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The nurfs on the pteranodon are hilarious, how many pteranodon trolled a dev for them to need to die in 1/4th of a bite instead of 1/2 of a bite. LOL
To cite some examples.
This is what HP looked like before.
Utahraptor had 2x HP that it did weight.
Dryosaurus had 2.8x HP that it did weight.
Hypsilophodon had 5x HP that it did weight.
Pteranodon had 2x HP that it did weight.
Tenontosaurus and Carnotaurus had 1.4x and 1.2x that they did weight.
Stegosaurus and Deinosuchus had 0.75x that they did weight.
Very random and very all over the place. It led to some weird ♥♥♥♥ like Stegosaurus being 12x Utahraptors weight but only 4x the HP, or Tenontosaurus being 3x Utahraptors weight but only 2x the HP.
Matching weight to HP creates a linear formula that makes it easier and simpler to create damage values for and matchups between animals feel far more lined up to what they are supposed to be.
To cite an example of how dumb damage was prior to this patch.
A Dryosaurus had 60% of the bitefore that a Utahraptor did. 60%, for an animal that had no decent jaws, only a dull tiny beak. That's insane. 14 pecks to kill a Utahraptor, and 9 if you manage all headshots. That can be done in less than 5 seconds if you had at least 3 Dryos ambush it.
Now, since HP has a linear balance, it resulted in buffs and nerfs across the board that are actually appropriate to the animals.
Speed was nerfed since the game for most people cannot handle the speeds that were in prior. Carnotaurus especially had the same issues that a Utahraptor did when Utahraptor was first brought into Evrima while running at similar speeds that Carnotaurus previously did -- it bugged out the game. Lots of teleporting going on, desync was more noticeable and so forth.
Also, we initially had high speeds because we were going to get a map that was even larger than V3 on Legacy. This ended uo being a bad idea (was pointed long before it even was added) because the engine couldn't handle a map that large and now according to the Trello, they are opting for a smaller map at some point. Thus, the need for those insane speeds to be used for getting around are no longer needed either.
You know they should have worded their patch notes better, your explanation helped with what I read.
All I saw was nurf nurf nurf nurf literally on everything with utah / most of the others. if they adjusted the weight/hp rate with those (all total nurfs in mind) I suppose that actually makes some much more fragile / or stronger Rock paper scissors style towards others.
That would be cool... I still think they could have made the patch notes less... well like they are.
--------------
Utahraptor
Growth time
Growth time reduced.
Mass
Adult Mass reduced.
Max Health
Starting Health reduced.
Max Health reduced.
Blood Pool
Starting Blood Pool reduced.
Max Blood Pool reduced.
Corpse food value
Corpse food value reduced.
AttackPower
Starting AttackPower reduced.
Movement speeds
Sprint speed reduced.
Stamina decay rates
Sprinting decay rate increased.
Primary Attack: Bite
Damage reduced.
Alternate Primary Attack: 360 Bite
Damage reduced.
Large Pounce
Initial Damage reduced.
Initial Stamina reduced.
Damage per tick reduced.
Stamina per tick increased.
Small Pounce
Initial Damage reduced.
Initial Stamina reduced.
Damage per tick reduced.
Stamina per tick increased.
0.5s delay for targets to attack back after releasing the pin.
-----
Because you have to admit, at a light glance this does not look great lol.
My child, I and many others have asked this same question every day for the past year, since Evrima first launched. Scientists around the world are still searching for answers as to why this wasn't done from the very beginning, but they are just as baffled as we are.
Neither of them were where they were supposed to be. They were intentionally gimped to fit into the "smalls" roster. Hence why a Stegosaurus, weighing 6000kg, was only worth 4 times as much as a 500 kg (now 450) Utahraptor. That's an animal weighing the equivalent of 12 raptors having as much health as 4 of them.
Furthermore, Utahraptor recieved a few buffs in compensation. Bleed was upped and its new dismount lands it farther away with less delay time than before. This is done so that it is actually required to use its mechanic to kill, without punishing it so harshly.
Since I sense that some are wondering why Pounce damage was lowered if it's intended to kill, I will go ahead and explain that anyway.
As I just mentioned, the bleed was raised. This is because Pounce is meant to be a killing tool by attrition, a way to (relatively) safely apply bleed and disengage, then continue cycling members of the pack to keep that bleed going until the target dies of blood loss.
Utahraptor was nerfed and buffed in those respective areas so that it can do what it was always intended to do. It was never meant to be as strong as it was and it was never meant to kill by raw damage.
Due to stegos low health modifiers, and utahs/dryos high ones, a young stego sitting at 500kg had less health than a 120kg dryo. And only 1/3 of the health of a matching weight utah.
Thank you for this
Just because I'm fighting something larger than me doesn't mean I should have to bite it 50+ times to kill it. It's still a PvP game and arguably everything should be viable given the player has enough skill.... making the game more stat-heavy does not help at all. It's just going to turn out like legacy where everyone plays apexes because they literally can't die from half the roster that is under a certain weight compared to them.
I don't give a ♥♥♥♥ if stego weighs 12x it doesn't need 12x the health, that's INSANITY in game balance. Even Overwatch had complaints of the large disparity between character healths like tracer vs various tanks but 12x health is on a whole different level of ridiculousness. And to think that Stego isn't even the largest dinosaur planned to be added yet.
And don't even get me started on the juvenile balance because while some stats might have been weird, like how strong juvie stegos are, just because you are a juvenile or sub-adult does not mean you should just be completely un-viable in combat. Again, make it based on the skill of the player or balance juvies / adults along a different scale; Make juveniles more agile with better turn radius and acceleration / deceleration and make adults have higher health and damage, and scale them over time. Don't just make juvies worse versions of adults, no one wants to play the game if you can't do anything fun (PvP) during the first hours of growth time.
PVP is but one element of the game, which is being built around animals to create an ecosystem. Being viable doesn't equate to being equal to everything else. That's not what viability means.
Stego matching its weight in HP really isn't insane. It's right where it's meant to be.
Utahraptor was never meant to solo a Carnotaurus, never meant to be even ground. I could do it half asleep and while occasionally stealing a glance at my phone to check some memes. Not really skillful.
If you seriously think that anything prior involved much skill, then I am recommending you find another game, because if you thought fighting as a Utahraptor prior this patch was difficult, then something like Fall Guys or Among Us might be your speed. Meanwhile, people who like having some semblance of challenge and the actual "skill" to meet it can stay right here.
Play the animal the way you're meant to and you won't have an issue. Nothing else to say if you can't see that. Sensible players know this. QA knows it. Devs know it. End of story.
Obviously larger things have higher health, I never said they shouldn't. However, the disparity in stats is the problem. Do you not see the issue with making something have 12x more health than something else?
Yes, while it's a survival game the main appeal is PvP. When I mean viable I mean competitively viable, in situations that involve actual player or dinosaur interaction. No one cares if your dinosaur is the best at surviving if it statistically crumbles around any other playable as an extreme example. This is why skill-based balance and match-ups exist. You can make something weaker without making it unviable, but my entire point is also that this only works to a certain extent. Just tying the health to weight and calling it a day is lazy and damaging because it causes such huge disparities in stats that lead to skill mattering less and less, and destroying the balance of competitive viability. For example: If we had the weight system of Legacy in Evrima skill wouldn't even matter at all; smaller creatures literally just wouldn't do any damage to things one scale larger than them so what's the point?
And no, I disagree about Stego being "right where it's meant to be", not necessarily because of it's health but just as a whole. But that's an whole different topic entirely.
Also, nice insults. The game since Evrima HAS taken more skill. Watch any player who knows what he is doing vs one who does not. The new mechanics and abilities and movement systems themselves give the game a good enough skill ceiling. Baiting attacks, managing stamina, etc. are core tenets of Evrima's PvP and those ARE skills to learn whether you like it or not. Bloating dinosaur stats, in the long run especially when more and larger dinosaurs are added, does not make the game a "challenge" in a good way. It's not challenging if something takes 50+ bites to kill, that's just annoying. If you want real challenge then you need to raise the skill ceiling, not just make things bullet sponges or one-shotting machines in comparison to the majority of the roster.
Finally: What does on mean by play it the way you are meant to? This is somewhat a rhetorical question because I know what you mean in terms of the "survival niche" of x dinosaur, but let's take a look at Utah shall we? An emphasis of the patch, and from the devs as a whole, is that Utah is "meant to" be played by using the pounce. Okay, that's fine, but just because it's "meant to" pounce and try to bleed things out and kill through attrition that doesn't mean it's normal bite should be useless in comparison. This is basically what's happening to some extent with Utah this patch, especially against larger enemies like Stego that have proportionally much higher health than is even viable to use the bite on. And don't tell me you shouldn't be attacking a Stego as a Utahraptor because that is just an excuse for lazy balance. For maintaining your diet with the diet system I could understand the point of not hunting a Stego, but why shouldn't I be able to PvP one just for the sake of it if me and a few friends are good enough players? If the Stego dies it's their fault for not being good enough.