Let's face it, memento moris are useless.

[HerrKomm]

It's pretty much been the norm that when the killer uses an ebony mori it's pretty much a wasted offering, most times I faced an ebony mori, the killer wasn't actually able to kill anyone with it due to how fast the gens fly by and how much time each individual survivor can waste. Then a few times a killer was able to kill 2 with an ebony mori (and they don't get the full 4 points for using it), and out of all the times a killer used an ebony mori I've only seen a killer kill all 4 with it once (which had more to do with how much my team sucked, as opposed to how good the offering is).

Plenty of times as the killer you can kill them on the second hook, since they ended up in the struggle state before the unhook, in which case what benefits does a mori offer? Why, nothing of course.

Previously a mori was a way of countering decisive strike and making dying light "somewhat" useful, now it does neither.

So what actually is the point of using a mori now when all expectations and all practical experience points to the fact that it's kind of pointless to use them?

This mori nerf (i.e. completely nerfed into the ground as the devs always do with killer things) was supposed to be compensated with the BNP nerf (which as usual was a mere baby nerf, since that's how the devs treat survivors), when in reality there is no reason to use a mori as a killer anymore and there are still plenty of reasons to use a BNP; either for easy wins, as they still make the gens go by super fast or because you want to make a few quick points.

Not only are BNP's a LOT stronger than moris (which they always were) they further widened the gap between how strong BNP's are in comparison to moris, while at the same time BNP's are a LOT more common than moris in ones bloodwebs.

One cannot help but to feel cheated as usual, so what do you think about this? Are there any killers at all who think that moris are still good? And that the mori nerf in comparison to the BNP nerf was "fair"?

[The PeePeePooPoo Man]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

Escrito originalmente por dylan the jewish guy:

Over a year.

This just keeps getting funnier and funnier. Any other previous gross imbalances that are worth a chuckle?

Ever seen pallet looping?

[HerrKomm]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

Your comments regarding the Ebony mori is tied to the horrible victory cube standards for pipping, but is not necessarily reflective of the balance of that Mori. If Ebony Moris allowed a Killer to kill every survivor on their first downs, then that is OP as hell.

So the only alternative you're allowing is for ebony moris to be completely worthless? Since I've only seen one killer out of all killers who used an ebony mori kill all 4. Meanwhile the others at best only killed 2, and either depipped or black pipped, something they could have achieved without the ebony mori, and at worst (which were most of them) didn't kill anyone at all.

Allowing the ivory mori to kill anyone you down while for the ebony mori you have to hook people makes ivory moris a LOT stronger than ebonies when it's supposed to be the opposite, and again will keep ebony mories completely worthless.

[Shadow-Dragon]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

Escrito originalmente por Shadow_Dragon_DCG.tv:

That goes back to my statements. AN Ivory mori is balanced when a hook is required. As for the Ebony Mori, its useless. you rarely ever get to use all 4 on the survivors. If you want to double pip you have to hook each one 2 times. The BNP gives survivor's with 3k points if they only hit the good part of the skill check. A mori gives a killer 2 points towards their pip and with only 1 hook they get 3 points and point wise they get 1k. How is that fair?

I disagree. Ivory and ESPECIALLY Cypress moris are trash if you have to hook the person once. Considering that each allows you to kill only 1 survivor, it makes no sense to add another condition to use them.

Your comments regarding the Ebony mori is tied to the horrible victory cube standards for pipping, but is not necessarily reflective of the balance of that Mori. If Ebony Moris allowed a Killer to kill every survivor on their first downs, then that is OP as hell.

Ebonies are RARE as hell. Cypress does not require a hook, its stipulation is that its the last survivor alive. Ebonie is tied down to hooking a survivor. So if the last survivor hid the entire game, then you can't mori him.

If we take out the victory cube conditions. Then point wise comparing the two the BNP wins. Plus on every blood web i h ave as a survivor i get 1-2 BNP's as for mori's? I see one every ten levels and more often than not its a Ivory I don't remember the last time i saw more than 1 on a blood web.

Mori's were always supposed to be game changers. They were meant to strike fear into survivors that they shouldn't play bold this match and be stealthy! Now they are a joke. There simply isn't enough time in most matches to even bother with an Ebony mori. Ivory mori IS balanced with the hook requirements. Or else you will have to deal with DYING LIGHT A lot more. It was something i used to do against SWF groups who i knew were problem children. There is no simple answer. But a ebony should be a mix of a cypress and a ivory in my eyes. Either way how it is now, mori's don't make the survivors scared. They make them laugh i used to be scared of mori's I giggle at them now.

[dylan the jewish guy]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

Guys come on, lets be reasonable.

Every Mori under Ebony should allow the Killer to kill a survivor on the first down, but the Ebony ivory should have the hook condition.

Is that a good compromise?

Wish that were reasonable, but that's not even a compromise. That's keeping ebony moris useless, and making Ivory moris more useful than them. Which doesn't make too much sense.

[Ragnoraok]

@HerrKomm
@Shadow_Dragon_DCG.tv
@dylan the jewish guy

Ivory Mori would be more balanced if you could kill a survivor on their first down, because it allows for interesting combos with perks that otherwise are way too situational to be useful. For example, Dying Light, and all other perks that require an obsession, would be much better if Ivory Mori allowed a Killer to guarantee a kill on a target survivor. This would be balanced since Moris are already fairly rare to get. Comparing moris to BNP is moot, because it is already well-known that survivors have better tools at their disposal to make their games ez mode. However, balancing moris based on how powerful BNP obfuscates the fact that moris provides the Killer with much greater control over the match in most situations.

Sorry, but I vehemently disagree. If Ebony moris did not have the 1 hook condition then they would be flat out broken. You guys are under the impression that the mori should allow Killers to get 4K without much sweat which was not the intended use of the offering. Ebonies are currently balanced, because you have the potential to kill the entire team. More realistically, you have the opportunity to kill 2-3 people without much effort.

Again, the bloodpoint distribution for mori kills are indeed underwhelming. However, that should not factor into the balance of the offering, because the amount of bloodpoints for Killer objectives is out of wack in general. For example, a Killer only gets 50 bp for letting a survivor bleep out, and breaking generators only provides 100 bp, whereas survivors get 100+ bp for securing an item though a basement chest.l

[Spray]

The only good mori is if using the myers perk dying light so you dont have to hook the obseission 3 times and deal with all the BT :D otherwise dont use them

[Lord Regal]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

@
Sorry, but I vehemently disagree. If Ebony moris did not have the 1 hook condition then they would be flat out broken. You guys are under the impression that the mori should allow Killers to get 4K without much sweat which was not the intended use of the offering. Ebonies are currently balanced, because you have the potential to kill the entire team. More realistically, you have the opportunity to kill 2-3 people without much effort.

Except it's not "without much effort". It requires almost the same amount of effort that it would to kill someone who went to struggle on their first hook before being saved, save the transport time to the hook. That's it. There is no added benefit to an ebony Mori except your travel time is replaced by Mori animation time. Otherwise the functional difference is identical. If that's the case, why bother burning an ultra rare offering you hardly ever get? It's just the same as playing vanilla with one tiny change. That's what makes it absolutely worthless right now.

[dylan the jewish guy]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

Escrito originalmente por dylan the jewish guy:

Over a year.

This just keeps getting funnier and funnier. Any other previous gross imbalances that are worth a chuckle?

Infinites lasted several months, because it was the devs' opinion that infinites took skill to pull off, and that they were mind games.

Active (set by the Trapper) bear traps could be sabotaged.

Hooks used to not respawn. Once survivors took them all down, they stayed down. Permanently. Which is why Jake used to be viewed as the scum of the earth.

A survivor used to be able to blind a killer with a flashlight during the hooking animation, forcing the survivor off the hook in some cases, making for some laughably impossible transitions between animations. Especially given that the hooking animation used to be longer.

Jungle gyms used to have 2 windows and 2 pallets. Nobody needed the pallets anyways, because the 2 windows were enough to infinite any killer with no risk of being caught. In other words, they were legitimate infinites. Solved by window blockers and the removal of an entire window in a jungle gym, after several months.

The odd bulb add-on for the flashlight originally did nothing. When the devs figured out how to make it work, it created an actual insta-blind. As in, all it took was <0.05 seconds to blind a killer with a purple flashlight with an odd bulb and high end sapphire lens. Meaning a survivor could get off over several dozen blinds easily. And Lightborn couldn't even make the flashlights take over 0.1 seconds to blind a killer, so they were still insta-blinds, through Lightborn.

The Wraith used to spawn into the match uncloaked, and would have to cloak to stealth. Since the Wraith's bell's range was universal and everyone could hear the bell, regardless of add-ons, this would essentially mean that no stealth could be had as the Wraith, even on the first survivor.

The list goes on and on, but those are a few laughable examples of imbalance.

[Existence is pain]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

@HerrKomm
@Shadow_Dragon_DCG.tv
@dylan the jewish guy

Ivory Mori would be more balanced if you could kill a survivor on their first down, because it allows for interesting combos with perks that otherwise are way too situational to be useful. For example, Dying Light, and all other perks that require an obsession, would be much better if Ivory Mori allowed a Killer to guarantee a kill on a target survivor. This would be balanced since Moris are already fairly rare to get. Comparing moris to BNP is moot, because it is already well-known that survivors have better tools at their disposal to make their games ez mode. However, balancing moris based on how powerful BNP obfuscates the fact that moris provides the Killer with much greater control over the match in most situations.

Sorry, but I vehemently disagree. If Ebony moris did not have the 1 hook condition then they would be flat out broken. You guys are under the impression that the mori should allow Killers to get 4K without much sweat which was not the intended use of the offering. Ebonies are currently balanced, because you have the potential to kill the entire team. More realistically, you have the opportunity to kill 2-3 people without much effort.

Again, the bloodpoint distribution for mori kills are indeed underwhelming. However, that should not factor into the balance of the offering, because the amount of bloodpoints for Killer objectives is out of wack in general. For example, a Killer only gets 50 bp for letting a survivor bleep out, and breaking generators only provides 100 bp, whereas survivors get 100+ bp for securing an item though a basement chest.l

it's more then bp. rank is hard for killers nowadays too. the mori more or less stipulates a loss of rank or black pip most of the time when used. At most you get 1 pip which you could have done without it.

Additionally there's the odd issue of most killers not finding moris at all in bloodwebs, while my unprestiged survivors end up with 2 bnps, or at least one every 2-3 levels at 50 (i don't want to prestige to grind again)

[Shadow-Dragon]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

@HerrKomm
@Shadow_Dragon_DCG.tv
@dylan the jewish guy

Ivory Mori would be more balanced if you could kill a survivor on their first down, because it allows for interesting combos with perks that otherwise are way too situational to be useful. For example, Dying Light, and all other perks that require an obsession, would be much better if Ivory Mori allowed a Killer to guarantee a kill on a target survivor. This would be balanced since Moris are already fairly rare to get. Comparing moris to BNP is moot, because it is already well-known that survivors have better tools at their disposal to make their games ez mode. However, balancing moris based on how powerful BNP obfuscates the fact that moris provides the Killer with much greater control over the match in most situations.

Sorry, but I vehemently disagree. If Ebony moris did not have the 1 hook condition then they would be flat out broken. You guys are under the impression that the mori should allow Killers to get 4K without much sweat which was not the intended use of the offering. Ebonies are currently balanced, because you have the potential to kill the entire team. More realistically, you have the opportunity to kill 2-3 people without much effort.

Again, the bloodpoint distribution for mori kills are indeed underwhelming. However, that should not factor into the balance of the offering, because the amount of bloodpoints for Killer objectives is out of wack in general. For example, a Killer only gets 50 bp for letting a survivor bleep out, and breaking generators only provides 100 bp, whereas survivors get 100+ bp for securing an item though a basement chest.l

You think i care about 4k's? If i want a 4k then i will "try hard". I won't use a ebony mori. That is the problem. Using an Ebony is just as much work as not using one. So whats the point in taking one. They were always meant to be OP its meant to be a serious offering. Now its a joke offering with a depip and alot less points than before where it meant 32k and a double pip.

[Ragnoraok]

Escrito originalmente por Lord Regal:

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

@
Sorry, but I vehemently disagree. If Ebony moris did not have the 1 hook condition then they would be flat out broken. You guys are under the impression that the mori should allow Killers to get 4K without much sweat which was not the intended use of the offering. Ebonies are currently balanced, because you have the potential to kill the entire team. More realistically, you have the opportunity to kill 2-3 people without much effort.

Except it's not "without much effort". It requires almost the same amount of effort that it would to kill someone who went to struggle on their first hook before being saved, save the transport time to the hook. That's it. There is no added benefit to an ebony Mori except your travel time is replaced by Mori animation time. Otherwise the functional difference is identical. If that's the case, why bother burning an ultra rare offering you hardly ever get? It's just the same as playing vanilla with one tiny change. That's what makes it absolutely worthless right now.

I disagree. Unless you are hard camping a survivor until the second hook stage, moris have greater value. I have been in countless matches where I managed to hook each survivor at least once, but was only able to get a single kill because hooking them 3 times was too much of an effort. At higher ranks survivors bodyblock for each other and alternate being hooked knowing that they have 3 chances before dying. The Ebony Mori serves as a nice surprise in this regards.

I love Ebony moris because you can put an end to all the nonsense almost immediately. I take comfort in knowing that after the first hook, I can outright kill anyone the next time I down them, as opposed to having to hook them again 2 more times.

[Ragnoraok]

Escrito originalmente por dylan the jewish guy:

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

This just keeps getting funnier and funnier. Any other previous gross imbalances that are worth a chuckle?

Infinites lasted several months, because it was the devs' opinion that infinites took skill to pull off, and that they were mind games.

Active (set by the Trapper) bear traps could be sabotaged.

Hooks used to not respawn. Once survivors took them all down, they stayed down. Permanently. Which is why Jake used to be viewed as the scum of the earth.

A survivor used to be able to blind a killer with a flashlight during the hooking animation, forcing the survivor off the hook in some cases, making for some laughably impossible transitions between animations. Especially given that the hooking animation used to be longer.

Jungle gyms used to have 2 windows and 2 pallets. Nobody needed the pallets anyways, because the 2 windows were enough to infinite any killer with no risk of being caught. In other words, they were legitimate infinites. Solved by window blockers and the removal of an entire window in a jungle gym, after several months.

The odd bulb add-on for the flashlight originally did nothing. When the devs figured out how to make it work, it created an actual insta-blind. As in, all it took was <0.05 seconds to blind a killer with a purple flashlight with an odd bulb and high end sapphire lens. Meaning a survivor could get off over several dozen blinds easily. And Lightborn couldn't even make the flashlights take over 0.1 seconds to blind a killer, so they were still insta-blinds, through Lightborn.

The Wraith used to spawn into the match uncloaked, and would have to cloak to stealth. Since the Wraith's bell's range was universal and everyone could hear the bell, regardless of add-ons, this would essentially mean that no stealth could be had as the Wraith, even on the first survivor.

The list goes on and on, but those are a few laughable examples of imbalance.

Man, the devs should write for Comedy Central with their horrendous attempts at balancing the game.

[dylan the jewish guy]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

Escrito originalmente por dylan the jewish guy:

Infinites lasted several months, because it was the devs' opinion that infinites took skill to pull off, and that they were mind games.

Active (set by the Trapper) bear traps could be sabotaged.

Hooks used to not respawn. Once survivors took them all down, they stayed down. Permanently. Which is why Jake used to be viewed as the scum of the earth.

A survivor used to be able to blind a killer with a flashlight during the hooking animation, forcing the survivor off the hook in some cases, making for some laughably impossible transitions between animations. Especially given that the hooking animation used to be longer.

Jungle gyms used to have 2 windows and 2 pallets. Nobody needed the pallets anyways, because the 2 windows were enough to infinite any killer with no risk of being caught. In other words, they were legitimate infinites. Solved by window blockers and the removal of an entire window in a jungle gym, after several months.

The odd bulb add-on for the flashlight originally did nothing. When the devs figured out how to make it work, it created an actual insta-blind. As in, all it took was <0.05 seconds to blind a killer with a purple flashlight with an odd bulb and high end sapphire lens. Meaning a survivor could get off over several dozen blinds easily. And Lightborn couldn't even make the flashlights take over 0.1 seconds to blind a killer, so they were still insta-blinds, through Lightborn.

The Wraith used to spawn into the match uncloaked, and would have to cloak to stealth. Since the Wraith's bell's range was universal and everyone could hear the bell, regardless of add-ons, this would essentially mean that no stealth could be had as the Wraith, even on the first survivor.

The list goes on and on, but those are a few laughable examples of imbalance.

Man, the devs should write for Comedy Central with their horrendous attempts at balancing the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQYKOoTPgQ0

[Lord Regal]

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

Escrito originalmente por Lord Regal:

Except it's not "without much effort". It requires almost the same amount of effort that it would to kill someone who went to struggle on their first hook before being saved, save the transport time to the hook. That's it. There is no added benefit to an ebony Mori except your travel time is replaced by Mori animation time. Otherwise the functional difference is identical. If that's the case, why bother burning an ultra rare offering you hardly ever get? It's just the same as playing vanilla with one tiny change. That's what makes it absolutely worthless right now.

I disagree. Unless you are hard camping a survivor until the second hook stage, moris have greater value. I have been in countless matches where I managed to hook each survivor at least once, but was only able to get a single kill because hooking them 3 times was too much of an effort. At higher ranks survivors bodyblock for each other and alternate being hooked knowing that they have 3 chances before dying. The Ebony Mori serves as a nice surprise in this regards.

I love Ebony moris because you can put an end to all the nonsense almost immediately. I take comfort in knowing that after the first hook, I can outright kill anyone the next time I down them, as opposed to having to hook them again 2 more times.

Couple things here:

There is no surprise about a Mori because of the way "secret" offerings work. For killers, you either played a shroud of separation or a Mori. Most people tend to auto assume Mori in that case. The only question then is what kind, which I know everyone I play with assumes Ebony until proven otherwise.

Hook rushing is absolutely an issue, but it's not related to the power of Moris. The fact is it's more lucrative and profitable to not use the ultra rare offering and play normally than to use it, while BNP is more lucrative than to not use it. And with no one refuting the proposal that BNP are easier to find than Moris, why would you ever bring an ebony into the game, knowing it's worthless? Hell, I get a LOT more use out of a cut coin than any kind of Mori anymore, because it prevents itemless survs from finding items and keeps the game vanilla (I only burn a cut coin if no survivor goes in with an item). If I need to go through the process of chasing, hitting, chasing, downing, and hooking regardless of offering, I'd rather not burn something that might be useful, maybe, in the lategame. I have better options. And for an ultra rare offering that used to bend the game strongly in the killer's favor, that's sad to say.

[se05239]

Escrito originalmente por dylan the jewish guy:

Escrito originalmente por Ragnoraok:

Man, the devs should write for Comedy Central with their horrendous attempts at balancing the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQYKOoTPgQ0

That video is gold. The one from 72hrs is also quite good.