To all who says "using comms while playing SWF is not cheating".

[Karnarax]

Perks are granted without necessity to equip them while using comms in SWF: Aftercare, Alert, Better Together, Bond, Buclke Up, Dark Sense, Déjà Vu, Empathy, Kindred, Object of Obsession, Open-Handed, Premonition, Visionary.

Killers perks countered: Corrupt Intervention, Dark Devotion, Discordance, Dragon's Grip (injured survivor taps the gen), Franklin's Demise, Hex: The Third Seal, Infectious Fright, Insidious, Knock Out (aura reading part), Make Your Choice (injured survivor goes for the rescue), Monitor & Abuse, Tinkerer, Trail of Torment.

Killers power countered: Trapper (one player just follows him around and disarms his traps/calling em out), Hag (same stuff, disabling them if he has flashlight), Pig (not popping gens when someone has a trap), Ghost Face, Twins (holding Victor hostage while another player is around).

Now tell me - how is this not cheating?

[Pixie Paws]

It is. And SWF must be adressed. But it won't. It's a money making for them. Sadly.
And yeah the game was designed to be soloq.

[Axx]

It isn't cheating because the devs have said it isn't. It does however give a huge unfair advantage that some players are able to take advantage of.

[ITWASMYCAT]

It isn't cheating as in hacking or a "bannable offense".

That said, I feel sorry for SWFs that act cocky when they are at a clear advantage and bully baby killers. Use your advantage to play a fairer game, without meta perks, to actually GET GOOD. I cant respect survivors that t-bag while playing SWF

[Gordonov]

It isn't cheating. And you make one big mistake: You think all SWF-groups are the same, they all play the same way and they all do what you mentioned above.

Good news for you, you are wrong.

[Karnarax]

Originally posted by Gordonov:

It isn't cheating. And you make one big mistake: You think all SWF-groups are the same, they all play the same way and they all do what you mentioned above.

Good news for you, you are wrong.

Well I wish I was but it feels like I'm right.

[Gordonov]

Originally posted by K1llerPunchl1ne:

Originally posted by Gordonov:

It isn't cheating. And you make one big mistake: You think all SWF-groups are the same, they all play the same way and they all do what you mentioned above.

Good news for you, you are wrong.

Well I wish I was but it feels like I'm right.

No, you are wrong. I play with SWF in different groups. No one ever had the idea of following a hag or a trapper to take care of traps. No one 99% a gen when someone had a beartrap.

And the perks? Example for communication:
"Hey, I have a gen at 40%, can you come over and help me?"
"Sure, where are you?"
"I don't know... I can see the mainbuilding."
"It's in the middle of the map, you can see it from everywhere."

What you discribe is not the normal casual SWF-group. Your description is only for tryhard-SWF-groups and I#m pretty sure they are the minority.

[elitkrumpleeharcos]

Usually if you want to deal with a "Sure SWF" team then take this build on any killer(without addon modifications, so this works on myers too, but only when tiered):
HEX: Third Seal
Knock Out
Distressing
Infectious fright
Map offering: Game map/lery's memorial

They will 100% lose if you slug them.

Reasoning: This only applies to public matches, because in matches where your perks are revealed you are scre*ed, but in normal public matches this works wonders.

No one expects third seal as it is an underrated perk, but in an environment like game or lery's it becomes a death trap, because the totems are hard to find and knock out prevents both sides of aura reading making their communication a neccessity and not a option, which will make it harder for them to focus on generators. Always slug 1 person and hook the rest, that way you get 25% of their power off.

Apart from that the addons you choose.

Also distressing can be replaced with the followings:
Thanatophobia
HEX: Ruin
Dark Devotion(funny one actually)
Tinkerer
HEX: Undying
Deerstalker (if you are a noob, sry, but really. if you cannot locate survivors without this, you are a noob)
Startstruck (You can combine with infectious fright, by picking up survivor, then dropping it and now everyone affected will be exposed.)
Save the best for last

Fun bonus if you play pig, you literally make the game a jigsaw puzzle for them, hehe.

[Karnarax]

Originally posted by elitkrumpliharcos:

Usually if you want to deal with a "Sure SWF" team then take this build on any killer(without addon modifications, so this works on myers too, but only when tiered):
HEX: Third Seal
Knock Out
Distressing
Infectious fright
Map offering: Game map/lery's memorial

They will 100% lose if you slug them.

Reasoning: This only applies to public matches, because in matches where your perks are revealed you are scre*ed, but in normal public matches this works wonders.

No one expects third seal as it is an underrated perk, but in an environment like game or lery's it becomes a death trap, because the totems are hard to find and knock out prevents both sides of aura reading making their communication a neccessity and not a option, which will make it harder for them to focus on generators. Always slug 1 person and hook the rest, that way you get 25% of their power off.

Apart from that the addons you choose.

Also distressing can be replaced with the followings:
Thanatophobia
HEX: Ruin
Dark Devotion(funny one actually)
Tinkerer
HEX: Undying
Deerstalker (if you are a noob, sry, but really. if you cannot locate survivors without this, you are a noob)
Startstruck (You can combine with infectious fright, by picking up survivor, then dropping it and now everyone affected will be exposed.)
Save the best for last

Thank you man I will sure try it!

[Hand's Hermit Permit]

They could easily address the SWF voice comms cheating thing by giving built-in voice comms to solo queue lobbies, but they wont do that and ruin the game's immersion.

The reason they cannot and will not balance the game is because they're selling an experience to solo queue people and groups of friends, and balancing the game will cut into their sales.

[Boodger]

What loser is going to play a game with friends and not talk with them in discord while playing.

[glythe]

Originally posted by Boodger:

What loser is going to play a game with friends and not talk with them in discord while playing.

The problem is that talking just once can save 40 seconds. And you can do this multiple times per game.

A SWF can save 2-4 minutes of game time by talking.

The Survivor objective is 240 seconds at red ranks and the killer objective is closer to 600 seconds. Imagine if the killer could do something to decrease his objective by 4 minutes.

That means the killer could get 11 hooks in 360 seconds and the survivor objective still takes 240 seconds. See the problem?

[Evil Minіоn]

Originally posted by K1llerPunchl1ne:

Now tell me - how is this not cheating?

By cultural convention and for the sake of people having fun with their friends out of game communication (voice chat, being in the same room) within the same team is not considered cheating. Devs are expected to factor in the possibility of voice coms in multiplayer games and balance accordingly. If they fail to do so it's not the players fault.

By the same logic salty people call voice coms "cheating" things like reading/watching guides and gameplay from better players would be considered "cheating" as well, because you also use out of game communications to get an advantage ingame.

[hghwolf]

Originally posted by Hand's Hermit Permit:

The reason they cannot and will not balance the game is because they're selling an experience to solo queue people and groups of friends, and balancing the game will cut into their sales.

Right. The issue is, and always has been, that with the advantage SwF grants DbD has to balance around two 'points'; killer vs solos and killer vs SwFs, with the caveat that they cannot impact SwF balance without also impacting solo balance and vice versa. Well they COULD, but they're unwilling to because yes, SwFs will stop playing/buying.

Historically the 'solution' has been to put killers in the uncomfortable spot where they're favourably balanced against solos and unfavourably balanced against SwFs, so you've basically got two different games essentially fulcrumming around the killer role, creating something that, in the right light and, more importantly, when viewed statistically, looks like balance.

[Boodger]

Originally posted by glythe:

Originally posted by Boodger:

What loser is going to play a game with friends and not talk with them in discord while playing.

The problem is that talking just once can save 40 seconds. And you can do this multiple times per game.

A SWF can save 2-4 minutes of game time by talking.

The Survivor objective is 240 seconds at red ranks and the killer objective is closer to 600 seconds. Imagine if the killer could do something to decrease his objective by 4 minutes.

That means the killer could get 11 hooks in 360 seconds and the survivor objective still takes 240 seconds. See the problem?

And my point is that as far as I am concerned, having a good time gaming with the buds is more important to me than balance.

But I still sweep up SWF often when I play killer.

SWF often even play worse. They are over-altruistic. And I can tell you that most of the groups I have SWF voice-commed with are 10% game talk, 90% bullshitting around and joking and wild monkey screaming.

[General Sombré]

If they remove SWF i'm never playing survivor again, I'd complain about the matchmaking before though (I randomly get put against rank 3-4 when I'm rank 12 killer)