Dead by Daylight

Dead by Daylight

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Jwill Jul 21, 2021 @ 12:11pm
Nemesis vs Pyramid Head
I've seen that a lot of people put PH above Nemesis, but i think Nemesis is stronger in mid-end game. His power is faster than PH's power so that makes Nemesis better on pallet loop situations. Since their powers are generally used in loop situations, the speed factor is important. And i actually enjoy Nemesis more.
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Illaoi Bot (Banned) Jul 21, 2021 @ 12:31pm 
PH power goes through objects

his trail and cages are more usefull then zombies


lets just get this straight in every non indoor map PH is better then nemesis


in indoor maps zombies if they dont bug in a wall are OP as hell



but for me it doesnt matter i choose nemesis over conehead everyday
♡Pure♡ Jul 21, 2021 @ 12:36pm 
naw nemesis can be countered by throwing pallets down early. then he never gets his max power. PH can still hit you thru walls and can counter borrowed time.

if the survivors are good then nemesis never reaches max potential.
Fab Jul 21, 2021 @ 12:39pm 
At low rank PH is stronger. At high rank Nemesis is stronger. You have less room to mind game competent players with PH. Zombies give you information or can delay gens. And your tentacle create dead zones once it's evolved and that you can destroy pallets and wooden doors in no time.
Additionally for PH, you can ironically help the survivors if you cage them at the wrong place and they reset.

Fab Jul 21, 2021 @ 12:44pm 
Originally posted by Puré:
naw nemesis can be countered by throwing pallets down early. then he never gets his max power. PH can still hit you thru walls and can counter borrowed time.

if the survivors are good then nemesis never reaches max potential.

You don't seem to know but there are add-ons that increase the "XP" you get by killing your zombies, I always use one. It's always doable to level up regardless of the survivors skills.
Last edited by Fab; Jul 21, 2021 @ 12:45pm
Cujo Jul 21, 2021 @ 12:56pm 
Originally posted by Fab:
At low rank PH is stronger. At high rank Nemesis is stronger. You have less room to mind game competent players with PH. Zombies give you information or can delay gens. And your tentacle create dead zones once it's evolved and that you can destroy pallets and wooden doors in no time.
Additionally for PH, you can ironically help the survivors if you cage them at the wrong place and they reset.
The problem is that Nemesis gets destroyed by the Hold W meta. Just take the tentacle hits and run as far as you can and boom, 3 gens have popped and you've been hooked once. The speed boost on the infecting hit is BS and needs to be removed.
♡Pure♡ Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:07pm 
Originally posted by Fab:
At low rank PH is stronger. At high rank Nemesis is stronger. You have less room to mind game competent players with PH. Zombies give you information or can delay gens. And your tentacle create dead zones once it's evolved and that you can destroy pallets and wooden doors in no time.
Additionally for PH, you can ironically help the survivors if you cage them at the wrong place and they reset.

well nemesis takes 3 hits to down people if you go the tentacle route. most the addons for vaccine no killer uses. so survivors just use the 4 vaccines. theres 4 more hits.

if you're killing zombies how exactly are they preventing gens or locations. as survivor you can use zombies for speed boost or even block the nemesis.

PH can hit thru walls. so u get punished for doing any locked animation. with nemesis u just do one less loop and throw pallet down early. just avoid open loops and that counters his tentacle hit thru loop. smart PH can just cage someone and you know where cage will spawn and get tunnel 2 hit value.
renciasama (Banned) Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:15pm 
Nemesis is baby compare to PH, Nemesis needs a buff and nerf to his power at the same time. He needs a buff that he gets more Virus power when he is in stage one, and nerf that he gets less when he is in tier 2. Tier 1 nemesis is worst the trapper. Its killer without a power that somehow is easiest to stun in the whole game. His hitbox are really weird, Im playing him a lot latly and even fat Bubba doesnt get hit as easy as him. (its similar with pig, pig is also very easy to stun i dunno why)
Fab Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:15pm 
Originally posted by Cujo:
The problem is that Nemesis gets destroyed by the Hold W meta. Just take the tentacle hits and run as far as you can and boom, 3 gens have popped and you've been hooked once. The speed boost on the infecting hit is BS and needs to be removed.

I thought the same way at beginning but since then I think most people are playing him wrong. You're not supposed to use your tentacle as your main weapon. You use it when it's the best choice available, in the other scenarios you just M1. If you start your match thinking that you have to hit 3 times the first survivor you're chasing, you're setting up yourself for a loss.
For instance, imagine you're chasing a decent survivor that is running to reach a strong loop far from the objectives. If you can quickly down him/her with M1, do it. If not and if you have the opportunity, hit him with your tentacle and go elsewhere immediately. If you keep chaining smart decisions, you'll be able to slow down the survivors and if you slow down the survivors enough you'll become stronger while they have to deal with injuries, zombies or vaccine instead of doing gens.
Last edited by Fab; Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:16pm
Fab Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:31pm 
Originally posted by Puré:

if you're killing zombies how exactly are they preventing gens or locations. as survivor you can use zombies for speed boost or even block the nemesis.

You're not wasting time going to the zombies to kill them, if you see one in your path protecting nothing of value you kill it. And since you don't know, zombies can respawn quickly. Again there's an add-on that improves the respawn time (the same that increases the XP from zombies).
The speed boost from zombies during a chase can suck, but I rarely encountered that scenario and I don't think the trade off is terrible.

Originally posted by Puré:
PH can hit thru walls. so u get punished for doing any locked animation. with nemesis u just do one less loop and throw pallet down early.

As you say PH "can" hit through walls. Competent survivors will dodge that, mindgame, double-mind game your tentative hit. If you're doing that without aura-reading perks, you're gambling and potentially wasting a precious amount of time.
For Nemesis If you drop the pallets early in my game I would thank you. You help me to quickly create dead zones when I reach level 2.

Last edited by Fab; Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:33pm
Sirpnie Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:36pm 
Originally posted by Cujo:
The problem is that Nemesis gets destroyed by the Hold W meta. Just take the tentacle hits and run as far as you can and boom, 3 gens have popped and you've been hooked once. The speed boost on the infecting hit is BS and needs to be removed.

Sounds like a bad player tbh, you shouldn't bother wasting your time at the beginning ever downing someone unless you know for sure you'll get it in at most 30 seconds. With Nemesis, you'd hit with tentacle, then move on because you can find them later, just keep hitting people and level up. Then you can win the loop and pallet game pretty easy.

The "hold W meta" is "i'm bad so I keep chasing people who have a speed boost" meta. Because when someone tries to just run away from me at the end of the game, 1v1, hold W never works. You're the one wasting your time chasing someone you could never catch, so instead, you could use their running as information gathering, then go hit someone else. If there are 2 people at a gen, why would you even waste your time chasing the first hit and not actually hitting both? The goal is to protect gens and then kill people, so you force 2 off a gen, hit one, return to the gen and the other person is probably going to be trying to repair it because that's the best play they can generally make. That's 2 hits, 1 gen protected instead of 1 hit, a chase and a gen being worked on behind you. "then the first survivor will find the other 2 and get healed and those 3 finish a gen", Try nurses calling or discordance and you'll know where they are. Or other perks could work.

Now can survivors outplay killers, yeah, but is hold W going to win it for them? no. You have like 10x my hours or whatever so either it's just a meme I don't know, or you struggle as a killer and I don't. You get more mutation rate with nemesis if you hit a clean survivor. 3x as much. So why are you wasting your time chasing people, not leveling your ability? Sure I could agree removing the sprint after infection may be a good buff for nemesis, but I think what'd be a more balanced thing would be damage on the first hit as well as afflicting contamination rather than needing to hit a contaminated person for damage. But then the vaccine wouldn't be useful. There are only 4 vaccines, so you only have to hit 4 times for them to be unable to recover from it. So by the end game, they should have had to use all the vaccines or just won't use them because they don't want to be revealed.

So try tunneling less? I don't know, regardless of rank, I've had a fairly easy time. Most of my games I feel like I'm just bullying people. I play GF, Wraith and Huntress mostly. I really like scaring people with GF and that's why I play him. The best feeling is, "you made me scream and scare my roommates" in the post game chat.
Fab Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:43pm 
Overall I agree with Sirpnie. On the buff topic I think changing his tentacle effects on hit would make him OP or S-tier after the players take time to master him. The safest buff I could see would be to fix his zombies stuck in corners and reducing the amount of available vaccine (4 to 3 boxes). But personally, I would be very happy if they just fixed the zombies bugs.
Simple Tora (Banned) Jul 21, 2021 @ 1:50pm 
The easiest way see which is better:

There's a reason to choose PH over other killers (Trail gives faster killing, cages deny perks, power goes through walls etc)

There's NO reason to choose Nemesis over others: Power not only starts off weak but doesn't injure the first time. Killers with similar abilities all start off better and injure. Zombies are a joke don't even mention them. His tier 2 is one of the only benefits his power has over other "ranged" killers, his tier 3 just puts him on the lowest pedestal with the other "ranged" killers.

He's fun and if you enjoy RE go ahead and play him nothing wrong with having fun, but compared to any other killer with similarities to him you're just asking for more of a headache using him
Cujo Jul 21, 2021 @ 2:09pm 
Originally posted by Sirpnie:
Originally posted by Cujo:
The problem is that Nemesis gets destroyed by the Hold W meta. Just take the tentacle hits and run as far as you can and boom, 3 gens have popped and you've been hooked once. The speed boost on the infecting hit is BS and needs to be removed.

Sounds like a bad player tbh, you shouldn't bother wasting your time at the beginning ever downing someone unless you know for sure you'll get it in at most 30 seconds. With Nemesis, you'd hit with tentacle, then move on because you can find them later, just keep hitting people and level up. Then you can win the loop and pallet game pretty easy.

The "hold W meta" is "i'm bad so I keep chasing people who have a speed boost" meta. Because when someone tries to just run away from me at the end of the game, 1v1, hold W never works. You're the one wasting your time chasing someone you could never catch, so instead, you could use their running as information gathering, then go hit someone else. If there are 2 people at a gen, why would you even waste your time chasing the first hit and not actually hitting both? The goal is to protect gens and then kill people, so you force 2 off a gen, hit one, return to the gen and the other person is probably going to be trying to repair it because that's the best play they can generally make. That's 2 hits, 1 gen protected instead of 1 hit, a chase and a gen being worked on behind you. "then the first survivor will find the other 2 and get healed and those 3 finish a gen", Try nurses calling or discordance and you'll know where they are. Or other perks could work.

Now can survivors outplay killers, yeah, but is hold W going to win it for them? no. You have like 10x my hours or whatever so either it's just a meme I don't know, or you struggle as a killer and I don't. You get more mutation rate with nemesis if you hit a clean survivor. 3x as much. So why are you wasting your time chasing people, not leveling your ability? Sure I could agree removing the sprint after infection may be a good buff for nemesis, but I think what'd be a more balanced thing would be damage on the first hit as well as afflicting contamination rather than needing to hit a contaminated person for damage. But then the vaccine wouldn't be useful. There are only 4 vaccines, so you only have to hit 4 times for them to be unable to recover from it. So by the end game, they should have had to use all the vaccines or just won't use them because they don't want to be revealed.

So try tunneling less? I don't know, regardless of rank, I've had a fairly easy time. Most of my games I feel like I'm just bullying people. I play GF, Wraith and Huntress mostly. I really like scaring people with GF and that's why I play him. The best feeling is, "you made me scream and scare my roommates" in the post game chat.
I play a hella lot of Huntress and not much else, so it's not an issue I have personally. I play both sides pretty equally at rank 1. I don't make arguments most of the time based solely on my biased personal opinion. I spread damage every chance I get, but I don't expect it to have a demonstrable impact either.

Hold W in general is always a good idea in a chase against any killer that can't counter it. Nem is not a special case, he's just not an exception to the rule. Even if you go for a pure M1 strategy, you only make him as good as normal killers against this strat instead of being worse if you use tentacle.

Against good survivors, being injured really isn't that big of a deal. They will see you coming, start prerunning and revert back to solid looping. Heal speeds are fast enough and medkits are powerful enough that you don't lose a significant amount of time to make it worthwhile trying to spread your hits. It's always better than focusing down one person, but it's not good enough overall to win you games.

If all 4 survivors simply hold W every time they get hit and every time they see the killer coming, he really has no choice but to commit to a lengthy chase at some point to down someone. At rank 1, I find that on both sides, the second I commit to a chase with one of these people or the killer commits to me as a survivor, the game is won. I go down/down the survivor, 3 gens have popped, two more are halfway done, and I get my first hook. That is a winning position no matter which way you slice it.

It's not as noticeable because at lower ranks anything goes and nothing matters, and even high level survivors haven't caught on fully yet how powerful it is. But every once in a while when I play a basic killer for a daily, I run across a team who knows how long they can make me run, and the game is decided from the getgo no matter what I do.

Nemesis being able to damage on the first hit would be ok, but I still think it would be better if he got to land more tentacles for more mutation rate. I think that the speed boost hurts him for using his power successfully. It's not that big of a deal to be infected, you can save a vaccine until you actually need it, and all it does is allow him to give you another speed boost.
Sirpnie Jul 21, 2021 @ 3:37pm 
Originally posted by Cujo:
I play a hella lot of Huntress and not much else, so it's not an issue I have personally. I play both sides pretty equally at rank 1. I don't make arguments most of the time based solely on my biased personal opinion. I spread damage every chance I get, but I don't expect it to have a demonstrable impact either.

Hold W in general is always a good idea in a chase against any killer that can't counter it. Nem is not a special case, he's just not an exception to the rule. Even if you go for a pure M1 strategy, you only make him as good as normal killers against this strat instead of being worse if you use tentacle.

Against good survivors, being injured really isn't that big of a deal. They will see you coming, start prerunning and revert back to solid looping. Heal speeds are fast enough and medkits are powerful enough that you don't lose a significant amount of time to make it worthwhile trying to spread your hits. It's always better than focusing down one person, but it's not good enough overall to win you games.

If all 4 survivors simply hold W every time they get hit and every time they see the killer coming, he really has no choice but to commit to a lengthy chase at some point to down someone. At rank 1, I find that on both sides, the second I commit to a chase with one of these people or the killer commits to me as a survivor, the game is won. I go down/down the survivor, 3 gens have popped, two more are halfway done, and I get my first hook. That is a winning position no matter which way you slice it.

It's not as noticeable because at lower ranks anything goes and nothing matters, and even high level survivors haven't caught on fully yet how powerful it is. But every once in a while when I play a basic killer for a daily, I run across a team who knows how long they can make me run, and the game is decided from the getgo no matter what I do.

Nemesis being able to damage on the first hit would be ok, but I still think it would be better if he got to land more tentacles for more mutation rate. I think that the speed boost hurts him for using his power successfully. It's not that big of a deal to be infected, you can save a vaccine until you actually need it, and all it does is allow him to give you another speed boost.


If you know they're going to prerun, come from a direction that forces them to go towards their team. Being injured not mattering is frankly just BS, especially as nemesis, someone who hits over obstacles, like Huntress which you main. Eventually, players have to run out of loops that work and you can hit them through whatever loop if you play the right killer. You definitely don't leave a gen near the strongest loops. Personally, I rarely ever have 3 gens pop really fast because I don't let it. Sure maybe 2, then 1 more 40 seconds later or so because the first gen i interrupted finally finished.

But it goes, find first player on a gen, hit while moving towards others gens, check those gens, move on to other gens while first survivor goes back to gen 1 or one of those other gens that weren't touched while you find survivors at the other 3-4 gens left to check, if they are working 3 of those, you'll easily find another hit while gen 1 or 2-3 are barely halfway. gen 5-6 may pop after you hit second person, then you can chase one person from 5-6 or go back to 1 and get a down or injure. Progressively injuring everyone, because yes, injuries do matter because without exposed you need 2 hits to down someone. Injure, Corral, injure others, down, hook, if they rescue, 2 downs if you aren't bad, otherwise you just go and chase down another at the last 3 gens you've intentionally picked to be easy to get to. The goal is stalling the match as much as you can while you get the injuries, downs and protecting the gens. If the survivors can't escape, you can keep hitting them, so having a good cycle that keeps gens low, because eventually they have to be close it, you'll be able to chase them a bit, they'll have to use pallets or take a hit, eventually you get the kill.

Of course survivors can just outright out play you by hiding from you perfectly. But at that point, they basically earned the win. But it's not the holding W that actually wins it for them, it's the avoiding getting detected while pushing objective. There isn't a counter to being outplayed. Holding W is a deliberate time waste, you should know that since you play survivor too. If someone tunnels you at red ranks, you generally can expect the other survivors to be pushing the gens, so you can stall it as long as possible and it's the best choice you have because it's wasting the killers time. Stop wasting time chasing people holding W and suddenly that meta disappears. The only meta remaining is "gen rush".

I'm sure you know what chases you can commit to most of the time, and yeah, if you commit to a chase, it can decide the match, that's why you need to know what chases are the right one to take. Any that takes over 30 seconds is for sure a waste unless you have a huge lead, like 2 sacrifices and they only did 2 or 3 gens. Then you know they can only be working 1 gen so what's tunneling the other matter.

Just don't forget, survivors can outplay the killer. You can't guarantee the win as the killer regardless of how many strats you use. If you can't find them while they get objectives done, you've lost entirely. But then again, they won't get many points not getting chased and healing, so it's not likely happen at red or even purple because you need to do those things or you could derank easily, which could be intentional. I'm sure you are at least decent since you've made it to rank 1 though.
Sunset Sherbet Jul 21, 2021 @ 5:48pm 
I don't see the similarities between the two and having played both, I still don't. Makes as much sense to me as comparing Plague and Nem.
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Date Posted: Jul 21, 2021 @ 12:11pm
Posts: 15