Fix for Hex perks.

[Mostly Ghostly]

The biggest issue with hex perks is that they can get cleansed too quickly.
Simply giving them better spawn locations is easier said than done.

Survivors will learn the new spawn location/algorithms.
Also, survivors will still sometimes stumble upon them at the start of a match.
Also also, Small Game and Maps makes finding totems trivial (if anyone ever actually used them).

So here's a 5 point idea to help.

1: Increase the number of dull totems on the map to twelve.

2: The level of a hex perk determines how many dull totems that perk will light up.
level 1 = 1 lit totem, level 2 = 2 lit totem, and level 3 = 3 lit totems.

3: Hex perks remain active until all of their corresponding totems are cleansed.

4: Killers can see which totem is associated with which perk.

5: Survivors receive Lightbringer points for cleansing dull totems too.
Because you're making sure NEOD can't activate.

As a bonus, this helps totems be that secondary objective that's survivors have been needing.

[Shiro♌]

1. That'd become a bit too unfair - And boring, to deal with Hex: No One Escapes Death every match. But, the coordinated SWF would laugh about that, as they'll get more Bloodpoints.

2. How will Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt work then? Will we get the notification after touching each of those Hex totems, or just if they choose the first one?
It may be a bit unfair, as you'll know all their locations, as the Killer.

3. That'd buff Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt a lot, I can tell.. Not to mention, when you use two Hex Perks.

4. That may block their field of view.. And that would cause it to be overpowered.. Just like I was thinking before.

5. Why? Totems are totems, nothing will change. So, no.

I completely hate your idea, but that could be just me, not every player.

[Ohen]

i think thes ideas are good just need a little more tinkering

[BreadandYeast]

These are horrible, Hex perks and totem system in general are horrible, a system such as hex totems and dull totems where its extremely difficult to balance means that it is in general, a horrible system. I fear that the only way to fix hex perks and totems is a complete redo because oh boy these things are just not fun for both sides

[Amideus]

Why not remove the dull vs active hex totem system, and instead make all totems look the same. Reduce the number of total totems, and revamp a few of the hex totems to compensate. Then you can make some perks that help for identifying hex vs dull.

It seems weird to me that you just let survivors see this obvious glowing totem and they don't have to try and go through the other totems. There should be more choice in cleansing totems instead of just keeping an eye out for glowing totems.

[BreadandYeast]

Originally posted by Church:

Why not remove the dull vs active hex totem system, and instead make all totems look the same. Reduce the number of total totems, and revamp a few of the hex totems to compensate. Then you can make some perks that help for identifying hex vs dull.

It seems weird to me that you just let survivors see this obvious glowing totem and they don't have to try and go through the other totems. There should be more choice in cleansing totems instead of just keeping an eye out for glowing totems.

Once again, this won't work, the totem system just has to be removed and replaced with something more flexible.

[veiL`HK]

Personally...

Id rather;

A. Either the power of said hex perk spread across all 5 totems (cleansing 1 means you lower its effectiveness).

or

B. Have said Hex Totems only cleansable after a certain amount of time has passed, once said time has passed, a random totem will light up allowing survivors to cleanse said hex perk.


Both would fix 2 major problems;

1. No more "R.N.G."

2. More fair for killers that have insane bad luck all the time.

[BreadandYeast]

I still stand by the idea that totems and hex perks in general is a horrible system

Originally posted by Dochtmann:

Personally...

Id rather;

A. Either the power of said hex perk spread across all 5 totems (cleansing 1 means you lower its effectiveness).

or

B. Have said Hex Totems only cleansable after a certain amount of time has passed, once said time has passed, a random totem will light up allowing survivors to cleanse said hex perk.


Both would fix 2 major problems;

1. No more "R.N.G."

2. More fair for killers that have insane bad luck all the time.

A. Then survivors would just go around looking for totems which means all 5 of them will be very quickly taken down.

B. Once again, survivors would just go looking for totems rather than waste time trying to do a gen.

All of the above will also be quickly taken down by good SWF groups, with one doing gens, one taking aggro and two just going around and taking down totems

[Mostly Ghostly]

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

1. That'd become a bit too unfair - And boring, to deal with Hex: No One Escapes Death every match.

Yes, NOED would be more time consuming to deactivate, but so would literally every hex perk.
That's the point.
You would realistically have three options to deal with NOED.
1: Use Small Game / Red Twine map to hunt down all of the dull totems.
You say this would be boring, but how would it be any more boring than fixing gens?

2: Use Small Game / Red Twine map to hunt down the NEOD totems after they activate.
Less time consuming than cleansing all totems, but with EGC in effect, it's also higher risk.
Put simply, its a gamble, maybe it's worth it, maybe it's not.

3: Use stealth and avoid the killer after the gates are powered.
Wait for the killer to check a door and leave before tying to open it.
Also, you can use Wake Up so other survivors will know when you're on a gate so they can open the other one (the killer can't be in two places at the same time).

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

2. How will Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt work then? Will we get the notification after touching each of those Hex totems, or just if they choose the first one?

The mechanics of TotH would work the same as they do now.

Anytime a survivor starts cleansing a hex totem, the killer will receive a noise notification at that location.
The only change is the cleansing speed penalty would be lowered from 6% to 3% (to account for the extra totems), and the BP bonus would need adjusted (again, to account for the extra totems)

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

It may be a bit unfair, as you'll know all their locations, as the Killer.

This would only come into play if survivors were cleansing multiple totems at the same time, but once again, the killer can't be in two place at the same time.

This would really only help give killers general map awareness, and Whispers, Spies, Surveillance, and even Discordance do better jobs at that anyway.

Also survivors can trick the killer by tapping a totem and then sneaking away (if the killer is too obsessed with defending his totems).

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

3. That'd buff Hex: Thrill Of The Hunt a lot, I can tell.. Not to mention, when you use two Hex Perks.

TofH would not be "buffed" more than any other hex perk.
which is one of the two goals of the change.

1: Make hex perks more viable by making them last longer instead of just increasing their effects.

2: Give survivors a meaningful and somewhat time consuming secondary objective so games last longer.

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

4. That may block their field of view.. And that would cause it to be overpowered.. Just like I was thinking before.

I honestly have no idea what you mean by "block their field of view", please clarify.

In the meantime, I'll take this chance to clarify what I mean about point 4.

In the killer's perk display, the border of a hex perks would have a colored outlined.
The aura of each hex totem would be the same color as its corresponding perk outline.

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

5. Why? Totems are totems, nothing will change. So, no.

NOED turns dull totems into hex totems, that is the thing that can change.

But I'm sure you already know that, so I think I may be misunderstanding what your getting at, because your comment makes no sense to me.
Again, please clarify.

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

I completely hate your idea, but that could be just me, not every player.

And you might be right, this may be a bad idea.

The goal is to find what's wrong with the idea and improve it, or discard it for a better idea.
I posted this so people could criticize it.
So thank you for giving your opinion.

[Shaman]

hex perks are fine

[Shiro♌]

Originally posted by Mostly Ghostly:

p

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

4. That may block their field of view.. And that would cause it to be overpowered.. Just like I was thinking before.

I honestly have no idea what you mean by "block their field of view", please clarify.

In the meantime, I'll take this chance to clarify what I mean about point 4.

In the killer's perk display, the border of a hex perks would have a colored outlined.
The aura of each hex totem would be the same color as its corresponding perk outline.

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

5. Why? Totems are totems, nothing will change. So, no.

NOED turns dull totems into hex totems, that is the thing that can change.

But I'm sure you already know that, so I think I may be misunderstanding what your getting at, because your comment makes no sense to me.
Again, please clarify.

I mean, the auras of the totems could cause the Killer a bit of trouble, just like the Generators do, while Barbecue & Chilli is showing the auras of some of Survivors.

It could also add an opportunity to bully ot troll the Killer - You know, you're in a loop, then you injure your prey, and you're forced to listen to his / her sounds, as Rin Yamaoka.

Plus, to have constant explosions for the whole match... That could easily damage your ears, if the SWF groups use it to cause the Killer to not hear crying in pain and the looper's footsteps.


Hex: No One Escapes Death always lits only one totem. The rest of them will stay the Dull totems, just like before.

[Mostly Ghostly]

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

I mean, the auras of the totems could cause the Killer a bit of trouble, just like the Generators do, while Barbecue & Chilli is showing the auras of some of Survivors.

Generators' auras impede BBQ because they are large enough to hide behind and have a similar color to survivor auras.

Neither or these would be issues with totems.

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

It could also add an opportunity to bully ot troll the Killer - You know, you're in a loop, then you injure your prey, and you're forced to listen to his / her sounds, as Rin Yamaoka.

Plus, to have constant explosions for the whole match... That could easily damage your ears, if the SWF groups use it to cause the Killer to not hear crying in pain and the looper's footsteps.

Survivors can already do this by fast vaulting or locker jumping.
Also, survivors can use TofH to spam noise notifications right now.
The change really wouldn't affect this at all.

Originally posted by Neprašheart:

Hex: No One Escapes Death always lits only one totem. The rest of them will stay the Dull totems, just like before.

1: just to be clear.
Level 3 NOED would light up 3 dull totems (assuming there are 3 dull totems available).

2: It doesn't matter how many extra dull totems there are. What matter is that you can't pre-cleanse NOED without cleansing all dull totems

So breaking all dull totems is part of cleansing NOED, therefor it should still award Lightbringer points.

Also, by making dull totems give emblem points, it means that survivors aren't shooting themselves in the foot by not working on gens.

That's one of the reasons survivors gen rush so much.

They have to get Lightbringer points before all the gens are done, so everyone is rushing to complete gens in time, which means there's even less time, which means they rush more, which means...

It's a positive feedback loop, and it's awful.

[two]

Why not just remove totems and bring back oldschool NOED so they have something to complain about

[aleX]

Originally posted by Mostly Ghostly:

The biggest issue with hex perks is that they can get cleansed too quickly.
Simply giving them better spawn locations is easier said than done.

Survivors will learn the new spawn location/algorithms.
Also, survivors will still sometimes stumble upon them at the start of a match.
Also also, Small Game and Maps makes finding totems trivial (if anyone ever actually used them).

So here's a 5 point idea to help.

1: Increase the number of dull totems on the map to twelve.

2: The level of a hex perk determines how many dull totems that perk will light up.
level 1 = 1 lit totem, level 2 = 2 lit totem, and level 3 = 3 lit totems.

3: Hex perks remain active until all of their corresponding totems are cleansed.

4: Killers can see which totem is associated with which perk.

5: Survivors receive Lightbringer points for cleansing dull totems too.
Because you're making sure NEOD can't activate.

As a bonus, this helps totems be that secondary objective that's survivors have been needing.

TRY HARD killer, please stop playing this game.

[Mostly Ghostly]

Originally posted by Dochtmann:

Personally...

Id rather;

A. Either the power of said hex perk spread across all 5 totems (cleansing 1 means you lower its effectiveness).

How would this work with multiple hex perks?
Also, how does it work with Haunted Ground or NOED?

Originally posted by Dochtmann:

or

B. Have said Hex Totems only cleansable after a certain amount of time has passed, once said time has passed, a random totem will light up allowing survivors to cleanse said hex perk.

1: This does little for Devour Hope since it will likely still be cleansable long before you've hooked 3 (let alone 5) survivors (depending on how much time has to pass).

2: it's pretty much a straight nerf to Haunted Ground since the sooner it pops the better (generally speaking).

I think the biggest issue though is that you're missing out on a great opportunity.

By increasing the number of totems and giving survivors more incentive to go after them, you'll slow down the game, which is a problem that's been plaguing DbD for a long time.

I'm just saying, why hit one bird with one stone when you could easily hit two or three?