New Killer "point" System

[LastTourniquet]

I am starting this thread partially just to make more poeple aware of it and also to give my thoughts on it.

According to the devs they are wanting to change the "win" conditions for Killers (meaning how they earn pips/rank up). Their suggested idea is as follows:
You gain "points" through various actions that are seperate from bloodpoints.
1 Point for hooking a Survivor
1 Point for every Survivor that goes into struggle phase on a hook
2 Points for Sacrificing a Survivor
2 Points for Mori'ing a Survivor
1 Point for letting a Survivor Bleed Out on the floor
2 Points if a Survivor Disconnects during the Loading Screen
4 Points if a Survivor Disconnects once you are in game
-You can only earn a maximum of 4 points per Survivor-

The "Win" Conditions are as follows:
0-7 points = -1 pip
8 points = black pip (safety)
9-15 points = +1 pip
16 points = +2 pips

Lets break this down and figure out every senario where you will earn a Black pip (excluding Disconnects/Moris and Bleedouts for now)
-Every Survivor gets to Struggle Phase but escapes
-You fully Sacrifice 2 Survivors but never hook anyone else
-You fully Sacrifice 1 Survivor and get 2 Survivors to Struggle Phase but never hook the 4th Survivor
-You fully Sacrifice 1 Survivor and get 1 Survivor to Struggle Phase and hook the other 2 Survivors once each
-You Struggle Phase every single Survivor
If I am missing any please let me know, its possible I am bad at math


I am going to point some things out and this will all assume you are NOT camping. Because camping is un-fun and should be shunned into oblivion.
This means that even if you fully sacrifice 2 Survivors (thats at most 6 hooks) you can still potentially not pip.
This means that even if you hook every single Survivor 2 times (thats at most 8 total hooks) you can still potentially not pip.
Both of these senarios happen ALL the time in high rank games against Killers who don't camp. If you are playing with/against a competent group of Survivors you can almost always keep at least 2 people alive and almost always keep at least 1 person completely untouched. At least this has been my experience as someone with over 500 Hours of time in the game who can consistantly get to the higher ranks every season (Not bragging just letting you know that I have experience and my words hold at least a little bit of weight).

I would say out of experience with both Survivor and Killer sides alike that Roughly 2/5ths of my games, where Everyone in the game is Rank 1, will end up in either the 3rd or 4th senario that I listed above. 1 Survivor dying and everyone else escaping with various amounts of hooking done to them. Roughly 1/5th of my games end up in the 5th senario that I listed where everyone gets hooked as many times as possible but no one dies because teamwork. And Roughly 2/5ths of my games end up with at least 2 people dead.

Again this is just my experience but that would mean that more than half of the time the Killer would not earn a pip and I think the reason is very obvious. They don't get rewarded for like 90% of the actions they do during the entire game. Chasing/Breaking Pallets/Breaking Gens/Landing abilities/Hitting Survivors/Downing Survivors. In an attempt to make the win condition less convoluted they are just making it harder for non-camping killers to rank up while (as far as we know) not changing the way they Survivors rank up at all.

If they change the stipulations as to how a Survivor ranks up to make it similarly difficult I don't think there will be much of a problem but as it stands the current proposed system is just going to promote camping even more than the game already does. Specifically I expect to see a lot of Iron Grasp + Agitation + Monserous Shrine builds to making camping go faster with basement Hooks.

Anyways I would like to hear some actual thoughts on what other people think about the new proposed Ranking system for Killers and whether or not they think it will be healthy for the game.







Edit: To reiterate. I don't think these changes are inherently bad. The reason I don't agree with them is because, as far as I am aware, the Devs are not changing the Survivor ranking system at all meaning Survivors will still be able to rank up even if they die because of the sheer amount of points they can get from doing other things. I personally like the current system for ranking up but I can understand the want to divide the Ranking system and the Leveling system which is what I assume this is an attempt to do.

If, for example, the Devs change it so a Survivor has to escape to earn a Safety pip complete 1.5 Generators (and escape) to pip and complete more than 3 generators (and escape) to double pip I can see that being at least a little bit more fair in terms of what has to be done by each side to rank up. Clearly there are some glaring flaws with this suggestion (mainly that the one Survivor that leads the Killer around for 4 gens physically can't pip even though they, arguably, did the majority of the work while at the same time risking the most) but the point still stands that someone needs to be changed on Both sides before any ranking change is put into place. I am all for making ranking up challenging but make it challenging for everyone not just one side.

[Evil Henchman]

I predict a lot of nurse in your future.... I don't know, let's wait and see I think it's certainly interesting.

[LastTourniquet]

Originally posted by Evil Henchman:

I predict a lot of nurse in your future.... I don't know, let's wait and see I think it's certainly interesting.

I don't count Nurses as Killers. They are forces of nature and should be removed from the game since nature kills everything eventually and thats a little OP

[Bloodartist]

There is a rather important change related to this thats not mentioned here or in Not_queens post:

The time survivor lasts on a hook before proceeding to the next phase is being increased. What was previously 45 seconds, will be 60 seconds. Ie. From hooking -> struggling phase will last 60s (previously 45) and struggling-> dead will also be 60 seconds (up from 45). The number of possible self-escape attempts will remain the same.

This changes in my opinion the equation a lot, since camping will be less viable. Personally I just had a face-meet-desk moment when I heard about it, but I guess I should just wait and see how it goes... The problem I have is that these changes are then entirely in survivors favor. Killers need to sacrifice more survivors and its getting harder. Its obviously harder since survivors will have more opportunities to save their teamates from hooks. Thats just... one way road. I think there should be some balancing factors favoring the killer in exchange for this.

ps. This was mentioned on the last stream during the panel section.

[LastTourniquet]

Originally posted by Bloodartist:

There is a rather important change related to this thats not mentioned here or in Not_queens post:
The time survivor lasts on a hook before proceeding to the next phase (0-> struggling -> dead) is being increased. What was previously 45 seconds, will be 60 seconds. Ie. From hooking -> struggling phase will last 60s (previously 45) and struggling-> dead will also be 60 seconds (up from 45).
This changes in my opinion the equation a lot, since camping will be less viable. Personally I just had a face-meet-desk moment when I heard about it

Can you link me to where this is posted? I have not seen that at all.

Originally posted by Bloodartist:

The problem I have is that these changes are then entirely in survivors favor. Killers need to sacrifice more survivors and its getting harder. Thats just... one way road. I think there should be some balancing factors favoring the killer in exchange for this.

I agree completely. Unfortunately the only way that comes to mind to keep these changes and still buff the killer is simply to make it easier to catch Survivors, either by removing MORE safe pallets, removing MORE windows or changing the movement speed/lunge range of the Killer, none of which seems like a healthy game decision to me.

[79%]

This sounds awesome, at least in theory, since killers will now actually care about the main goal of the game. Hopefully it works out as intended.

[Bloodartist]

Originally posted by LastTourniquet:

Can you link me to where this is posted? I have not seen that at all.

Didn't I just write that it was not mentioned in the posts? It was mentioned in the last dev stream. This change will be part of the "victory cube" along with the goals and BNP/ mori changes etc.

The archived stream is available here https://www.twitch.tv/videos/155313189##
If Im bored enough I might go looking for the right timestamp... but iirc it was in the latter part of the stream (panel)

[LastTourniquet]

Originally posted by Bloodartist:

Originally posted by LastTourniquet:

Can you link me to where this is posted? I have not seen that at all.

Didn't I just write that it was not mentioned in the posts? It was mentioned in the last dev stream.

The archived stream is available here https://www.twitch.tv/videos/155313189##
If Im bored enough I might go looking for the right timestamp... but iirc it was in the latter part of the stream (panel)

Sorry. You edited your post saying it was on the stream while I was typing that. I knew it wasnt in Not_Queens post but I didn't know if it was in another post. Thanks though.

[Vanitas]

What is the points system for survivors?

[LastTourniquet]

Originally posted by DeadlyVanitas:

What is the points system for survivors?

As far as I am aware they aren't changing it. But I could be wrong.

[Legendary]

As long as palleten loop and gen rush is not fixed is nothing to change, it can not be the good player in the high rank, the killer as long as the 3-4 generators have been finished.

Many killer camp only for these reasons because there is no time to hunt other survivors. From Swf with voice cheat I do not want to start.

With the new system, the killer will still camp longer. 2 will die 2 will escape.
It will simply be a boring game as before, the survivors will be quite simple generators and the killer will be camping. At the end gg.
There will be more nurses playing and less killer games, I as Mainkiller from now on, only survival games. As long as the High rank is not balanced.

[Bloodartist]

Originally posted by LastTourniquet:

As far as I am aware they aren't changing it. But I could be wrong.

They did mention changing some blood point rewards to certain actions, all changes that benefit survivors iirc. (such as doing great skillchecks when hex:ruin is active)

As to the pips, I don't think there are any changes in the next patch at least. There will likely be in the future.

[Jill sandwich]

I dont undertand.. you will recieve a specific amount of BP for reaching those points or its just only for pips?

[LastTourniquet]

Originally posted by Irisora:

I dont undertand.. you will recieve a specific amount of BP for reaching those points or its just only for pips?

From what I understand its just for ranking up.

[ASpazNamedSteve :]]

Originally posted by Irisora:

I dont undertand.. you will recieve a specific amount of BP for reaching those points or its just only for pips?

Only for pips I'm pretty certain. The bloodpoints are the same and just for progression.

[Jill sandwich]

Originally posted by LastTourniquet:

Originally posted by Irisora:

I dont undertand.. you will recieve a specific amount of BP for reaching those points or its just only for pips?

From what I understand its just for ranking up.

But most of the killers cares about BP. If you could still make a lot of BP being in rank 20 ill be happy with no shame lol. To really change the interest of the killers it need to be attached to BP.