Honing Stone & Diamond Stone

[Boss]

So they mentioned that Honing Stone is an add-on that was used a lot by Trappers. So they made the Ultra Rare Diamond Stone which is basically the old Honing Stone and Honing Stone is now 50% chance to do the same as before.
But this won't change anything, right? Now people will just move on to saving up Diamond Stones. That peak they saw in Honing Stones being used? Yeah, that moves on to the Diamond Stone now.

That is, if people still play Killer.

[EnderW]

Duke a écrit :

1. Hillbilly got nice new addons, Wraith didn't get anything he didn't already have and Trapper got some new stuff which I've never used since they're bloody Ultra Rare.

2. Recovery time was a perfectly legitimate strat, all I needed to do was recover and when I'm 99% I can get 1 tapped up, Deerstalker was useless if Survivors would just recover while downed. This change was very unneccesary and means Iron Grasp is even more mandatory since you're forced to hook now or they'll be back up in 20 seconds or less. This indirectly also means Sabotage is now viable again.

3. "Added a bear trap immunity period after exiting a trap or being dropped by the killer" This isn't just about addressing the exploit. This means if you had two traps on either side of a window, only 1 would trigger if a Survivor went through it. I'm pretty sure it also effects wiggling free would mean you have 3 second trap immunity, so you could run straight through a trapped window after you wiggle free.

4. Deerstalker change was nerfed along with Nurses calling WHILE increasing recovery time. The nerf is 3 fold and it far too heavy hadned in favour of the Survivors. Either/or would have been fair but not all.

5. Regardless if you feel it was needed it was undoubtedly a nerf, Spies was a Killers best tracking perk. There was ALREADY a perk to counter Spies, it was called Calm Spirit but Survivors seem too greedy to want to run it. Which is hilarious because I ran Calm Spirit Lv2 on my Meg with great success, now it's just another free slot cause why would I bother with it anymore.

6. Nurse was awful and deserved everything she got, no fun to play against and the worst designed killer in the game. I'd be happy if they nerfed her again just to make sure.

7. I just picked up a common First Aid Kit, slapped bandages on it and with Self-Care it seems to have infinate durability, I hope that's bugged.

1. Wraith got a new addon, Trapper got a bunch of new addons only one of which is ultra rare (the diamond stone)

2. deerstalker never triggered from the survivor recovering themselves, the change was needed it took too long to recover when on the ground to the point that the killer could go hunt down everyone else and the 1st survivor would only just have reached full recovery and have no one to pick them up

3. I do not think it triggers when you wiggle free, if they stepped into 1 trap they are trapped how would they then vault the window and into another trap? this immunity was only put in to fix the exploit and it only fixes the exploit nothing more.

4. nurses calling was a small range nerf it's still a powerful perk, I already explained why it was done, I could repeat myself if you want?

5. Yes you could use Calm Spirit but it was at the point where it was a must have or you die perk, the devs have said they do not want any must have perks

6. she needed the nerf, shes fine how she is now

7. it probably is, as I said the toolboxes don't seem to work correctly

[DIZI]

For me they not need to nerf this stone.
I think in High Rank killer need an powerfull attack like the one shot of Billy.

And it's an Add-on so you lose it after a game, trapps can be counter easly by survivors.

This nerf was not necessery, I understund the nerf of Deerstalker but for not this one.

PS: The nerf of Noed was not necessery too, beacause why survivors still in the map
after the power is up ? If you want farm deal with noed.

Everybody forget that, this game would be like slasher movie of 80s, the survivors
have to feel the fear like in movie, but that not work like that now.
Did you saw a survivor teabagging Jason or Leatherface ? ^^

[EnderW]

Boss a écrit :

LUE EnderW a écrit :

Obviously the devs doubled the recovery time because there was an issue there, some survivors were asking to be able to get up if the bar is filled and the devs did what they did instead as a middle ground between what we had and what people were suggesting so it is very unlikely they will ever do that.

Very unlikely, yes. And yet, with there being way more Survivors to back up statements...that very unlikely could easily change.

The devs don't make changes based on complaints, they look at things based on complaints and then test them, look at stats, decide for themselves what to do

[Boss]

;350542683206910301 a écrit :

Boss a écrit :

Very unlikely, yes. And yet, with there being way more Survivors to back up statements...that very unlikely could easily change.

The devs don't make changes based on complaints, they look at things based on complaints and then test them, look at stats, decide for themselves what to do

I am aware of that. What i am saying is: What if 1 person has a complaint and no one backs it up? Will they look at it? Highly unlikely. Rack that up to 99.999 more players and you got yourself a highly likely.

[EnderW]

DAD ZOM.B a écrit :

Did you saw a survivor teabagging Jason

Well since I've been watching those movies while waiting for games because of matchmaking:

I saw a survivor shoot him with a shotgun...more than once
I saw a survivor hit him in the head with his own machete
I saw a survivor chain a big ass rock around his neck and trap him in a lake

and so on... tl;dr the killer doesn't win, do you want it to be like that?

and that's without the special powers that the entity is said to give both the killers and survivors in DbD

[EnderW]

Boss a écrit :

;350542683206910301 a écrit :

The devs don't make changes based on complaints, they look at things based on complaints and then test them, look at stats, decide for themselves what to do

I am aware of that. What i am saying is: What if 1 person has a complaint and no one backs it up? Will they look at it? Highly unlikely. Rack that up to 99.999 more players and you got yourself a highly likely.

You mean like how killers are complaining about the flashlight so they're going to break it again?

Because yeah...maybe it will happen but so far I only see it happening in killers favor.

[Boss]

LUE EnderW a écrit :

Boss a écrit :

I am aware of that. What i am saying is: What if 1 person has a complaint and no one backs it up? Will they look at it? Highly unlikely. Rack that up to 99.999 more players and you got yourself a highly likely.

You mean like how killers are complaining about the flashlight so they're going to break it again?

Because yeah...maybe it will happen but so far I only see it happening in killers favor.

Speaking of that little riot, i wonder if the developers would actually see a significant drop in Killers. I'm not gonna speculate on the rate though, cause i think it's small if any drop at all.

[EnderW]

Boss a écrit :

LUE EnderW a écrit :

You mean like how killers are complaining about the flashlight so they're going to break it again?

Because yeah...maybe it will happen but so far I only see it happening in killers favor.

Speaking of that little riot, i wonder if the developers would actually see a significant drop in Killers. I'm not gonna speculate on the rate though, cause i think it's small if any drop at all.

I doubt it to be honest even with the guy that made the "lets all boycott" thread I've seen the same if not more killers as before, when I can actually get a game because of the matchmaking issues

I've personally had no issues when I play killer (and have been playing it more because I can actually get a game as killer) and anyone I've actually asked outside of the forum hasn't had an issue either.

[Duke]

LUE EnderW a écrit :

1. Wraith got a new addon, Trapper got a bunch of new addons only one of which is ultra rare (the diamond stone)

2. deerstalker never triggered from the survivor recovering themselves, the change was needed it took too long to recover when on the ground to the point that the killer could go hunt down everyone else and the 1st survivor would only just have reached full recovery and have no one to pick them up

3. I do not think it triggers when you wiggle free, if they stepped into 1 trap they are trapped how would they then vault the window and into another trap? this immunity was only put in to fix the exploit and it only fixes the exploit nothing more.

4. nurses calling was a small range nerf it's still a powerful perk, I already explained why it was done, I could repeat myself if you want?

5. Yes you could use Calm Spirit but it was at the point where it was a must have or you die perk, the devs have said they do not want any must have perks

6. she needed the nerf, shes fine how she is now

7. it probably is, as I said the toolboxes don't seem to work correctly

1. Wraith Addon is Ultra Rare, Trapepr addons are indeed Very Rare.

2. I disagree completely, the time it takes to recover while in dying state is compensation for how long it takes to actually down a decent Survivor. A chase against a good Survivor can likely take 2 minutes on a good day. The recovery time is a stupid change that just rewards Survivors for playing badly and getting caught. If I juke the Killer for 3 minutes and I can recover in 20 seconds does that seem fair to you?

3. If they step into a trap and free themselves on the first/second struggle then hop a window they're immune to the trap on the other side. The patch notes say "dropped" by the Killer so I assume(though I'm not certain) that it also affects wiggles as they count as a drop. I also don't know if Flashlight rescues also count towards this immunity.

4. Your justification for the nerf is based soley on the perk as it existed standalone. The nerfs are compounded by the fact Nurses Calling, Deerstalker and recovery time (which are all an integral part of this "dying state" strategy you loathe so much) strategy and mean that nerfing all of them is an unreasonably drastic change

5. Calm Spirit was never a must have perk, most good Survivors didn't need Calm Spirit because they could escape the Killer with a Spritburst or a few pallets. With this change now both Calm Spirit and Spies are much worse.

[DIZI]

LUE EnderW a écrit :

DAD ZOM.B a écrit :

Did you saw a survivor teabagging Jason

Well since I've been watching those movies while waiting for games because of matchmaking:

I saw a survivor shoot him with a shotgun...more than once
I saw a survivor hit him in the head with his own machete
I saw a survivor chain a big ass rock around his neck and trap him in a lake

and so on... tl;dr the killer doesn't win, do you want it to be like that?

and that's without the special powers that the entity is said to give both the killers and survivors in DbD

I saw one survivors trayed to boxe him and he lose his head...
I have more exemple as you but excuse me but I need more vocabulary.

You don't understund what I wanted to show, or you don't want to understund.

But no matter

[TheAnimeMan]

LUE EnderW a écrit :

Yes but Diamond stones are ultra rare.

Whats more interesting is that a 1 time use item that insta downs is seen as OP

but hillbilly's chainsaw which is not an item (he always has it) insta downs unless he uses an addon that no one ever uses and is seen as fine.

You see the idea is to not walk onto a trap

[EnderW]

Duke a écrit :

1. Wraith Addon is Ultra Rare, Trapepr addons are indeed Very Rare.

2. I disagree completely, the time it takes to recover while in dying state is compensation for how long it takes to actually down a decent Survivor. A chase against a good Survivor can likely take 2 minutes on a good day. The recovery time is a stupid change that just rewards Survivors for playing badly and getting caught. If I juke the Killer for 3 minutes and I can recover in 20 seconds does that seem fair to you?

3. If they step into a trap and free themselves on the first/second struggle then hop a window they're immune to the trap on the other side. The patch notes say "dropped" by the Killer so I assume(though I'm not certain) that it also affects wiggles as they count as a drop. I also don't know if Flashlight rescues also count towards this immunity.

4. Your justification for the nerf is based soley on the perk as it existed standalone. The nerfs are compounded by the fact Nurses Calling, Deerstalker and recovery time (which are all an integral part of this "dying state" strategy you loathe so much) strategy and mean that nerfing all of them is an unreasonably drastic change

5. Calm Spirit was never a must have perk, most good Survivors didn't need Calm Spirit because they could escape the Killer with a Spritburst or a few pallets. With this change now both Calm Spirit and Spies are much worse.

1. off the top of my head (as a trapper player based on the ones I've seen so far) 1 is ultra rare (pink) 2 are very rare (purple) 2 of are rare (green) 1 is yellow (uncommon)

2. I don't think it's 20 seconds, imo it's fair, obviously in yours its not, this could go on all day.

3. It probably does count if they wiggle free then, but it was intended to stop the exploit and it lasts 3 seconds it's unlikely to be an issue in a real game.

4. if you run nurses calling and deerstalker then the only nerf is to the nurses calling range which is a small nerf, deal with it.

5. they added crows everywhere on the map there was almost nowhere to hide unless you had Calm Spirit something needed to be done, they chose a lesser option than an outright nerf.

[Duke]

LUE EnderW a écrit :

Duke a écrit :

1. Wraith Addon is Ultra Rare, Trapepr addons are indeed Very Rare.

2. I disagree completely, the time it takes to recover while in dying state is compensation for how long it takes to actually down a decent Survivor. A chase against a good Survivor can likely take 2 minutes on a good day. The recovery time is a stupid change that just rewards Survivors for playing badly and getting caught. If I juke the Killer for 3 minutes and I can recover in 20 seconds does that seem fair to you?

3. If they step into a trap and free themselves on the first/second struggle then hop a window they're immune to the trap on the other side. The patch notes say "dropped" by the Killer so I assume(though I'm not certain) that it also affects wiggles as they count as a drop. I also don't know if Flashlight rescues also count towards this immunity.

4. Your justification for the nerf is based soley on the perk as it existed standalone. The nerfs are compounded by the fact Nurses Calling, Deerstalker and recovery time (which are all an integral part of this "dying state" strategy you loathe so much) strategy and mean that nerfing all of them is an unreasonably drastic change

5. Calm Spirit was never a must have perk, most good Survivors didn't need Calm Spirit because they could escape the Killer with a Spritburst or a few pallets. With this change now both Calm Spirit and Spies are much worse.

1. off the top of my head (as a trapper player based on the ones I've seen so far) 1 is ultra rare (pink) 2 are very rare (purple) 2 of are rare (green) 1 is yellow (uncommon)

2. I don't think it's 20 seconds, imo it's fair, obviously in yours its not, this could go on all day.

3. It probably does count if they wiggle free then, but it was intended to stop the exploit and it lasts 3 seconds it's unlikely to be an issue in a real game.

4. if you run nurses calling and deerstalker then the only nerf is to the nurses calling range which is a small nerf, deal with it.

5. they added crows everywhere on the map there was almost nowhere to hide unless you had Calm Spirit something needed to be done, they chose a lesser option than an outright nerf.

1. You're right Trapper got some new toys, Wraith got shunned RIP.

2. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. But a lot of people I know aswell as streamers who mainly play Survivor have said these changes were completely unneccesary.

3. I agree with it stopping the exploit but the way they did it I don't agree with. Those 3 seconds could and likely will make a difference if all of the above scenarios actually grant the immunity.

4. Deal with it? Good argument, you got me there. You're not reading what I'm saying. Deerstalker is fine if now it has to be combo'd with Nurses calling but the range difference for the cost of 2 perk slots is very awkward. The fact that this strategy is pretty much dead due to the speed at which Survivors can recover now means they're both 3 times worse than before. If you honestly think you deserve to be on your feet that fast after you've ran the Killer around the map all game then there's nothing I can say to make you see reason.

5. There were plenty of places, the only real culprate of crow overpopulation was Asylum and again nobody used Calm Spirit because Spies wasn't that scary to begin witj; since it had to be in range and it was still only a 75% chance.

[Ragnarok]

Duke a écrit :

Boss a écrit :

mfw people are touchy enough about buffs and nerfs on Perks to change subject completely

Perk discussions factor into the balances of Survivor and Killers. The devs have stated the nerf was based on the statistics of the Honing Stone causing a huge discrepancy in Trapper win rates.

As I've already addressed your original post, having Honing Stones basically Ultra Rare dramatically affects their availability. How many times per month do you see an Ebony Memento Mori? Almost never, that's the same rarity as a Diamond Stone now. You won't see them other than as an outlier "surprise" gimmick.

Need more Tar Bottles. Tahts the best item. Tar Bottles need to be more often xD

I mean ,its so easy to see traps without usiung it :(

[Duke]

Shrek a écrit :

Duke a écrit :

Perk discussions factor into the balances of Survivor and Killers. The devs have stated the nerf was based on the statistics of the Honing Stone causing a huge discrepancy in Trapper win rates.

As I've already addressed your original post, having Honing Stones basically Ultra Rare dramatically affects their availability. How many times per month do you see an Ebony Memento Mori? Almost never, that's the same rarity as a Diamond Stone now. You won't see them other than as an outlier "surprise" gimmick.

Need more Tar Bottles. Tahts the best item. Tar Bottles need to be more often xD

I mean ,its so easy to see traps without usiung it :(

If only Tar bottles worked vs Small Game :(