Project CARS 2

Project CARS 2

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Maxagaze Jun 9, 2021 @ 2:24pm
How much shaky does the steering wheel has to be?
I mean in terms of realism.
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Janfin Jun 10, 2021 @ 1:18am 
Never been in a car?
Mahjik Jun 10, 2021 @ 5:35am 
In reality, zero. However, since we are not in real cars and 90% of the race sim population isn't using tactile devices and motion rigs, those other sensations are augmented through FFB.
Maxagaze Jun 10, 2021 @ 3:17pm 
Originally posted by Janfin:
Never been in a car?
In a racing car no. Have you?
EF_Neo1st Jun 10, 2021 @ 9:14pm 
Originally posted by Maxagaze:
Originally posted by Janfin:
Never been in a car?
In a racing car no. Have you?
It depend from vehicle to vehicle.

Usually the vintage cars and F1 cars (or open wheels) were much more wild on the steering wheel, but so are karts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auXfAHHNSFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjQwjJiwHg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCqdS8LSKCk
cars that dont have any power steering the steering wheel will bounce left and right (basically wanting to murder you even on straights) because of every track detail, also because of engine torque kicking on the steering wheel.

Still, even a GT3 car you have some stuff that is more than just heavy/light feeling on your steering wheel, as it is possible to notice:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCqdS8LSKCk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqmvMIZCkZ4
The guys there are not moving the steering wheel left and right even on straights (even if just a little, they are moving) because they have some problems on their hands or because they are tired, they are in fact holding the steering wheel as steady as they can (even because on a straight you want to go as straight as possible and through a turn it is the same, as smooth as possible too), tho sometimes it is a correction because of loss of grip or something else, many times the small movements are actually the steering wheel.

Everything else (weight transfer, grip feeling, brake and throttle feeling) is fake FFB that portray what you would feel through your seat, your body and pedals reaction to when you are locking tyres or dont have as much or more contact with the ground (and, well, up to you to use it or not, to have it all or not on your FFB, FFB depend on taste and expectancy, some want just steering column feeling, some want just power steering feeling through FFB no matter the car or vehicle driven, even a kart where it dont even make sense that a kart could have power steering but it is taste).

I like to feel everything and to feel everything (every little piece of information the FFB can deliver, steering column FFB and fake FFB feeling portraying weight transfer, etc) as strong as my G29 can convey and I can not find any joy in a simulator that dont have every single detail conveyed through FFB (because it is my taste for it) so every sim I have I try to set FFB to convey everything about the same (or as about the same as possible as each sim portray things from slightly differently to a lot different).
Karmaterrorᵁᴷ Jun 10, 2021 @ 9:14pm 
Look at onboard race footage, no wheel shake unless something is wrong with the car. For example a car with unbalanced wheels will cause the steering wheel to shake, sometimes violently at speed.

The car itself is what shakes as it gets buffeted about by the wind, shifts its weight, hits bumps etc. I think thats what Mahjik is saying, you can get some of that "feel" from FFB. Its that car shake your trying to simulate though, not any wheel shake :)
EF_Neo1st Jun 10, 2021 @ 9:19pm 
Originally posted by Karmaterrorᵁᴷ:
Look at onboard race footage, no wheel shake unless something is wrong with the car. For example a car with unbalanced wheels will cause the steering wheel to shake, sometimes violently at speed.

The car itself is what shakes as it gets buffeted about by the wind, shifts its weight, hits bumps etc. I think thats what Mahjik is saying, you can get some of that "feel" from FFB. Its that car shake your trying to simulate though, not any wheel shake :)
For cars with a good power steering . . . yes.
Cars without power steering it dont need anything to be "wrong" witht he car to cause some shaking (some, it will not be much and most of the time almost not noticeable or not noticeable at all because the driver is holding it in place but for something with power steering hardly there would be some steering wheel movement and to have any massive movement there would be needed some massive reaction from the car).
Karmaterrorᵁᴷ Jun 10, 2021 @ 10:15pm 
When i read "shake" im thinking like a vibration. Exactly what it feels like with unbalanced wheels at speed, if you know how that feels. If you look at the rally vids there is no shake on the wheel, just them making normal corrections on a loose surface.

PA or none PA should be just as stable with zero shake/vibration on the wheel. Sure it should give you feedback about what the road wheels are up to, but personally id describe that as more of a pulling force not a consistent shaking.

When a steering wheel shakes its a sign of unbalanced wheels, worn bearings, uneven camber etc etc
Mahjik Jun 11, 2021 @ 6:35am 
<-- Real life (non-professional) race driver here.

No steering wheels do not shake, rattle and bop around. The car chassis will and everything attached, but not the steering wheel by itself. If the steering wheel is doing that on its own, it means something connecting the steering rod to the steering rack, or the rack itself, is loose and about to fall apart.

As mentioned earlier, these effects that we have on our home sim racing wheels is to simulate the chassis since we aren't in real cars, and the majority of sim drivers do not have a full tactile system with a full sim rig.
EF_Neo1st Jun 11, 2021 @ 6:42am 
Originally posted by Mahjik:
<-- Real life (non-professional) race driver here.

No steering wheels do not shake, rattle and bop around. The car chassis will and everything attached, but not the steering wheel by itself. If the steering wheel is doing that on its own, it means something connecting the steering rod to the steering rack, or the rack itself, is loose and about to fall apart.

As mentioned earlier, these effects that we have on our home sim racing wheels is to simulate the chassis since we aren't in real cars, and the majority of sim drivers do not have a full tactile system with a full sim rig.
Well . . . then I guess both the Fusca (like from year 79~80 beetle) and VW Polo (both without power steering) I knew always had "some problem" that never been taken care of.
(and no, I am not joking or making fun, I am telling what it was to me).
Mahjik Jun 11, 2021 @ 6:55am 
Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:
Originally posted by Mahjik:
<-- Real life (non-professional) race driver here.

No steering wheels do not shake, rattle and bop around. The car chassis will and everything attached, but not the steering wheel by itself. If the steering wheel is doing that on its own, it means something connecting the steering rod to the steering rack, or the rack itself, is loose and about to fall apart.

As mentioned earlier, these effects that we have on our home sim racing wheels is to simulate the chassis since we aren't in real cars, and the majority of sim drivers do not have a full tactile system with a full sim rig.
Well . . . then I guess both the Fusca (like from year 79~80 beetle) and VW Polo (both without power steering) I knew always had "some problem" that never been taken care of.
(and no, I am not joking or making fun, I am telling what it was to me).

The lack of power steering is not relevant. I own an Alfa Romeo 4C:

https://mahjik.homestead.com/files/hosting/Alfa/AR_4C_HMP_04.jpg

No power steering and the steering wheel doesn't shake or rattle. Again, that doesn't mean you don't feel vibrations through a steering rack, but the steering column will be bolted to the chassis (in two places), then it connects to the steering rack which is also bolted to the chassis (in four places). Unless those connections are loose (which does and can happen), it shouldn't physically move. Again, that doesn't mean you don't feel vibrations that travel through the metal but typically you won't notice them because you'll have more sensations through the chassis.
Karmaterrorᵁᴷ Jun 11, 2021 @ 8:07am 
Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:
Originally posted by Mahjik:
<-- Real life (non-professional) race driver here.

No steering wheels do not shake, rattle and bop around. The car chassis will and everything attached, but not the steering wheel by itself. If the steering wheel is doing that on its own, it means something connecting the steering rod to the steering rack, or the rack itself, is loose and about to fall apart.

As mentioned earlier, these effects that we have on our home sim racing wheels is to simulate the chassis since we aren't in real cars, and the majority of sim drivers do not have a full tactile system with a full sim rig.
Well . . . then I guess both the Fusca (like from year 79~80 beetle) and VW Polo (both without power steering) I knew always had "some problem" that never been taken care of.
(and no, I am not joking or making fun, I am telling what it was to me).

Wheel balancing dude, its so cheap its worth doing every few months, if not defo do it on any car you buy, and whenever you change tyres.

My first car was a Nissan Sunny, loved it because it looked like the Pulsar (or at least thats what i told myself haha). That had terrible steering wheel shake at around 80mph all the way up to its top end, getting worse and worse the faster you went. Think a massage chair type vibration but much more amplified.. gave you dead arms after a while.

Got wheels balanced and all of a sudden it was like a dream, no shake even when screaming away as fast as it would go :)
EF_Neo1st Jun 11, 2021 @ 8:30am 
Originally posted by Karmaterrorᵁᴷ:
Originally posted by EF_Neo1st:
Well . . . then I guess both the Fusca (like from year 79~80 beetle) and VW Polo (both without power steering) I knew always had "some problem" that never been taken care of.
(and no, I am not joking or making fun, I am telling what it was to me).

Wheel balancing dude, its so cheap its worth doing every few months, if not defo do it on any car you buy, and whenever you change tyres.

My first car was a Nissan Sunny, loved it because it looked like the Pulsar (or at least thats what i told myself haha). That had terrible steering wheel shake at around 80mph all the way up to its top end, getting worse and worse the faster you went. Think a massage chair type vibration but much more amplified.. gave you dead arms after a while.

Got wheels balanced and all of a sudden it was like a dream, no shake even when screaming away as fast as it would go :)
I had these cars.
The Polo got wrecked by an oldman that "forgot to use the handbrake when parking on a hill" (lol, yes and I lost 50% of the car value + all the engine work I had done on the car, what almost sums up for the total value of the car) and now I have a powersteering car that I can literally hold it steady and drive with 1 finger (not that I do use only 1 finger but someone told me I could do that and so I tested, in comparison to both Polo and Fusca the Chevrolet Spark I can literally hold it steady or drive with 1 finger of 1 hand only . . . I guess that is also reason why so many morons drive with 1 hand and use the other at whatsapp or whatever then comes the crashes).

I never crashed (something that I would not consider to be "proud of" but by looking at the rate people do these silly mistakes....) with any car I drove and what my grandfather always told me since I was young: "when driving attention is 100% on the street and the surroundings, drive for you but before anything drive for all others because you never know what others will do, the car can be a weapon is used wrong"; and the "whatsapp drivers" make for part of the danger as they dont seem to consider any of this and their attention is "at least" spread 50% to whatsapp or whatever else they are using there.

I know I derailed it a lot from the "steering wheel shaking" but, piece of advice when driving that I learned and that work at real life or in-game, always look for drivers around you or near and try to think what the other driver will do and where the other driver is, avoiding crashes go both ways, you and the other driver, and if the other driver dont have a mind of his/her own on that, let the moron go, he/she will probably crash somewhere else or on someone else.

You are racing and you are not obligated to give your position, you have all the right to fight for your position or to defend it, but remember that a damaged car may not even get to the end of a race, so whenever you fight for a position, defending or trying to overtake, try to watch and consider how the other driver do, in case of doubt or if you dont think it will be a "more safe move" to overtake/defend, just dont do, you avoid a collision and life continue, also if the other driver is slower eventually you wil overtake or if the other driver is faster eventually he will overtake you (but in the case of the driver behind being faster than you, most probably the driver behind you will force you to wear more your tyres, so also for tyres concern, unless it is on a final lap or near it, it may not be a bad idea to let the faster driver go, maybe you even get more positions because of guys not being able to defend anymore or also handing him/her the position . . or if he/she crash on someone else).

I lost count of how many races I got to 5th, 3rd or even won, starting from last position, by just watching people get murdered or commiting suicide in front of me, also the T1 and 1st lap heroes that destroy 50% to 70% of the field in 1st lap or 1st turn.
If you are faster than others you will get ahead, if you are not you just will not ;)
Maxagaze Jun 11, 2021 @ 2:49pm 
I thank everybody for your data that you provided me. The reason why I am asking this is because (from my experience with FFB) there is a point where, the wheel becomes so twitchy that gets almost unbearable, and I wanted to know if this is the same in real life.
Last edited by Maxagaze; Jun 11, 2021 @ 2:49pm
EF_Neo1st Jun 11, 2021 @ 3:15pm 
Originally posted by Maxagaze:
I thank everybody for your data that you provided me. The reason why I am asking this is because (from my experience with FFB) there is a point where, the wheel becomes so twitchy that gets almost unbearable, and I wanted to know if this is the same in real life.
It depends . . .
Even considering fake FFB for weight transfer and everything else, too much movement left and right from the wheel (even on loosey surfaces such as rally that are also full of bumps and holes at the track) may mean something is damaged or broken.

PC2 can show you if something is damaged on your car, pay attention to the damage levels of engine and car body parts on your bottom right at the screen, by the speedometer.

Still, anyway you want to drive it as smooth as possible to be faster (given certain situations where some sliding or small controlled spin are of use, but on the long run may damage your tyres beyond driveability and the tyre wear by itself can also cause this).
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Date Posted: Jun 9, 2021 @ 2:24pm
Posts: 14