Tunneling??

[BlueBoi]

Bruh why is the meta just to tunnel or face-camp now. What happened to when dbd had proper survivor/killer etiquette?

[alternative]

Devs create such design game, which award for camping and tunneling targets, and punish for trying use "more fair" tactics, this attitude to both sides. Therefore in current time not have sense complain on survivors that they "genrush" and on killers that they tunneling, camping or slugging

[Zakon]

Otzdarva made a pretty good video on the subject, look up "tunneling has gotten worse in DBD"

I used to try not to tunnel, and I still don't hardcore tunnel people usually, but I definitely do feel the pressure to go after people closer to death hook. My games have gotten much harder ever since the UI update.

I do think that the survivors having the info that the UI update gives is overall a good thing, but survivors play much more efficiently now with the information that it gives you. If the survivors play efficiently, then so do I.

It's not uncommon to lose 2-3 generators in my first chase. I sometimes lose 3 generators in the time it took me to find one survivor and also down them, and all the survivor does is run me through a couple of pallets and not even that efficiently. Granted this is on low tier killers like Sadako who effectively has no chase power, but it still happens.

This used to be less common when there was less info. Like a survivor might have heard my terror radius, assumed I was coming for them, so they'd get ready to run instead of staying on their generator. Now they see a symbol over their ally to let them know even though I'm nearby, I'm just chasing their ally, so they're relatively safe to keep working. Even if I hear them working on their gen and break off and go for them, all I'm doing is trading a potentially injured survivor for one who is healthy, their gen won't automatically regress since Ruin isn't a thing anymore.

Meanwhile the injured survivor can just go heal under Boon: Circle of Healing or use their medkit, so the time I devoted to them is wasted now.

None of this is to say that the survivors are doing anything wrong. They're playing the game efficiently. But like I said, if they play efficiently, I also have to play efficiently, and that means getting someone out of the game to even the odds.

The alternative is to bring like 4 slowdowns or play for a 3gen with the genkick meta. Pick your poison. (of course killers can tunnel AND bring 4 slowdowns, but still)

Edit: I want to clarify though, I think this is a GOOD THING. The game should not be balanced around how merciful the killer is feeling.

[BlueBoi]

Originally posted by Zakon:

Otzdarva made a pretty good video on the subject, look up "tunneling has gotten worse in DBD"

I used to try not to tunnel, and I still don't hardcore tunnel people usually, but I definitely do feel the pressure to go after people closer to death hook. My games have gotten much harder ever since the UI update.

I do think that the survivors having the info that the UI update gives is overall a good thing, but survivors play much more efficiently now with the information that it gives you. If the survivors play efficiently, then so do I.

It's not uncommon to lose 2-3 generators in my first chase. I sometimes lose 3 generators in the time it took me to find one survivor and also down them, and all the survivor does is run me through a couple of pallets and not even that efficiently. Granted this is on low tier killers like Sadako who effectively has no chase power, but it still happens.

This used to be less common when there was less info. Like a survivor might have heard my terror radius, assumed I was coming for them, so they'd get ready to run instead of staying on their generator. Now they see a symbol over their ally to let them know even though I'm nearby, I'm just chasing their ally, so they're relatively safe to keep working. Even if I hear them working on their gen and break off and go for them, all I'm doing is trading a potentially injured survivor for one who is healthy, their gen won't automatically regress since Ruin isn't a thing anymore.

Meanwhile the injured survivor can just go heal under Boon: Circle of Healing or use their medkit, so the time I devoted to them is wasted now.

None of this is to say that the survivors are doing anything wrong. They're playing the game efficiently. But like I said, if they play efficiently, I also have to play efficiently, and that means getting someone out of the game to even the odds.

The alternative is to bring like 4 slowdowns or play for a 3gen with the genkick meta. Pick your poison. (of course killers can tunnel AND bring 4 slowdowns, but still)

Edit: I want to clarify though, I think this is a GOOD THING. The game should not be balanced around how merciful the killer is feeling.

I do agree with the efficiency, I just don't understand why a killer picks a certain survivor in the first place. Typically if i'm killer and I need to at-least get 1 kill through means of tunneling, I'd go for someone with more equipment like flashlights or toolboxes or someone with a specific perk. I try to stay away from killers mostly withoput running any items and I've died the last 15 games in a row (IRI 1 the past few seasons and IRI 1 Killer last season). Like I just don't get it bro

Maybe I'm just bad at the game lol

[Radbound]

Because gens are so easy now and most survivors bring the most busted stuff to "win". As a killer you can't just passively stand by and let gens get done without getting a result.

[Zakon]

Originally posted by BlueBoi:

I do agree with the efficiency, I just don't understand why a killer picks a certain survivor in the first place. Typically if i'm killer and I need to at-least get 1 kill through means of tunneling, I'd go for someone with more equipment like flashlights or toolboxes or someone with a specific perk. I try to stay away from killers mostly withoput running any items and I've died the last 15 games in a row (IRI 1 the past few seasons and IRI 1 Killer last season). Like I just don't get it bro

Maybe I'm just bad at the game lol

It kinda depends on your definition of tunneling.

Like I think tunneling should only really mean that you're focusing on one survivor to the exclusion of all others. I don't do that. But a lot of people regard tunneling as being a much more broad topic.

Like for example, do you regard tunneling as the killer hooked you, just finished hooking someone else, then saw you again and decided to chase you? Because I used to pretend I didn't see survivors who I had hooked recently, but now I don't look the other way anymore.

This is the kind of "tunneling" that I think is much more necessary than it used to be. Repeatedly gunning for one person to the exclusion of all others is... not necessary and may not even be the right play, because there's always the chance they're the strong looper on their team.

[BlueBoi]

Originally posted by Zakon:

Originally posted by BlueBoi:

I do agree with the efficiency, I just don't understand why a killer picks a certain survivor in the first place. Typically if i'm killer and I need to at-least get 1 kill through means of tunneling, I'd go for someone with more equipment like flashlights or toolboxes or someone with a specific perk. I try to stay away from killers mostly withoput running any items and I've died the last 15 games in a row (IRI 1 the past few seasons and IRI 1 Killer last season). Like I just don't get it bro

Maybe I'm just bad at the game lol

It kinda depends on your definition of tunneling.

Like I think tunneling should only really mean that you're focusing on one survivor to the exclusion of all others. I don't do that. But a lot of people regard tunneling as being a much more broad topic.

Like for example, do you regard tunneling as the killer hooked you, just finished hooking someone else, then saw you again and decided to chase you? Because I used to pretend I didn't see survivors who I had hooked recently, but now I don't look the other way anymore.

This is the kind of "tunneling" that I think is much more necessary than it used to be. Repeatedly gunning for one person to the exclusion of all others is... not necessary and may not even be the right play, because there's always the chance they're the strong looper on their team.

Example: I just finished a game against nurse. Finally finished all the gens after a really rough tunneling, only to have a teammate literally sit on the ground with nurse constantly following them to let bleed counter expire. Then when a survivor wants to save, nurse downs me and then hooks me and face camps while hitting me till the game ends. Like idk what I did wrong at all that game. I did my gens, never tea bagged, didn't use an item, didn't even pallet stun, I just escaped one or two chases. What constitutes tunneling in that case like that?

[Mason]

I literally never tunnel, but there are plenty of occasions where tunneling would benefit me greatly. The problem is the fact this game is designed around getting kills, people are under the influence that killer should kill the survivors no matter what. That it's technically their job to kill the survivors, but that's where the issue lies.

This game should be designed around primarily getting hooks, not kills. Give killers MORE incentive to go for hooks, and hook all survivors, instead of introducing new perks or anything that does nothing but encourage that boring tunnel/ camp playstyle.

I don't like tunneling, and as I said, I never do it myself. But you have to understand tunneling is a valid strat and it is almost always needed to win at higher levels.

Reward killers for going for different survivors, give us a reason to not tunnel the same survivor. Give us a reason to go for more hooks, not just focusing on getting kills. And yeah you do get more bps for getting good chases and hooking other survivors, but it's not enough. Killers that employ the tunneling/ camping tactics don't give a sh*t about bps, they care about winning the game.

[Mr. Quasar]

Killer is awful to play, and I mean truly awful. I used to be a Killer main and now when I play Killer I find myself wanting to quit the game after 1-2 matches when I used to be able to play for hours. They are forced into tunnelling as normally, first chase you are losing at least 2 gens. So Survs have done 40%, when you have done... 8.33% as killer. Big woop right...? Along side this, you are FORCED to run gen slowdown perks, which btw every good one gets nerfed into ♥♥♥♥ the next update anyways so you won't be having fun with it very long... and as I said you are forced to run this slowdown? Yeah you don't really get a choice otherwise gens fly faster than a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Spitfire in World War 2. So often these builds consist of 3-4 slowdown perks, very fun right? Oh wait and yeah Prove Thyself exists to counter this, that new perk with the new Surv is gonna counter this... then you have all the chase perks that counter perks like Eruption or even Scourge Hook... these are the reasons Killers are tunnelling, they NEED to in order to win.

Don't get me wrong, as a Survivor I find it super aggravating when it happens but also part of me understands and I really can't get mad knowing that it has to happen

[Zakon]

Originally posted by BlueBoi:

Example: I just finished a game against nurse. Finally finished all the gens after a really rough tunneling, only to have a teammate literally sit on the ground with nurse constantly following them to let bleed counter expire. Then when a survivor wants to save, nurse downs me and then hooks me and face camps while hitting me till the game ends. Like idk what I did wrong at all that game. I did my gens, never tea bagged, didn't use an item, didn't even pallet stun, I just escaped one or two chases. What constitutes tunneling in that case like that?

That's different.

Like I understand a situation where the Nurse just lost all 5 gens so she goes into crisis mode and tries to win off of slugging all of the survivors. I think that doing that is a bit mean, but if she really wants to win, it does make sense as a plan.

But the hitting on hook and forcefully bleeding you out thing suggests she's mad and taking it out on you.

There's a chance that they just got rolled in their previous game and they're angry about it so they're taking it out on you.

Or it could be this game's horrible "us vs them" mentality making her dehumanize you in her mind as being a dirty survivor main who deserves it.

I hope you can understand the difference between what I was talking about and what Otz is talking about in the video I recommended, versus someone picking the literal most overpowered killer in the game and going out of her way to rub in her victory.

[MrPifo]

Because the devs literally re-balanced the game so that tunneling is now more required and effective than before. There is no in-game reward for the killer not to tunnel. All Anti-Tunnel killer perks have been nerfed like BBQ. Welcome to the new Meta, adjust yourself and your perks and live with it. We cant do anything until Behaviour releases the next big balance patch.

[Truth seeker]

Originally posted by BlueBoi:

Bruh why is the meta just to tunnel or face-camp now. What happened to when dbd had proper survivor/killer etiquette?

Perk that reward other play style got nerf to the ground leaving only tunneling and camping as a valid option.

[RamboRusina]

Because killers have less and worse tools than before which pushes them more and more towards tools that do work. If 4 gen perks will buy you 30 seconds every hook or you make bunch of info perks that save you 3-5 seconds in finding and chasing somebody obviously killer will go for the gen perks. Similarly gen perks getting nerfed is pushing them to work with other tools that work, that's tunneling people out ASAP. You don't have the luxury nor incentive to split the preassure.

Maps are too big to traverse, loops too safe, healing too fast/abundant, gens too fast, etc. If you want tunneling/camping fixed you need to both give killers tools and incentive to go out and balance that by giving tools/mechanics that deny or make tunnel/camp harder. Make looping skillbased so getting rid of safe/god loops for most part, Fix W holding with some sort of fatigue system, add additional/alternative objectives to make surv obj longer, some info baseline like BBQ and undying, give movement speed buff similar to devour after hooking and leaving the area.
Then balance that with stuff like surv DS baseline, hook timers slowing down when killer is near and long enough hooked person can press button for entity moves you across the map to different hook, more info perks baseline that SWF get for free so there is lesser double standard of balance between solo and SWF.
Problem is that Bhvr is never gonna go into such large scale overhaul nor were they open to DBD2. Essentially we are stuck with bandaid fixes they keep throwing and quite frankly they will never fix the root of the problem.

[Shmops]

Bruh there wass no such time as when dbd had proper survivor/killer etiquette/

[Birnbaum]

Originally posted by Shmops:

Bruh there wass no such time as when dbd had proper survivor/killer etiquette/

First of all, as somebody who played since release, this is truth, there was never etiquette. Killers facecamped when you could only unhook from the front so the kill was guaranteed and survs perma sabo`d hooks so killer could do nothing but take a walk.
Second. Maps are too big, most structures and pallets are too safe, Gens pop too fast. then if survs use a perk too much it becomes basekit, when killer do the same it gets nerfed. then surv get other stuff for free like hud buff while killer get nothing, further weakening them. Now with boons hit and run, anti heal playstyles, and hexes all arent viable anymore so the only viable thing left for killer is slow down and tunneling or not play at all. Theres your answer. Have a nice weekend everybody <3

[Zakon]

Originally posted by Birnbaum:

then if survs use a perk too much it becomes basekit

Dude come on. It's not like Borrowed Time was just some popular perk like Dead Hard, its existence is just about the only thing that prevents camping and tunneling from being unstoppable strategies for the killer. It was a bandaid over a fundamental flaw in the game's design.

I cannot believe people are still complaining about basekit BT, I was only playing the game for like just over half a year when that happened (I joined right after Pinhead was added), and despite being a killer main, my reaction was just wondering what took them so long.