Survivor Lobbiests too strong?

[Shady]

Do they have too firm of a grasp on this game?

I literally cannot think of a single video game where playing on a specific "team" is easier to win on. Especially a game where the opposite team is made up of human player(s).

And yet, at every turn, and at every opportunity, every single Survivor player in DBD scrambles to protect their current status by redirecting to "how strong Killers are" (almost like an "I know you are but what am I" routine), and how they see Killers "get 4k easily, all the time," and of course everyone's favorite, "I main Killer, you just need to get good."

It's one thing for this stuff to go on, but it's another for the game to still be at this point 5 years into it. (In fact, Survivors have probably never been stronger?)

The issue is only getting worse? And it will only keep getting worse??

Is the iron grip too tight???

[Xayah]

Killers and Survivors both always complain. Will never change. If a survivor hates X killer, people will say, "Your game hours show. Noob." Survivor perk too strong for killer? "You're a killer. You get broken perks." etc, etc.

Both sides are toxic. There isn't even a middle ground in this player base. I consider myself in there because 99% of killers I don't care about. The only killer I hate is Leatherface. The only perk I hate in the game is No-Ed. When I say I hate it, I get called a gen rusher. But the community tries to place it's own rules on both survivors and killers that everyone must follow. I got flamed by another survivor for having self care in the after game chat and he killed himself on the hook because of it because he refused to be in my game?

[Shady]

"Both sides are toxic" only technically applies, because PEOPLE are toxic. However, most Killers are just frustrated at how powerless the Killer role is. When a common strategy is to body block the Killer, because Survivors are THAT unafraid of literally touching the Killer's model, is that not when you realize that there's a HUGE issue? Killers are just weak. Unthreatening. And so its players are just mad.

Survivors, however, are toxic whether they win or lose. And that's because they just ARE toxic human beings. And that's BECAUSE Dead by Daylight directly attracts that kind of person, BECAUSE it offers free PvP video game victories to anyone willing to click "Play Survivor" in the game menu. And the people who tend to seek such validation, especially at the expense of others, do not tend to be good people.

This thread's about the power imbalance, not the toxicity. However, they are actually connected anyway, so, whatever.

[76561199133644023]

I do agree with it.Survivors can easily win if one survivor loops the killer for 90 seconds and the 3 other survivors are doing gens then there are 2 gens remaining and half of the game is gone.Especially for killers that do not really have map control or strong abilities

[Vinnie Huxhold]

Killer is the power role. Simple as that.

[Fabio]

i don't know about that. also there's no team, everyone wants me dead

[MrDark086]

Originally posted by TGB:

"Both sides are toxic" only technically applies, because PEOPLE are toxic. However, most Killers are just frustrated at how powerless the Killer role is. When a common strategy is to body block the Killer, because Survivors are THAT unafraid of literally touching the Killer's model, is that not when you realize that there's a HUGE issue? Killers are just weak. Unthreatening. And so its players are just mad.

Survivors, however, are toxic whether they win or lose. And that's because they just ARE toxic human beings. And that's BECAUSE Dead by Daylight directly attracts that kind of person, BECAUSE it offers free PvP video game victories to anyone willing to click "Play Survivor" in the game menu. And the people who tend to seek such validation, especially at the expense of others, do not tend to be good people.

This thread's about the power imbalance, not the toxicity. However, they are actually connected anyway, so, whatever.

Its a multiplayer game soooo everyones toxic to some degree. Its been that way since the we found internet gaming. Now we dont have to just berate and trash talk our friends. We can trash talk someone in Bangladesh, Britain, and even Mexico if we want :D that said survivors can certainly play that way. I play both sides and ive won games as a survivor employing the same body block tactics and ive lost games for it too. It all depends on your team and the killer. Ive been farmed, ive been saved, ive been bullied to 0 kills in games but then ive had games of wanna-be clicky clicky tbaggers who got overconfident and threw the entire game right at the end and secured all four kills. Both sides are imbalanced but how bad that imbalance affects your play and your results is also related to skill to varying degrees based on what killer you use and what perks you bring. A godlike Nurse may be a dogwater Billy. A sublime Myers player may not do well against some survivors playstyles.

Killers are frustrated for the same reasons Survivors are. Both sides have toxic tendencies and the community is constantly changing and striking down rules for itself that nobody cares about. Most of us are just here to play the game. I follow simple rules, i'm going to play at my best and make the win hard fought. If i see you get sandbagged by a teammate i'll let you escape via hatch and make sure that sandbagger gets tunneled right out. If you clicky clickly and tbag i have no issues tunneling you out as you've issued me a challenge and showed your overflowing confidence in your skill. If you brought in a key then its nothing personal but i have to get you out early so i dont risk losing all the survivors to a hatch play. If i'm on survivor side i dont tbag or clicky clicky. I disdain flashlights in general so i dont even bother bringing them unless its for an archive. The only time i tbag is if you as a killer are doing literal face camping or just outright being a prick for no reason (an example being slugging someone and just standing literally on the body the entire game and letting them bleed out instead of hooking) and thats because at the point you've earned being mocked or challenged. I used to hate NOED but i run a totem build now and i make sure i break every single totem before i even touch a gen so while my team gets objectives out im destroying all the totems so there isnt a cheeky NOED waiting at the end for us. I could whine and complain about the perk but instead im adapting my play to eliminate the problem. This helps the killer in its own way. They play enough rounds where they never get to see NOED pop off they wont use it anymore and will instead adapt and improve their play to not need NOED to secure a kill.

TLDR; everyones toxic in every multiplayer game that is the nature of the beast and neither side is balanced that is why this is an ASYMMETRICAL multiplayer game. You either improve and change your play or you lose

[Shady]

Yeah but, again, toxicity isn't the main focus of the thread. Even though it does tie in.

The focus is how much stronger Survivor side is.

And, of course, it's going to be hard to balance an asymmetrical game. However, the EXTENT of which Survivors are stronger is mind blowing.

I don't care about the bad group of Survivors that loses to good Killers. That is very clearly not what I care about, and yet, it's so heavily skewing everyone's understanding of the game's balance.

People have such poor analytical skills, it confounds me as to why those same people are also able to influence the game's direction so drastically.

[Kitten Airi]

Good news for survivors, the clothing glitch is back. You can now mix sets and stuff again

[Δ︎MΞ︎NTIH ✬]

Here we go again.. another X side is toxic, when in reality both sides are equally toxic.

[Kaldrak]

Originally posted by TGB:

Yeah but, again, toxicity isn't the main focus of the thread. Even though it does tie in.

The focus is how much stronger Survivor side is.

And, of course, it's going to be hard to balance an asymmetrical game. However, the EXTENT of which Survivors are stronger is mind blowing.

I don't care about the bad group of Survivors that loses to good Killers. That is very clearly not what I care about, and yet, it's so heavily skewing everyone's understanding of the game's balance.

People have such poor analytical skills, it confounds me as to why those same people are also able to influence the game's direction so drastically.

Mmm...the general consensus is that the difficulty goes like this: SWF>Killer>Solo Q.

The main problem is that the majority of players are survivor, and in the lower ranks of gameplay, not the higher ranks. So it throws off BHVR's beloved stats by a considerable amount. BHVR has balanced the game around bad players who don't look behind them when in chase and die suuuper easily, but the tools they give them don't help them too much, as they don't know how to use them properly. However, the higher skilled survivors still have access to those same tools.

So, in the higher ranks, the more effective the survivors are, the less power the killer has. All it takes is one or two really good survivors in a match to ruin a killer's day. And then when you add SWF into the equation, essentially handing out a level of coordination the game was never designed for...yeah, balance is shot all to hell at that point.

The game desperately needs a competitive mode and a casual mode, with the presumption of teamplay in competitive, and general buffs applied to killers and debuffs applied to survivors in that mode. And casual rank would just be meaningless BP farm.

Wouldn't fix the problem entirely, but would help. Never happen though. BHVR thinks the killers are generally overpowered, and cater to the majority of the player base (survivors).

[KAX]

The fact that Op actually said "Survivors have never been stronger" means that they are full of ♥♥♥♥ are only here to start a war.

Anyone who has played with literal infinite's 5 years ago will scoff at this nonsense. Anyone else remember when Killers couldn't kick gens? it was an added feature. Survivors could 99% EVERY GEN, and Killers couldn't do ♥♥♥♥. Insta blind flashlights??? Insta pop BNP???

The literal double window killer shack infinite??????

The game has never been more balanced.

Killers can actually play and win under their own power.

[Shady]

Originally posted by Kaldrak:

Originally posted by TGB:

Yeah but, again, toxicity isn't the main focus of the thread. Even though it does tie in.

The focus is how much stronger Survivor side is.

And, of course, it's going to be hard to balance an asymmetrical game. However, the EXTENT of which Survivors are stronger is mind blowing.

I don't care about the bad group of Survivors that loses to good Killers. That is very clearly not what I care about, and yet, it's so heavily skewing everyone's understanding of the game's balance.

People have such poor analytical skills, it confounds me as to why those same people are also able to influence the game's direction so drastically.

Mmm...the general consensus is that the difficulty goes like this: SWF>Killer>Solo Q.

The main problem is that the majority of players are survivor, and in the lower ranks of gameplay, not the higher ranks. So it throws off BHVR's beloved stats by a considerable amount. BHVR has balanced the game around bad players who don't look behind them when in chase and die suuuper easily, but the tools they give them don't help them too much, as they don't know how to use them properly. However, the higher skilled survivors still have access to those same tools.

So, in the higher ranks, the more effective the survivors are, the less power the killer has. All it takes is one or two really good survivors in a match to ruin a killer's day. And then when you add SWF into the equation, essentially handing out a level of coordination the game was never designed for...yeah, balance is shot all to hell at that point.

The game desperately needs a competitive mode and a casual mode, with the presumption of teamplay in competitive, and general buffs applied to killers and debuffs applied to survivors in that mode. And casual rank would just be meaningless BP farm.

Wouldn't fix the problem entirely, but would help. Never happen though. BHVR thinks the killers are generally overpowered, and cater to the majority of the player base (survivors).

Yes. This exactly.

I have my own idea on how I'd like matchmaking to go, though.

1) I'd like an option for Killers to be able to disallow being matched against SWF's. This can default be ENABLED so that most Killers (whom don't bother to go into options or read patch notes) still get matched against SWF's, severely minimizing the lost time in finding a match for these SWF's. HOWEVER, those who don't wish to be miserable, they can DISABLE the option to encounter SWF's.

[Alternative: Let Killer see who's SWF'd together. They can leave lobbies, but then the Survivors just wait for it to fill up again.]

2) RANKINGS should be separated, for both Killer and Survivor. One ranking for solo queue games, another ranking for SWF games. Maybe even make these separate queues. Killers who WANT to face SWF's can enter that queue. And, worst case scenario, if we find that SWF queues are totally dead because zero Killers actively choose to engage in such games, THEN HEY, MAYBE STOP & THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND, AND MAYBE CONSIDER REBALANCING THE GAME LOL.

Just some thoughts.

[Shady]

Originally posted by KSI KAX:

The fact that Op actually said "Survivors have never been stronger" means that they are full of ♥♥♥♥ are only here to start a war.

Anyone who has played with literal infinite's 5 years ago will scoff at this nonsense. Anyone else remember when Killers couldn't kick gens? it was an added feature. Survivors could 99% EVERY GEN, and Killers couldn't do ♥♥♥♥. Insta blind flashlights??? Insta pop BNP???

The literal double window killer shack infinite??????

The game has never been more balanced.

Killers can actually play and win under their own power.

You're right about the true infinites, however current game has NEAR-infinites still. And, really, those old school infinites just mean that's a dead zone for Killer. While that's still super crazy OP, it doesn't totally break the game because there won't be a gen there. Get back to gens.

Killers used to actually be threatening. Survivors used to hide from them, not sit in the middle of the road spamming a flashlight to get their attention. Chase mechanic is more Survivor sided now than it ever has been, and THAT INCLUDES back when true infinites were a thing.

[Shady]

Originally posted by Brotha Bill:

Just went against a sweaty 4 man with 4 ds 3 bt,4 dh and 4 deliverance, ate through the bt's and ds's and one of them even had a red key. Got the 4k after going through all there second chances. Think i cared about there feelings? Nope. It's only as powerful if you make it out to be. Slug the weaklings and its gg. Long story short, If you allow bullying to happen to you it's going to happen to you. Dont care if your in discord, Im slapping them cheeks.

It's so hard to stay positive. I find I enter every new game with a heavy sigh, and the same sentence being said: "I hate this map."

What Killer do/did you play?

I do well on Pig, funnily enough... She's my best Killer. I also do well on a silly Bubba build aimed at full aggro, no gen pressure whatsoever.

But I've been trying Ghost Face, and he legit feels like the worst Killer in the game to me. His stalking is slow, being revealed is easy as pie, and his chase mechanic is pure vanilla, which is extremely bad in this game.

I'm just pulling my hair out.

When I win, I simply see the clear & bizarre mistakes my enemies make, so I can't really feel like I earned the win, or should think about it in any way at all. So I'm really only left thinking about the losses that felt helpless.

^ And maybe that's largely just how I feel about DBD in general. It's NOT a complicated game. The fact that people have this belief that you need thousands of hours to be good really baffles me. Sure, I can watch Otz and say, "Yeah, he is clearly really good, and has amazing fundies and great habits hardwired into him. That comes with time." But you don't, or rather, SHOULDN'T need to be on that level to beat AVERAGE Survivors.

But yeah. Because of how easy the game is, on either side, I'm left feeling like... If I win, I can't be happy about it, because I only did what made sense. The enemies made themselves lose. But if I lose, it's infuriating, because I still only did what I should have done, but Survivors hold all the cards, and they didn't misplay as much as the last team did.

I dunno mannnnnnnnnnnnnn...

[KAX]

Originally posted by TGB:

Originally posted by KSI KAX:

The fact that Op actually said "Survivors have never been stronger" means that they are full of ♥♥♥♥ are only here to start a war.

Anyone who has played with literal infinite's 5 years ago will scoff at this nonsense. Anyone else remember when Killers couldn't kick gens? it was an added feature. Survivors could 99% EVERY GEN, and Killers couldn't do ♥♥♥♥. Insta blind flashlights??? Insta pop BNP???

The literal double window killer shack infinite??????

The game has never been more balanced.

Killers can actually play and win under their own power.

You're right about the true infinites, however current game has NEAR-infinites still. And, really, those old school infinites just mean that's a dead zone for Killer. While that's still super crazy OP, it doesn't totally break the game because there won't be a gen there. Get back to gens.

Killers used to actually be threatening. Survivors used to hide from them, not sit in the middle of the road spamming a flashlight to get their attention. Chase mechanic is more Survivor sided now than it ever has been, and THAT INCLUDES back when true infinites were a thing.

DBD isn't the hidenseek type of game. The emblem system literally punishes you for not being chased. The Survivors NEED to be able to be chased and win. If the Killer wins every time then it's not balanced.

What you want, cannot happen.

Get over yourself.