Was Ryouta Neglected? [Spoilers]

[MuddyMaestro]

In case the title wasn't obvious enough, beware of spoilers, including elements of the original Hatoful Boyfriend.

I lost a lot of enjoyment from The Day the Night Slept due to the outcome for Ryouta being majorly neglected, in my opinion. The most touching moment for me in the whole sequence was Yuuya's talk with Ryouta, but what surprised me more than anything was Ryouta's insecurity, fearing being distanced from Hiyoko and feeling threatened by her friendship with Nageki.

When that whole sequence began and Yuuya asked Ryouta what was causing him to feel pain, I was expecting him to respond with believing he wouldn't be able to care for Hiyoko due to his short life span. I was already pretty convinced that The King/Kazuaki-Kun was trying to sway Ryouta to remain on Holiday Star with the temptation of being able to exist with Hiyoko forever, without the fear of an untimely death ever parting them. In actuality, he was tempted to be with her eternally... but for a totally different reason, in that Nageki would not be among them, and would rid the threat of Ryouta having his heart broken.

This left me really unsettled until I finished the story and thought things through, and I'm still not entirely pleased with what I've deduced. I presume that the events through the original game leading up to The Day the Night Slept's events follow Nageki's route, but one that doesn't see him move on to the afterlife by the time he and Hikoyo realized they loved each other. This would lead to Ryouta feeling insecure as he watches his closest companion fall for someone else. Maybe it's just me, but the fact the after that discussion with Yuuya (in which he still didn't seem entirely confident in a decision) he wholeheartedly the adopts the "let the cards fall where they may" attitude seems like he was willing to give up his feelings for her.

Now, I'm a big fan of Ryouta. I can't really imagine any endings besides Ryouta's standard route and the BBL route being the true canon for the game, but that's just how I prefer to view their universe. I guess I have an exceptionally tender heart for him, especially since I had already majorly fallen for him before even knowing the BBL ending existed, which was like having to watch him be stabbed with emotional daggers over and over. So, I had a really hard time enjoying The Day the Night Slept once it alluded to him giving up his love for Hikoyo. It really feels like he should have at least received some assurance from Hikoyo that their friendship would endure. Am I the only one finding he was neglected, or am I missing something?

[Phoenix]

I think you're missing the fact that the Holiday Star is a dream world where the King is twisting their minds and fears to use against them in order to get them to stay. Ryouta's insecurity did not manifest on this level until Yuuya confronted him, so prior to arriving on the Holiday Star he had those fears kept in check. However, on the Holiday Star, the King played with his mind in a bad way and was very successful at it because Ryouta was afraid of being hurt. He had lost his father years before, had seen Hiyoko lose her parents during the Hatoful House attack, was watching his mother grow sicker each day, and was not physically very healthy himself. Hiyoko had been his anchor his whole life, and deep down, he was afraid of being left hurt and alone - just like the King was when he was Kazuaki-Kun. Of all those who arrived on the Holiday Star, Ryouta was just the most vulnerable and the King knew exactly how to manipulate his anxiety. by the time Yuuya got to him, the King had already gotten to his mind and he was about at the tipping point.

Yuuya was also in the unfortunate position of being exactly the wrong bird to try to counsel Ryouta. If it were Hiyoko there, Ryouta would have been immediately reassured. If it had been Nageki, again, he could have reassured Ryouta that Hiyoko would not abandon him. Yuuya had the maturity and sense to know what to do, but because he always played at being the suave sexy playbird his outward persona worked against him.

I would say Ryouta was not neglected. He was just dealt a very difficult life and walked headlong into a nightmare that he wasn't equipped to deal with alone.

[MuddyMaestro]

I wouldn't say that he had his insecurities in check before the dream events. Considering that prior events seem to follow Nageki's route, he'd likely still be harboring the secrets of his mother being in the hospital (or perhaps even dead since these events take place after that game) and his unpronounced love for Hiyoko. I've got no issue with the scene between Ryouta and Yuuya and believe it to have been pretty smart writing, but by the end, Hiyoko is still unaware that his feelings for her transcend beyond friendship. Anxiety doesn't just go away, but only becomes more obsessive over time. It's the right choice at that point to fight for the sake of the group, but it's presented as if he'll have to deal with potentially losing his companion in the future without any resolution at the end.

The beautiful thing about BBL is that as traumatizing as it is, by the end everyone's gotten to realize and face their dark pasts, and come away better from it (obviously aside from Hiyoko dying, but if you believe that her spirit will always be there to guide Ryouta, it's not so bad). The common theme in The Day the Night Slept seems to be coping with troubles, rather than letting it overwhelm you and make an irrational choice like Ryouta would in the bad ending. But still, it would seem Ryouta would have to live on dealing with his mother by himself while potentially losing his relationship with Hiyoko, and just hardly seems like a happy ending for him. There seemed to be no attempt to console him either in the narrative, hence why it felt he was neglected to me. We don't really know what'll become of him in the future, and maybe there were plans for a further sequel, but if that's as far as the holiday star canon extends then he doesn't seem to have much closure.

[Phoenix]

The events in Holiday Star do not take place after the original. They happen around Christmas time in the Sophmore year. That's answered during the radio segments. At that point in the Hatoful story, Ryouta does have control over his fears in the real world, or at least, they've not been made manifest anywhere near to the degree they are while he's trapped on the Holiday Star. Remember too that in every other story route in Hatoful, Ryouta does not go off the deep end even though Hiyoko follows a different path. His behavior toward Hiyoko is fairly consistent. Part of that probably has to do with the way the narrative path is set up, where Moa did not intend on altering character behavior much through the multiple story arc. Still... even after what happens to her in BBL he doesn't go completely to pieces until Shuu messes with his head and hangs a giant technicality-riddled guilt trip on him.

Ryouta is a survivor that is simply overly burdened. Normally he can handle things. It's not until someone - be it the King or Shuu - undermines him with self-doubt and guilt that he falters.

[MuddyMaestro]

I suppose the fact that Ryouta isn't shown struggling over Hiyoko's pursuits is a good point. Granted, he hardly shows up in the later segments of others' routes and we only see him in informal settings, so it's difficult to say what he's really feeling, especially seeing that it would go against the fantastic nature of the standard routes if he really was troubled. It's hard to say how it affects him, but I suppose it's also hard to say what could become of any of the characters by the end of the tale if Hiyoko doesn't romance them. Ryouta, and perhaps Nageki, seem like the only ones who need Hikoyo to achieve a happy ending, and most others would likely find their way to happiness on their own anyhow.

I suppose I'm looking for some quick closure myself, seeing that I'm playing Holiday Star on Vita and currently not all of the short episodes are working properly, so I've been waiting on that to be resolved before proceeding further. I'm also not a major buff on the full universe since I haven't read all the manga, but I've heard that those also deviate a bit from the stories in the games. I just can't help but see Ryouta as a ticking time bomb, acting as though everything's cool on the surface, but the few times we get to peek into his true inner thoughts, he seems very troubled. Even though those occasions where he was under the most strain, everyone has a breaking point that'll likely be reached at some time in life. Just because you don't see it outwardly manifest, doesn't mean that anxiety and fear isn't always present, and although he's incredibly strong-willed in fighting for his friends in both BBL and Holiday Star, it's hard to say what will become of him once his support structure is gone.

[Phoenix]

I think what was most telling was in Ryouta's dialogue with Yuuya on the Holiday Star. He speaks about how his relationship with Hiyoko goes beyond what Yuuya can understand. Yuuya simply has to bring Ryouta back to realizing that just because Hiyoko is being friendly with Nageki it doesn't mean she's just going to throw Ryouta aside like an old sweater. Once he comes to realize this he later asks to get together with her and she's confused as to why he's being so formal (read: timid) about it. Their relationship is an extremely deep friendship that is lasting, even if he doesn't end up as her romantic interest. Even if Hiyoko takes a different path from Ryouta it doesn't always necessarily mean a complete end to their friendship. Looking at the various routes, here's how it breaks down:

Ryouta: No explanation needed.
Nageki: He fades away forever, and Ryouta is still there.
Yuuya: No reason they can't stay in touch.
Sakuya: No reason they can't stay in touch.
Kazuaki: No reason they can't stay in touch.
Anghel: No reason they can't stay in touch.
Azami: No reason they can't stay in touch.
Okosan: The nature of the universe is completely changed. Unknown.
Shuu: Hiyoko dies. Ryouta would have trouble here.
Bad End: Hiyoko dies. Ryouta would have trouble here.
BBL: Everyone returns at the end to cure Ryouta and (maybe) do something for Hiyoko.
Holiday Star: Alternate Nageki route. Ryouta and Hiyoko remain friends either way.
Holiday Star King Ending: They're together forever, and become the King.

In the BBL route the support structure is definitely there since everybirdie returns to help Ryouta. Unless the Hawks Party kills Hiyoko or Shuu kills her, Ryouta can still have contact with her, so technically those are the only two paths that Ryouta would be left without Hiyoko. Those endings would expose Ryouta to the most tragedy: First, losing Hiyoko, then his mother later dying (which we know will happen because of Ryouta's route). That would leave him completely alone. Whether he would recover from that or not would be a question that only Moa could properly answer.

[MuddyMaestro]

I probably made the mistake of thinking that Ryouta's love preexisted before the they enrolled, and it was just up to Hiyoko to develop those feelings for him, though it's probably more logical to think that they both viewed each other only as friends. Feelings can develop pretty fast during teenage years, and his attachment to her as a lover likely didn't exist before then. So, he'd probably do fine in any of the endings where she's still alive and well, since he probably wouldn't crave anything more in addition to their friendship due to her deviating pursuits.

I also forgot that they did have that interaction following the dream events. It's really just a token exchange, but it's actually rather clever since it could be interpreted him asking for a casual hang-out, or something more depending on what you choose to believe. In that alternate timeline I do think that he'd struggle with just being friends, but I suppose it's set up so that Hiyoko could still potentially develop her feelings for him. It's likely that Nageki would move on into the afterlife in the near future, and at that point Ryouta will still be around and waiting.

I still feel like it would have been incredibly sweet if he had confessed his feelings of love for her within the story, since I do still believe his happiness is tied to Hiyoko on that route. But I get how it could be a buzzkill for someone who favours Nageki, so I can now see why it was left out. At least I'm content that although he doesn't get an immediate happy ending, he still has the potential to be with Hiyoko. I guess I've become rather attached to him myself! I was mostly concerned with the lack of narrative attention to their relationship towards the end, but I suppose from that point on, the future of the characters are whatever you choose to believe.

[Phoenix]

Which is, I think, yet another sign of Moa being a great writer. She gives enough material to show you where things are headed, but not so much that it's completely concrete. It's just enough to allow your mind to extrapolate its own conclusion. The fact that we're here discussing it in such depth is a fantastic illustration of how different experiences lead to different interpretations of where a story would go. :)

[LUDICOLOS INTENSIFY]

Nothing bad could ever happen to Hiyoko and Ryouta's relationship.
I would never let that happen. My fangirl powers are too stronk.

[Be "Coo" Bro]

Opprinnelig skrevet av LUDICOLOS INTENSIFY:

Nothing bad could ever happen to Hiyoko and Ryouta's relationship.
I would never let that happen. My fangirl powers are too stronk.

My hunter-gatherer (fangirl) instinct boils!

[Phoenix]

Open my hato!

[Sigh Man Vanz]

I guess I came away with a completely different interpretation of the Ryouta-Yuuya exchange. I saw Ryouta as feeling overly controlling and possessive of Hiyoko at the beginning of that scene. (Yuuya even makes a remark to himself along those lines -- "I didn't take him [Ryouta] as the controlling type" or something like that). Ryouta is basically making the youthful mistake of thinking that his happiness depends entirely upon how someone else feels about him (which the more experienced Yuuya sees right through), which leads him to fear "abandonment" by Hiyoko and jealousy/anxiety over the possibility that she might "reject" him and choose to be with someone else (which, of course, is entirely her right to do). By the end, after talking to Yuuya, Ryouta learns to let go and be happy with whatever Hiyoko decides to do, whether it's end up with him or Nageki or whatever else she might decide. When he asks her out at the end of the story, he's still afraid of rejection (who isn't?), but he's willing to accept whatever answer he hears.

So I didn't interpret the ending of that scene between Ryouta & Yuuya as Ryouta "abandoning" his feelings for Hiyoko, so much as making the mature decision to accept the possibility that she might reject him, and to be okay with that.