So the incoming Freddy change is going to be Buff or Rework?

[DiamondSTFU]

people keeps talking around how its going to be a buff. And some people saying Freddys gonna be completely changed/reworked .I really wish i could get confirmation that will they be just buffing his current state or full reworking him.

[Donut Steel]

Escrito originalmente por Jesusaurus Hex:

Escrito originalmente por Arec Balrin:

Freddy is the only killer who's special feature is by default a clear-cut drawback and his active ability is the partial-removal of said drawback, which when used makes him *almost as good as a basic killer with no special ability*.

Given his canon power-set, there were so many missed opportunities both mechanically and artistically that could have been utilised.

He is the only killer who needs a full-blown rework of his mechanical design.

Freddy's power grants him free deer stalker-ish ability, wall hacks, and makes finding immersed survivors much easier than any other killer.

People always look at the one negative of his power without looking at the positives.

His 'abilities' in that regard are not net-gains for any killer with a basic grasp of how the game works and this is why they add nothing except to bring him up from a base-line far below a killer with no abilities at al. I've just made a ridiculously ambitious claim of certainty there, so now I'll try to support it.

Killers can be objectively compared and ranked on how good they are; how much more likely you are to succeed if you play one over another. This is different from personal ranking preferences which often get posted listing what 'tier' a killer is; it would take far too long for anyone to describe their method for determining this with certainty. All discussions about which killer is better or worse than others rely on approximate conclusions and quite often a subjective judgement: people favour killers they enjoy and killers which they think they are successful with, which might be accurate or not.

There might still be objective reasons why they might enjoy a particular killer and have more success with them than others. Someone who has mastered survivor wandering habits will have success with Trapper. If they have mastered chasing, then Myers is a good choice. If they have an aptitude for skill-shots then Billy is the man. If however they do not have all three of these, Nurse is a very bad choice despite being considered 'overpowered' by a great many people.

If that seems like acceptable reasoning: that some players might be better with easier killers than with more demanding ones requiring more investment, then it presents a possible objective measure to be used. The result though depends on how you calibrate it.

If you were to say pick 'any random person' from among players, or even just killer-mains specifically, you could randomly assign them a killer to play for X number of matches. Repeat the process a number of times with different randomised players and see which killers they seem to win more with. It's important to randomise this because the devs chronically-bad use of statistics are not randomised; meaning they only represent players who are playing and making choices which make the results meaningless.

Another way is to look at 'the skill-ceiling'; the subjective theorised limit of what any killer can possibly do if played perfectly. A skill-ceiling can be moved either by the discovery of a quirk in the way features in the game interact(like when killers realised they could physically block a hook rescue interaction) or new features being introduced, but the more time that passes the less chance there is that a skill-ceiling is 'false' and is objectively real.

Combine these together and we're able to say what each killer being played optimally should look like and therefore which ones are better than others and by how much. Theory-crafting the skill-ceiling gives a projection, whilst the randomised trial would prove or disprove the theory-craft. The theory-craft though has had a good record so far though when it comes to finding optimal ways to play.

A base-line killer would be like a Trapper with no traps; no special but no drawbacks. Any killer that performs worse than this can be said to be objectively bad. Freddy IS such a killer because of his blindness and inability to interact with survivors UNTIL he uses his active ability on them. But someone could also argue the same applies to Myers: he starts with low move-speed until he manage to use his active ability on someone. Neither Freddy or Myers has any built-in help to find that initial survivor. The important difference though is that Myers can go one step beyond simply being able to upgrade to the base-line; he has the opportunity to gain the benefits of EW3. After Freddy has succeeded in using his active ability, the only benefits come after *losing* the resulting chase.

So Freddy is a killer who's main benefit is for people who are so poor at being a killer that it mitigates against not having certain skills as a player, like tracking, bluffing and basic movement. Once you have those skills, playing Freddy is a handicap.

[Nickeh]

Escrito originalmente por Arec Balrin:

Escrito originalmente por Jesusaurus Hex:

Freddy's power grants him free deer stalker-ish ability, wall hacks, and makes finding immersed survivors much easier than any other killer.

People always look at the one negative of his power without looking at the positives.

His 'abilities' in that regard are not net-gains for any killer with a basic grasp of how the game works and this is why they add nothing except to bring him up from a base-line far below a killer with no abilities at al. I've just made a ridiculously ambitious claim of certainty there, so now I'll try to support it.

Killers can be objectively compared and ranked on how good they are; how much more likely you are to succeed if you play one over another. This is different from personal ranking preferences which often get posted listing what 'tier' a killer is; it would take far too long for anyone to describe their method for determining this with certainty. All discussions about which killer is better or worse than others rely on approximate conclusions and quite often a subjective judgement: people favour killers they enjoy and killers which they think they are successful with, which might be accurate or not.

There might still be objective reasons why they might enjoy a particular killer and have more success with them than others. Someone who has mastered survivor wandering habits will have success with Trapper. If they have mastered chasing, then Myers is a good choice. If they have an aptitude for skill-shots then Billy is the man. If however they do not have all three of these, Nurse is a very bad choice despite being considered 'overpowered' by a great many people.

If that seems like acceptable reasoning: that some players might be better with easier killers than with more demanding ones requiring more investment, then it presents a possible objective measure to be used. The result though depends on how you calibrate it.

If you were to say pick 'any random person' from among players, or even just killer-mains specifically, you could randomly assign them a killer to play for X number of matches. Repeat the process a number of times with different randomised players and see which killers they seem to win more with. It's important to randomise this because the devs chronically-bad use of statistics are not randomised; meaning they only represent players who are playing and making choices which make the results meaningless.

Another way is to look at 'the skill-ceiling'; the subjective theorised limit of what any killer can possibly do if played perfectly. A skill-ceiling can be moved either by the discovery of a quirk in the way features in the game interact(like when killers realised they could physically block a hook rescue interaction) or new features being introduced, but the more time that passes the less chance there is that a skill-ceiling is 'false' and is objectively real.

Combine these together and we're able to say what each killer being played optimally should look like and therefore which ones are better than others and by how much. Theory-crafting the skill-ceiling gives a projection, whilst the randomised trial would prove or disprove the theory-craft. The theory-craft though has had a good record so far though when it comes to finding optimal ways to play.

A base-line killer would be like a Trapper with no traps; no special but no drawbacks. Any killer that performs worse than this can be said to be objectively bad. Freddy IS such a killer because of his blindness and inability to interact with survivors UNTIL he uses his active ability on them. But someone could also argue the same applies to Myers: he starts with low move-speed until he manage to use his active ability on someone. Neither Freddy or Myers has any built-in help to find that initial survivor. The important difference though is that Myers can go one step beyond simply being able to upgrade to the base-line; he has the opportunity to gain the benefits of EW3. After Freddy has succeeded in using his active ability, the only benefits come after *losing* the resulting chase.

So Freddy is a killer who's main benefit is for people who are so poor at being a killer that it mitigates against not having certain skills as a player, like tracking, bluffing and basic movement. Once you have those skills, playing Freddy is a handicap.

You lost me at "basic grasp of how the game works". Not to be rude, but if you're going to act that way while simultaneously not understanding the basic concept that different killers have different play-styles then there's nothing I really want to hear from you. I figured I'd at least give you the respect of telling you I don't care.

[Tinder]

Escrito originalmente por Anomalous:

They haven't said anything. Could be a full rework or could be something small like preventing survs from repairing/healing during transition. Time will tell

They said it is gonna be a complete rework since his power is just bad and unfixable.

[Depsurrel]

Escrito originalmente por kristianthebg:

Escrito originalmente por Anomalous:

They haven't said anything. Could be a full rework or could be something small like preventing survs from repairing/healing during transition. Time will tell

They said it is gonna be a complete rework since his power is just bad and unfixable.

Yup so the game's completely dead to me because Freddy's the only killer I even enjoyed playing.

[Donut Steel]

Escrito originalmente por Jesusaurus Hex:

You lost me at "basic grasp of how the game works". Not to be rude, but if you're going to act that way while simultaneously not understanding the basic concept that different killers have different play-styles then there's nothing I really want to hear from you. I figured I'd at least give you the respect of telling you I don't care.

Act like what? I'm not being rude or facetious, nor speaking about any person here disparagingly when I say "basic grasp of how the game works". The context I am giving with it is talking about general player ability, which has to be accounted for when talking about how good each of the killer characters is.

WTF is your reply here even about?

Edit: And I explicitly talk about play-styles in my post. Did you just go out of your way to not understand anything?

[Depsurrel]

Escrito originalmente por Arec Balrin:

Escrito originalmente por Jesusaurus Hex:

You lost me at "basic grasp of how the game works". Not to be rude, but if you're going to act that way while simultaneously not understanding the basic concept that different killers have different play-styles then there's nothing I really want to hear from you. I figured I'd at least give you the respect of telling you I don't care.

Act like what? I'm not being rude or facetious, nor speaking about any person here disparagingly when I say "basic grasp of how the game works". The context I am giving with it is talking about general player ability, which has to be accounted for when talking about how good each of the killer characters is.

WTF is your reply here even about?

Edit: And I explicitly talk about play-styles in my post. Did you just go out of your way to not understand anything?

The problem of rating killers based on peak performance is that it's only fair to do the same for survivors. In that case, there are two tiers: Nurse and everyone else. Granted that's basically the game right now.

Freddy's power, when used for stalling purposes, can be fairly effective. If not the best he's leagues better than jokes like Trapper, Clown, and Leatherface.

[Your memes end here]

freddy will never get changed

[dont_ask_me_again]

Escrito originalmente por Please end me:

Escrito originalmente por Arec Balrin:

Act like what? I'm not being rude or facetious, nor speaking about any person here disparagingly when I say "basic grasp of how the game works". The context I am giving with it is talking about general player ability, which has to be accounted for when talking about how good each of the killer characters is.

WTF is your reply here even about?

Edit: And I explicitly talk about play-styles in my post. Did you just go out of your way to not understand anything?

The problem of rating killers based on peak performance is that it's only fair to do the same for survivors. In that case, there are two tiers: Nurse and everyone else. Granted that's basically the game right now.

Freddy's power, when used for stalling purposes, can be fairly effective. If not the best he's leagues better than jokes like Trapper, Clown, and Leatherface.

There’s nurse and generators on the same tier... not survivors.

[Donut Steel]

Escrito originalmente por Please end me:

Escrito originalmente por Arec Balrin:

Act like what? I'm not being rude or facetious, nor speaking about any person here disparagingly when I say "basic grasp of how the game works". The context I am giving with it is talking about general player ability, which has to be accounted for when talking about how good each of the killer characters is.

WTF is your reply here even about?

Edit: And I explicitly talk about play-styles in my post. Did you just go out of your way to not understand anything?

The problem of rating killers based on peak performance is that it's only fair to do the same for survivors. In that case, there are two tiers: Nurse and everyone else. Granted that's basically the game right now.

Freddy's power, when used for stalling purposes, can be fairly effective. If not the best he's leagues better than jokes like Trapper, Clown, and Leatherface.

That can be done and often is when killer-mains try to explain how the skill-ceiling for killers is really low and the skill-ceiling for survivors still isn't known yet; it's higher than any survivor can be bothered trying to reach.

Freddy's one positive benefit to his active ability is the delay you mentioned: gen progress is slowed unless the survivor gets rid of it. How much marginal utility does it grant though for a very good player?

I've argued that it largely just makes up for skills that weaker players lack; not being good at tracking and maintain a chase, so it enables them to find the survivor again after losing them. A good player can of course choose this, casting Dream Demon on someone but then deliberately not chasing them(and without being injured they can't Self-Care their way out of it). It makes sense if you have survivors together.

But how much use is it if the killer knows what they're doing and the survivors know what they're doing? As a survivor I would know to stay away from the other survivors; if they're running and are asleep, good idea to assume Freddy is chasing them. I'd know to wake up anyone who goes for a gen and if I am being chased, to keep avoiding others so Freddy can't sleep them too. Apart from that, it's the usual survivor-meta of stall the killer until the gens are done. As a Freddy, once it's clear the survivors are competent then I can't depend on the stall because Freddy has no in-chase utility. The killers you listed as inferior do.

Freddy is one of the killers where giving up on a stubborn chase is something you're more likely to have to do in order to be doing the stalling rather than getting stalled.

[Soren]

After playing him a lot at rank 1, I hope they WON'T rework him. His power is fairly strong and what he lacks is mostly range to sleep survivors (snipe during chase) and no progression during dream transition.

[Crowbaria]

Escrito originalmente por Not Kate Denson:

After playing him a lot at rank 1, I hope they WON'T rework him. His power is fairly strong and what he lacks is mostly range to sleep survivors (snipe during chase) and no progression during dream transition.

+1

[Croquedead]

Escrito originalmente por Soren:

After playing him a lot at rank 1, I hope they WON'T rework him. His power is fairly strong and what he lacks is mostly range to sleep survivors (snipe during chase) and no progression during dream transition.

+1

[DiamondSTFU]

Escrito originalmente por Soren:

After playing him a lot at rank 1, I hope they WON'T rework him. His power is fairly strong and what he lacks is mostly range to sleep survivors (snipe during chase) and no progression during dream transition.

I agree with this. Actually my fav combo is the the green and yellow addons that increases the range. You can just walk around holding mouse 2 looking around and get survivors randomly without even knowing where they were lol.

[Donut Steel]

Escrito originalmente por Soren:

After playing him a lot at rank 1, I hope they WON'T rework him. His power is fairly strong and what he lacks is mostly range to sleep survivors (snipe during chase) and no progression during dream transition.

I can't add or take away from this; it's your experience. You don't say WHY his power is fairly strong.

[Crowbaria]

Escrito originalmente por Arec Balrin:

Escrito originalmente por Soren:

After playing him a lot at rank 1, I hope they WON'T rework him. His power is fairly strong and what he lacks is mostly range to sleep survivors (snipe during chase) and no progression during dream transition.

I can't add or take away from this; it's your experience. You don't say WHY his power is fairly strong.

This might help
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1628612661