[Suggestion] Deity-specific reward characters

[76561188078797539]

Just unlocked Horos' Nightstalker, and I have to admit that having it replace a random party member is somewhat underwhelming in practice.

For instance, the 7-man Crafter start gives only three viable gathering characters (hunter and 2 gatherers). If the Nightstalker replaces one of the gatherers, it requires keeping both the hunter and gatherer in town to keep fuel and food stocks replenished - meaning, the "foraging" party has no gathering capacity unless some Crafter lucked out with a gathering point.

I'd suggest making the deity-reward characters additional ones, rather than replace somebody from the original lineup. This isn't so much an issue with larger starting group, but with the 7-man start the randomness of it can severely cripple a game right from the start. It does feel less of a reward and more of a mixed bag as it's currently implemented, at least in Horos' case.

[Lampros]

I absolutely, uncategorically, positively, uninhibitedly, wholeheartedly, unreservedly, passionately support this suggestion. The nightstalker divine reward seems like a malus rather than a bonus.

[Ex Mudder]

What if it replaced one of the children instead?

[76561188078797539]

Could also replace one of the "selected-start-type" characters not to gimp the player so much. Losing a kid would be so, so much more preferable, though.

As it is right now, with the skill distribution Nightstalker has, it's pretty damn annoying when it gimps you right from the start. Either you lose on the Hunter (you need two gatherers to sit in town and secure food/fuel), meaning no Hunting challenges to easily dispose of beasts, or you lose on a Crafter - meaning that harder Assassination challenges on undead.

It's not even as if Nightstalker is that good stat-wise (and this one was a very, very lucky 3 Gathering points assignment):
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=570669514

This is one after about four level-ups (and no gathering in this case - the only stat not on the screenshot is 2 wounds it had):
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=570667274

If I could, I'd turn them off altogether right now.

[Galdred]

seconded. These special characters are currently quite underwhelming. If they replaced one warrior, it would not be a big loss (although a warrior for a sage might be a bad trade off in the beginning too...).

[A'vee]

We have boosted Nightstalker a bit, have a look after the next patch if it works better you.

[76561188078797539]

A'vee님이 먼저 게시:

We have boosted Nightstalker a bit, have a look after the next patch if it works better you.

I think it's not so much the stats themselves, as replacement of other (in 7-man start critical) character that makes this somewhat of a penalty.

I'd still suggest making these characters additional to the base start, but will see if I can scrunge up time today evening to test (assuming the changes are live on the beta branch)?

As always, thanks for active participation on these forums, A'vee :)

[Pentalis]

The experience described here is pretty much my experience with Veles' Sage. By replacing one of the basic crew in the 7-villager start, you gimp yourself instead of boosting which is what one would expect from those beefed up characters.

The new powerful villager should either:
1.- be a new villager, giving us an 8-people start
2.- be an option when our first child grows up
3.- arrive on their own to the village after a few turns (say 30 turns)
4.- replace one villager, but have _MUCH_ stronger stats, basically having as many stats as the villager they replaced plus a bunch of extra stats with their powers

Option 3 seems good to me. Option 2 wouldn't work with Veles' Sage since it wouldn't fit with the lore.

[A'vee]

The change is not yet live. We think that adding another character would have too big influence on balance, especially when you play 7 people group. We'll have a look if another approach would be better, but for now have a look if that boost is enough.

[Lampros]

A'vee님이 먼저 게시:

We have boosted Nightstalker a bit, have a look after the next patch if it works better you.

It's not the stats; it's really the general practice that a deity unit replaces rather than adds to your line-up.

[Lampros]

A'vee님이 먼저 게시:

We think that adding another character would have too big influence on balance, especially when you play 7 people group. We'll have a look if another approach would be better, but for now have a look if that boost is enough.

But I am not sure if this logic is persuasive. In my opinion, having 1 extra character cannot possibly be more influential than some of the really strong deity bonuses. For instance, is it more influential than everyone having 5 extra HPs (the final Perrun bonus)? No way.

[A'vee]

Perun is the last god, the most powerful from the entire pantheon. We wanted him to give good bonuses, better than other gods. From the "lower" gods - what do you think would be a comparable bonus for having an additional villager at start?

[Lampros]

A'vee님이 먼저 게시:

Perun is the last god, the most powerful from the entire pantheon. We wanted him to give good bonuses, better than other gods. From the "lower" gods - what do you think would be a comparable bonus for having an additional villager at start?

+2 Will, +1 Intelligence, and +3 Health bonus that Lada gives after the completion of tier 2, for instance. But I do concede that my perspective on this issue is based on the context I play with the normal 10 villager start.

Edit: Keep in mind that 3 HPs is like 30 percent or more for most unit (except warrior) start HPs.

[Ex Mudder]

A'vee님이 먼저 게시:

what do you think would be a comparable bonus for having an additional villager at start?

I'd suggest that the extra villager be treated as a grown up child (-1 child). That should help with a number of issues.

You could also add a new villager (dwarf, elf, orc, witch) to the other gods for balance. I'd love a god that guaranteed me a Witch at start, for example (Veles?). Or an elf, so my Hunter could have a hunting / trapping / stealth friend.

If you keep the same # at start, Nightstalker should probably replace a Warrior. Sages should replace whichever you have the most of (Warrior for Warrior start, Gatherer for Gatherer, Crastman for Craftsmen).

Another idea is Dogmeat (Fallout). Give the starting village a beast of some sort: 7-10 villagers plus a beast. And then replace the Beast with the bonus villager from the god.

[Lampros]

Ex Mudder님이 먼저 게시:

A'vee님이 먼저 게시:

what do you think would be a comparable bonus for having an additional villager at start?

I'd suggest that the extra villager be treated as a grown up child (-1 child). That should help with a number of issues.

You could also add a new villager (dwarf, elf, orc, witch) to the other gods for balance. I'd love a god that guaranteed me a Witch at start, for example (Veles?). Or an elf, so my Hunter could have a hunting / trapping / stealth friend.

If you keep the same # at start, Nightstalker should probably replace a Warrior. Sages should replace whichever you have the most of (Warrior for Warrior start, Gatherer for Gatherer, Crastman for Craftsmen).

Another idea is Dogmeat (Fallout). Give the starting village a beast of some sort: 7-10 villagers plus a beast. And then replace the Beast with the bonus villager from the god.

Hmmm, did I misunderstand A'vee's question? I am now confused ;(

[A'vee]

No, Lampros :) I asked if there is another perk that could be as strong as having +1 special villager at start, sounds like you answered it.