attractable creature balance, elves OP?

[Frenetic]

i think elves are a bit too strong with the current mechanic of piercing. with how piercing works, its inherent polearm ability on all of them is a bit too good i think.
give them a ancient wood / dragon bone 2h axe or any decent axe and and theyre stronger in combat than dwarves, orcs, and all demons except for liho.
that the elven wanderer from the event and the elven druids/mages from the elf village have inherent polearm ability is fine.. but that the normal elves from attracting creature have that too is a bit too good. to me it makes almost no sense trying to attract anything else like this.

[robbie.price]

They are a touch OP, but there is Lore support for that. They were the Magical and surpreme guardians of the supports of the world.

[Falrim]

Well, it is harder to attract elves... As far as I know, only elven wood would used in the building would attract them and this usually lead to a building that is not as efficient as one would like. (eg. barracks provide less attk bonus or palisade provides less shielding bonus)

[mar3usmc]

That is basically it. If you want elves you have to go all in when it comes to buildings, which comes with loss of their basic purpose. Your other option is hoping that you get lucky with the wandering elf event, which I have gotten 4x, 1 early on so I couldn't recruit him, but later with a couple magic users I got 3 of them. Yes, they are by far my best party members. However, my Yaga witches are also VERY VERY OP!!! Massive strength AND magic. Both combined, and, well yea it is pretty ridiculous. However, I am ok with that because I play on 200% difficulty, and enemies and events are freaken ridiculous. Starting out I was running away if I could from almost everything.

[Frenetic]

i play on 250%+

Originally posted by Falrim:

Well, it is harder to attract elves... As far as I know, only elven wood would used in the building would attract them and this usually lead to a building that is not as efficient as one would like. (eg. barracks provide less attk bonus or palisade provides less shielding bonus)

that is actually only partially true.
considering elven wood is really cheap to come by and easy to gather, they provide quite decent boni. actually better than with dragon bones for attracting demons. watchtower, smithy with 50 elven wood gives +2.. if you use ancient or enchanted bones for that along with gold or steel you only get +1 for example.
the watchtower radius is actually quite important and a bit more crafting for everyone is nice too.. but seriously why do you care about attk bonus or shielding bonus of your village? i couldnt care less lol. if you have to rely on that i dont know what to say.. ^^

the only thing thats true that the attract creature number is actually quite low. but a developer once said it depends alot on your total number of population too, lower pop means higher attraction (thats why i also send any weaklings on suicide scouting missions, unless the cosmic tree questline is about to finish and i can trade them at the elven village.

okay and here is another thing. if you side with humans you get scholars which are comparably really terrible. they have like 4 strength, cant equip ♥♥♥♥ with them and their stats are more or less on par with a sage... compare that with the orc matriarch from siding with the dark side or elven druids/mages... theyre just so much better... i just say try beating the dark giant endboss with a bunch of scholars... good luck with that! XD

[Falrim]

Well i play on 300%, realism and bloodbath... i did the giant(social) with probably 1 elf, 1 dwarven smith and rest are human...
And well it isnt very easy to stack elf attraction with realism on... i just went with human and beast attraction instead and some dwarf since i had the gold at tt time...
And i just wanted to use the shielding bonus and attk as an example...

[mar3usmc]

I just got an elf through the village, and he was way under powered compared to the wandering elf versions. No where even close to being as powerful. Just base 11 health, 11 Strength and a bunch of other relatively mediocre stats. 0 in magic as well.

So yea, maybe it is just the wandering elf that is OP and needs to be toned down.

However, the Dwarves I get through my village are really good with 20+ strength always, and plenty of health (30+) to boot.

[Lampros]

Can't you make an argument that Dwarves are stronger than Elves?

[Kaerius]

Elf strength is the piercing damage with 2h axes. Dwarves rock with war hammers though, thanks to their high strength.

[odin87654321]

I like the fact elves have such a valuable niche, and that seeking them out has costs with respect to building effectiveness.

Regarding attract mechanics... If anything, I think that the chance of a scrawny goblin or basic bee is overly punishing to the player, given the population cap mechanics.

[Frenetic]

Originally posted by mar3usmc:

I just got an elf through the village, and he was way under powered compared to the wandering elf versions. No where even close to being as powerful. Just base 11 health, 11 Strength and a bunch of other relatively mediocre stats. 0 in magic as well.

So yea, maybe it is just the wandering elf that is OP and needs to be toned down.

However, the Dwarves I get through my village are really good with 20+ strength always, and plenty of health (30+) to boot.

strength and health are nice in the earlier stages of the game, but once youre able to craft proper weapons and armor its not that crucial anymore. give an elf a mithril heavy armor and a dragon bone ancient wood 2h axe and then you know what i mean. a dwarf with a mithril / moonstone spear cant compete with that.
but like kaerius said, dwarves make for really good hammer users. because with blunt weapons their strength is actually quite useful. and the optimal team has like 2-4 blunt weapon guys too in your team to take out the trash quickly.
but when you use axes their damage output is already so high that the ~10 extra strength hardly matters. 10-14 strength is already mroe than enough to equip all the best gear. even 8 strength would already be enough for elves in the lategame because they dont need silver armors because their stealth is already so high.
and with health. its nice to be able to absorb a hit but the thing about elves is that they all already come with around 10 stealth so there really is need to bump up any dex with them.
dwarves often need the silver / enchanted bone jewlery, glove of the assassin and/or silver or leather armors so they can do something in support role. especially if you use a blunt weapon with them. with polearm dwarves can do quite alot of damage in the offhand too, but then elves with the axe are better again.
and if you play your cards right you never get hit in the first place. even dragon fights are a walk in the park once you have enough research.
all in all, if i had a choice i would prefer the first creature that gets attracted to my village to be a dwarf but after that elves all th way^^

[Lampros]

So the best weapon configuration per race is:

Human (Fighter): 2H sword + shield

Dwarf: 2H hammer

Elves: 2H Axe or 1H axe + shield

Shouldn't Orc fighters get some boosts? Frankly, I think their stats should be better than is currently, as they were inferior to Dwarves and Elves, and now inferior to even Human fighters.

[Frenetic]

orcs are kinda like dwarves actually. the normal fighter ones at least. they have more health but a bit less less strength compared to dwarves. orc fighters often come with high traps, though i usually prefer to go for stealth with them anyways. i equip them like dwarves with blunt weapons and lategame monster seeker silver armor and some +dex/stealth jewlery. because elves are too valuable to play even from the offhand into combat for their polearm ability, so you need some guys with stealth if you wanna oneshot the biggest threats like dragons. with humans i go for mostly hunters. because theyre not too bad in the combat side but quite nice in the offhand.
im not sure if its possible to attract any matriarchs or witches with the buildings, so far i only got fighters and workers. but they are both superior to their respective humans, though the workers have usually less gathering, but can be used for crafting in town too.

so if you have steel nearby but no gold you can go for orcs aswell. theyre balanced i would say.
ifi have a choice i prefer dwarves, because one of them is also really amazing in the lategame to defend the town, and craft with 20+ so you never get any low quality gear.

but with gear i agree.
fighters with 2h sword and shield, as long as they arent replaced. in the lategame they really fall off though, even gatherers might be stronger because they can equip jewlery and thus have more options to be played from the offhand.

with dwarves you can even go for a 1h hammer + shield in the early-midgame, its actually quite good because the early game hammers that you dont craft yourself dont really bump up the damage that much, while with a shield they actually get really tanky too.

as with demons, i really like the randomness of their attraction, they can sometimes be really cool and they usually come with alot of magic so it can be highly beneficial to get them asap incase the wanderer event triggers ^^