

Originally posted by LittleEtherKitty:

You're saying that people simply playing a game to win deserve the death threats and threats of harm? Over a video game, in which the events of have no real effect on people? Not to mention all the survs that use that as an excuse even when the killer didn't do so. Also, kinda interesting how sitting there, with a break from the game, causes burnout.

Way to twist the narrative. I said vitriol, not threats. Trying to compare a bruised ego with being threatened is a stretch.

It would also be disingenuous to say that the majority of Killers who are labeled as campers and tunnelers are innocent of such claims. Contrary to belief Survivors don't complain at the drop of a hat. If you're running into these problems then your match was not pristine. Somehow I'm able to Kill 6+ hours a day without a single claim of camping, tunneling, or BMing. You reap what you sow.

Finally, not being able to play the game due to actions outside your control does lead to burnout ya... especially when it happens so frequently. Funny how that works.

I asked a question, for understanding, but I understand the confusion, considering how most people use that.

As for being disingenuous, I can say that I've been called a camper, more times, while not camping, than I have, while camping. In addition, no one can truly say, one way or another, as you only know part of the situation, specifically for your games and any that you might watch, which I doubt is a large portion of the games that take place.

I can go like that, too, without being called a camper, but then there's some days when half the survs do complain "at the drop of a hat".

As for not being able to play the game, multiple matches in a row... you're probably doing something wrong and should ask how you were found. Look to improve, not drive others down.

[NarkoTri1er]

Originally posted by Tragopan:

That would be because the solution leaves a sour taste in the mouth and exacerbates the problem: do generators while the person on hook does not get to play the game, dies, depips. Trading is not the answer. 3 man unhooking is not feasible for a solo lobby or a instant down Killer. While the rest of the lobby is very likely to escape the entire lobby (Killer included) is starved of points and will at best blank pip. It's not healthy for the game.

If it were low effort for low reward it would not be as condemned as it is because the Killer would be hurting themselves with their own actions. It isn't though. It's very rewarding to the point where we see it nearly every match.

but let's be honest, if we were in an ideal world where your teammates would play just the way you wanted them to, you would definitely want to leave sour taste in the mouth of that killer and actually punish them for facecamping.
As I already said on another thread, would you like the killer to potentially feel the sweet taste of victory using an low effort tactic or you'd want to give them sweet defeat?

Originally posted by Juke Master 6000:

Unfortunately the devs only create bandaid perks to fix this and their only REAL deterrent was the penalization when it comes to the rankings, but not even that matters ultimately. You can camp 1 person to death and STILL end up pipping/potentially double pipping. This is entirely the fault of the devs by not nipping the problem in the butt before it evolved to this point.

I think there should be a survivor sided aspect of the "proximity to the hook" killer pipping part and the more time killer spends in the let's say range of 20m of hooked survivor, survivor can't depip at all.