A honest reflection on the state of the Isle. Why Deino and Stego should be removed (for now)

[Rayzuke]

So have picked up Isle again after the update. Played it a bit and gave it some thought on how things are standing at a gameplay perspective. Now be warned this is a PERSONAL opinion and may vary from your own views. Readers disgression is advised.

A lot of people have negative opinions about this game and honestly I am one of them. However upon trying to look upon as Objectivly as possible besides the lack of updates and what is going on with the Devs I have to say: Right NOW the game is at it healthiest state of gameplay and balance then it has ever been. The Sound design has improved notably since the days of Legacy. The Combat mechanics are the much needed improvement that was always needed. And different Diets and AI currently are SOMEWHAT able to cause players to roam around the Map and not always gather at the same spot. While they are still need for improvement there the potential is there.

However as you have read the title there are 2 Dinosaurs that currently don't fit in. The only playable Apexes at the moment: Stegosaurus and Deinosuchus. I think that for now it would be honestly the best if these two powerhouses are removed from the cast of playable survival dinos for the following reasons.

Stego:
Right now Stego is strongest dinosaur on Land by far. With its Tail is can cover nearly every angle from where it might be attacked from. Problem is that it is FAR to strong. There is nothing that can pose any threat to Stegosaurus with the exception of very large coordinated groups of Omniraptors or Troodons and the Occassional Deino when they get to careless around Water. This immense strengh leads to the actual gameplay of the Stego to be very VERY boring. Stego players go out of their way to cause as much carnage as possible and activly chase down anything that moves. They chase Carnos away from their kills. Camp out Rivers in order to kill Deinos. Run down any Juvenile that is to slow in the early stage. And overall a lot of Psychotic behavior.

Everything and everyone is forced to play around the whims of Stego players and there is nothing that comes even close to keeping them in check. It is why so many people are calling for more Apexes simply to put a end to reign of Terror these Herbivores are causing. What makes it worse is that from a Apex perspective Stegos are objectivly Overpowered. Their Tail swing attack will remain as one of the deadliest attacks in the entire game with damage that is unapproachable by anything that is not a Sauropod. Problem with the Tail however is... its a Tail... and a Tail is at back of the Dino.

Translated it means Stegos will activly only expose their flank that takes less damage then the rest of their body. All predators will mainly hunt using head AKA the most vurnable part of the body. Do the math and you begin to see that even WHEN they add other Apexes to the game they will all face the same problem current Deino players are facing. It is impossible to get around to the front with the speed of your dinosaur and you only do chip damage against something that kills you in 5 hits and probably 3 considering that Deino will remain one of the most Tanky Apexes in the game.

The Devs could add good old Tyrannosaurus and it too would be forced to flee from Stego simply due to the advantages Stego has with the current combat mechanics. Without a Gimmick that can knock stego down and stun it, makes Stego a immortal Juggernaut that no one could even dream of killing on their own. Stego as it stands is currently TOO strong. And while some people will point out that every Dino is able to run away from the Stego and has to pick a fight THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM. The Problem is that there is nothing that can potentially naturally cull the population of present Stegos. Hence why it becomes so boring to play a Stego.

However there is one candidate that is perfect for reducing the population of Stegos. It will however require a minor rework on the Stego itself. Mainly its hitzones. The Head of a Stego should be a massive weakpoint that Stegos have to protect at all cost from even getting hit once. That would allow ambushes of Apexes to kill and overwhelm Stegos even with all the advantages they have with the current combat system. And for that there is no better candidate then DEINOSUCHUS. The Big water croc that rules the Rivers with a Iron...Snout?

Realisticly Deino should absolutly be able to kill Stego and would probably make them the number 1 enemy to their current population. However because Stegos have enough health to tank a few hits to the head and can react it completly reverses the roles and Deino's have to hide away from Stego's. And worst of all. THAT IS A GOOD THING

because...

Problems with Deinosuchus:
DEINO TAKES EVERY PROBLEM STEGO CAUSES TO THE ECOSYSTEM AND CRANKS IT UP TO 11. Yes Deino's are closely bound to Rivers and can't venture to far. However the only thing that keeps Deino's in check besides each other are Stego's. Without Stego's Deino would become new undisputed ruler of land. They are free to walk anywhere they please and eat any and all carcasses that they please. They would steal kills from every carnivore that is around and NOTHING is going to stop them. Remember how Stego is nearly unkillable except by big coordinated groups of players? Deino is just unkillable. It has WAY to much bulk for any of the current Mesopredator to take it on. It can literally do nothing and just go for eating another dinos kill and it still comes out on top. Worse still is that its Bite is more precise and defensive then Stego's tail.

And to top it all off it can always just retreat into the Water if threatend. However luckily there is a ray of hope here. Deino's are only bulky enough to deal with Mesopredators. So when eventually other Apexes get added into the game they will keep deino's in check from dominating the land just as Stego is doing now. However sadly that still leaves no way to control the Deino population besides them cannibalising each other. So the biggest hope in this case would be the Turf wars that will ensue between Spinosaurus and Deinosuchus which should be a pretty close matchup.


So I hope I painted a proper picture on how much the Apexes dominate everything but what would be if they were gone? Well we would have a healty Ecosystem where all the current top Herbivore and Carnivore Players keep each other in check. Teno's can fend off any and all predators and are quite deadly but can still also be very reasonably brought down. Troodons hunt literally everything but can be easily picked off by Omni-raptor's, Pachy's and Galli's. Omni-raptors get picked off by the Pachy's, Carnotaurus and Cerato. Carno and Cerato kill each other and basically by this point you should get the picture than everything is able to keep each other at bay. Some match ups are pretty even others are more onesided.

Believe the Devs should slowly build up from this chain and slowly add bigger Mesopredators like Allo and Sucho but also other herbivores like Dibble, Diablo, Maia and Para. They can also expirement with other bigger flyers like ornithocheirus that could pick off smaller predators. That way they can slowly build their way back up to the Apexes were they have much more healthy competition. Lots of Mesopredators that will stop them from reaching adulthood. Deinosuchus and Spino should probably be added together so they can keep each other in check. And most importanly it will shine a very important light on less played dinosaurs up to this point that will point out any and all flaws the current mechanics may have. For instance I have no Idea what I am supose to do with Dryo's dodge at the moment. It used to be way to good now its just...meh.

However I do believe there is a 3rd Dinosaur that deserves to be removes from the current roster of Dino's. Hypsilophodon. These small bugger currently spawn as full adults and frankly serve no real purpose. They have a defensive spit attack that can blind enemys in order for them to escape but frankly... its very much useless. Hypsi normally team up with bigger herbivores that can defend them and actually do damage. However in the herd Hypsi is expected to hold its own and serve as a deterrent. Problem is that currently all Predators except Cerato have a very easy time with Hypsi and can pick it off with ease. Meanwhile Hypsi struggles with all the current threats as they are too small or nimble to activly be stoped by its spit attack.

Its not that Hypsi causes problems its more that its redundant. It would be best to keep it removed for now and eventually add it back in when the game expands into having more Apex Predators. That will be Hypsi time to shine and will make it a valuable addition to the herd as it can serve as a deterent to all Apex Predators and gives smaller non apex herbivores a chance to fight back or get away when they have been ambushed.


You now have reached the end of my TED Talk. Tnank you for reading my humble opinion. Share you own view if you want... or don't. Look up "My last six Brain Cells - Spelling" and you will know how many journey has been writing this as my steam setting are not set on english so I am very paranoid about the Grammar. Or instead check out signs that you might be a NPC... that is also a option... the choice is yours.

[Gloofin]

very well put together. though i find Stego to be a much bigger problem than Deino because Deino is... a little redundant with glitched / shallow spots, being quite the pinata while carrying a body / eating, even more so when it runs out of stamina and as you mentioned being very locked to the rivers. gateway will make it even harder for them to find people. Deino is needed for making water a "scary" experience but really the only thing i fear is wasting hours of my time to poor balancing. would not mind this guy removed.

Stegos however are practically gods in the current roster, and an immortal violent blood-thirsty playable is not a fun experience for anyone. they are able to take way more hits than they should, there's no consequence to body guarding [even ceratos rarely get them away] and they're able to go anywhere a Deino can but more and for longer.
i don't really see the point in removing Hypsi though, they're fun to hunt when you rarely see them and are occasionally fun to play. even if it's redundant, it's still better than Dryo.

they said they are removing stegos from officials eventually, which is great for official players but i can't touch those servers anyway with the exploiters. i don't think many unofficials will dare disable them either. i would ultimately wish for them to just balance the damn creatures cause it's not that hard ( why does stego need to be able to tank so many hits to the head? ) but it's the isle developers, so that's never happening.

[Rayzuke]

Originally posted by Glutton:

very well put together. though i find Stego to be a much bigger problem than Deino because Deino is... a little redundant with glitched / shallow spots, being quite the pinata while carrying a body / eating, even more so when it runs out of stamina and as you mentioned being very locked to the rivers. gateway will make it even harder for them to find people. Deino is needed for making water a "scary" experience but really the only thing i fear is wasting hours of my time to poor balancing. would not mind this guy removed.

Stegos however are practically gods in the current roster, and an immortal violent blood-thirsty playable is not a fun experience for anyone. they are able to take way more hits than they should, there's no consequence to body guarding [even ceratos rarely get them away] and they're able to go anywhere a Deino can but more and for longer.
i don't really see the point in removing Hypsi though, they're fun to hunt when you rarely see them and are occasionally fun to play. even if it's redundant, it's still better than Dryo.

they said they are removing stegos from officials eventually, which is great for official players but i can't touch those servers anyway with the exploiters. i don't think many unofficials will dare disable them either. i would ultimately wish for them to just balance the damn creatures cause it's not that hard ( why does stego need to be able to tank so many hits to the head? ) but it's the isle developers, so that's never happening.

To clarify a point I have made. Yes Stego's are the bigger problem but if they just remove stego then Deino will just fill the same niche stego did before except worse because they can just flatout eat the bodys. Deino only is the lesser Evil because Stego keeps them in check.

[justipudi]

Nice points Overall.
I hope the Servers wouldn't be flooded even more with Ceras when you remove Deino and Stego...
But to have All the players playing Deino and Stego be available for other species sounds nice 😁

[Bleep]

why even complain about this, its a build in progress more ♥♥♥♥ will come along and you wrote all of this for nothing lmao

[Rayzuke]

Originally posted by Bleep:

why even complain about this, its a build in progress more ♥♥♥♥ will come along and you wrote all of this for nothing lmao

I did write all of this probably for nothing either way. However this is a build in progress for 3 years now if we are looking only at the Evirma branch and 7 years when we look at the very unpolished sandbox that is legacy version. So frankly don't rely on new things to come along all that soon because that can take another 1-2 years if you are unlucky since the Dev team is kinda in over their heads and even then it could make things worse or not solve any problems at all.

However removing Stego and Deino NOW is something that is very possible. That is what currently would have the most positive effect on the game. Both with the ecosystem as well as finding potential flaws with less played dinosaurs.

[Winterwolf]

Originally posted by Rayzuke:

So have picked up Isle again after the update. Played it a bit and gave it some thought on how things are standing at a gameplay perspective. Now be warned this is a PERSONAL opinion and may vary from your own views. Readers disgression is advised.

A lot of people have negative opinions about this game and honestly I am one of them. However upon trying to look upon as Objectivly as possible besides the lack of updates and what is going on with the Devs I have to say: Right NOW the game is at it healthiest state of gameplay and balance then it has ever been. The Sound design has improved notably since the days of Legacy. The Combat mechanics are the much needed improvement that was always needed. And different Diets and AI currently are SOMEWHAT able to cause players to roam around the Map and not always gather at the same spot. While they are still need for improvement there the potential is there.

However as you have read the title there are 2 Dinosaurs that currently don't fit in. The only playable Apexes at the moment: Stegosaurus and Deinosuchus. I think that for now it would be honestly the best if these two powerhouses are removed from the cast of playable survival dinos for the following reasons.

Stego:
Right now Stego is strongest dinosaur on Land by far. With its Tail is can cover nearly every angle from where it might be attacked from. Problem is that it is FAR to strong. There is nothing that can pose any threat to Stegosaurus with the exception of very large coordinated groups of Omniraptors or Troodons and the Occassional Deino when they get to careless around Water. This immense strengh leads to the actual gameplay of the Stego to be very VERY boring. Stego players go out of their way to cause as much carnage as possible and activly chase down anything that moves. They chase Carnos away from their kills. Camp out Rivers in order to kill Deinos. Run down any Juvenile that is to slow in the early stage. And overall a lot of Psychotic behavior.

Everything and everyone is forced to play around the whims of Stego players and there is nothing that comes even close to keeping them in check. It is why so many people are calling for more Apexes simply to put a end to reign of Terror these Herbivores are causing. What makes it worse is that from a Apex perspective Stegos are objectivly Overpowered. Their Tail swing attack will remain as one of the deadliest attacks in the entire game with damage that is unapproachable by anything that is not a Sauropod. Problem with the Tail however is... its a Tail... and a Tail is at back of the Dino.

Translated it means Stegos will activly only expose their flank that takes less damage then the rest of their body. All predators will mainly hunt using head AKA the most vurnable part of the body. Do the math and you begin to see that even WHEN they add other Apexes to the game they will all face the same problem current Deino players are facing. It is impossible to get around to the front with the speed of your dinosaur and you only do chip damage against something that kills you in 5 hits and probably 3 considering that Deino will remain one of the most Tanky Apexes in the game.

The Devs could add good old Tyrannosaurus and it too would be forced to flee from Stego simply due to the advantages Stego has with the current combat mechanics. Without a Gimmick that can knock stego down and stun it, makes Stego a immortal Juggernaut that no one could even dream of killing on their own. Stego as it stands is currently TOO strong. And while some people will point out that every Dino is able to run away from the Stego and has to pick a fight THAT IS NOT THE PROBLEM. The Problem is that there is nothing that can potentially naturally cull the population of present Stegos. Hence why it becomes so boring to play a Stego.

However there is one candidate that is perfect for reducing the population of Stegos. It will however require a minor rework on the Stego itself. Mainly its hitzones. The Head of a Stego should be a massive weakpoint that Stegos have to protect at all cost from even getting hit once. That would allow ambushes of Apexes to kill and overwhelm Stegos even with all the advantages they have with the current combat system. And for that there is no better candidate then DEINOSUCHUS. The Big water croc that rules the Rivers with a Iron...Snout?

Realisticly Deino should absolutly be able to kill Stego and would probably make them the number 1 enemy to their current population. However because Stegos have enough health to tank a few hits to the head and can react it completly reverses the roles and Deino's have to hide away from Stego's. And worst of all. THAT IS A GOOD THING

because...

Problems with Deinosuchus:
DEINO TAKES EVERY PROBLEM STEGO CAUSES TO THE ECOSYSTEM AND CRANKS IT UP TO 11. Yes Deino's are closely bound to Rivers and can't venture to far. However the only thing that keeps Deino's in check besides each other are Stego's. Without Stego's Deino would become new undisputed ruler of land. They are free to walk anywhere they please and eat any and all carcasses that they please. They would steal kills from every carnivore that is around and NOTHING is going to stop them. Remember how Stego is nearly unkillable except by big coordinated groups of players? Deino is just unkillable. It has WAY to much bulk for any of the current Mesopredator to take it on. It can literally do nothing and just go for eating another dinos kill and it still comes out on top. Worse still is that its Bite is more precise and defensive then Stego's tail.

And to top it all off it can always just retreat into the Water if threatend. However luckily there is a ray of hope here. Deino's are only bulky enough to deal with Mesopredators. So when eventually other Apexes get added into the game they will keep deino's in check from dominating the land just as Stego is doing now. However sadly that still leaves no way to control the Deino population besides them cannibalising each other. So the biggest hope in this case would be the Turf wars that will ensue between Spinosaurus and Deinosuchus which should be a pretty close matchup.


So I hope I painted a proper picture on how much the Apexes dominate everything but what would be if they were gone? Well we would have a healty Ecosystem where all the current top Herbivore and Carnivore Players keep each other in check. Teno's can fend off any and all predators and are quite deadly but can still also be very reasonably brought down. Troodons hunt literally everything but can be easily picked off by Omni-raptor's, Pachy's and Galli's. Omni-raptors get picked off by the Pachy's, Carnotaurus and Cerato. Carno and Cerato kill each other and basically by this point you should get the picture than everything is able to keep each other at bay. Some match ups are pretty even others are more onesided.

Believe the Devs should slowly build up from this chain and slowly add bigger Mesopredators like Allo and Sucho but also other herbivores like Dibble, Diablo, Maia and Para. They can also expirement with other bigger flyers like ornithocheirus that could pick off smaller predators. That way they can slowly build their way back up to the Apexes were they have much more healthy competition. Lots of Mesopredators that will stop them from reaching adulthood. Deinosuchus and Spino should probably be added together so they can keep each other in check. And most importanly it will shine a very important light on less played dinosaurs up to this point that will point out any and all flaws the current mechanics may have. For instance I have no Idea what I am supose to do with Dryo's dodge at the moment. It used to be way to good now its just...meh.

However I do believe there is a 3rd Dinosaur that deserves to be removes from the current roster of Dino's. Hypsilophodon. These small bugger currently spawn as full adults and frankly serve no real purpose. They have a defensive spit attack that can blind enemys in order for them to escape but frankly... its very much useless. Hypsi normally team up with bigger herbivores that can defend them and actually do damage. However in the herd Hypsi is expected to hold its own and serve as a deterrent. Problem is that currently all Predators except Cerato have a very easy time with Hypsi and can pick it off with ease. Meanwhile Hypsi struggles with all the current threats as they are too small or nimble to activly be stoped by its spit attack.

Its not that Hypsi causes problems its more that its redundant. It would be best to keep it removed for now and eventually add it back in when the game expands into having more Apex Predators. That will be Hypsi time to shine and will make it a valuable addition to the herd as it can serve as a deterent to all Apex Predators and gives smaller non apex herbivores a chance to fight back or get away when they have been ambushed.


You now have reached the end of my TED Talk. Tnank you for reading my humble opinion. Share you own view if you want... or don't. Look up "My last six Brain Cells - Spelling" and you will know how many journey has been writing this as my steam setting are not set on english so I am very paranoid about the Grammar. Or instead check out signs that you might be a NPC... that is also a option... the choice is yours.

I... ALMOST... wholeheartedly agree with what you've said.

I mean.. I don't really have issues with Stegos, and that's probably moreso because Deinos tend to be the bigger threat. I haven't really met any of these psychotic stego players, they've been pretty chill and tend to keep to their own, plus they serve as a deterrent to Deinos.

I have not met a single friendly Deino other than when I've played a Deino, and even then I got cannibalized by a bigger Deino a few moments afterward.

Deino's are the bigger threat because they can camp out, undetected, by the rivers, the only real water sources we as players can drink from. We don't really have many lakes/ponds/shallow water drinking areas to drink from. We HAVE to go to the rivers, and a Deino can traverse the rivers really really quickly, faster than the fastest running speed I believe, or at least it feels that way. We HAVE to drink, its more important than eating. As soon as you hit dehydration stage, you're basically dead within 10 seconds or so. You can go on for a while being hungry until you starve to death, but water... is absolutely necessary and it feels like Deinos camp every inch of every river.

What's even worse, I've seen Deino's be bigger psychopaths than Stegos. I've seen a riverbank littered with fresh corpses and yet the Deinos still grab and slaughter anything that comes near when they don't even need to.

I just don't see as many Stegos as I do Deinos. I'm A-Okay with removing Stegos temporarily, as long as Deinos get the boot too, at least until there are some predators that can balance it out.

[theelitemuff]

The only changes i think it needs is the stegos to not be so tanky and not quite 1 shot everything, and the crocs to not be able to see and hear above water when they are below, or at least see as clearly. I think that's the biggest flaw. i don't think removing either of them would be the best idea, i like them in there, just take away the op superpowers they have.

I also think the raptors are a bit under powered. even with a large pack its a stego that comes and saves the day from a carno..

Looking forward to the Human and T-Rex additions.

[Voyager]

I dont play this game anymore but I have over 2000h in legacy and I can tell you that this game has imbalance imprinted in its design. You can't have variety of animals with different sizes, health, damage etc. and balance it. Just forget it. If something is going to end Stego or Deino problem, then it's going to be the new problem.

It was like that in legacy and nothing has changed. I remember one of the final patches for legacy ( 3 years ago ? ) when they nerfed Giga ( which was top tier pick ), so Rex became the new Taiwan#1 that everyone hated.

They can't balance dinosaurs to the point where it's FAIR. It's impossible. The only thing they can do is to make smaller dinosaurs fun to play. Otherwise... yea, its PvP " pick top tier " battle arena ( reality ) disguised as beautiful and stunning open world dinosaur sim ( first impression ).

[DUI_Stryfe]

While I agree with the sentiment I think we are different pages as to the solution. Someone else mentioned it but whatever the APEX is will be the new problem.

I just want to mention first that Stego being boring and Deinos being cannibals is already a light solution but I get that longterm you'd want a better fix.

The root issue here isn't the Stego or Deino. Unfortunately everyone fixates on the biggest benefactor or the mechanics instead of the mechanics themselves. The issue is there's no downside to size. There's a downside to being small but the bigger you are the better at almost EVERYTHING.

To my point and TLDR here's what's needed:

1) All attacks should cost stamina. Alt attacks 2.5x cost. The base stamina cost should scale with the size of the animal.

That tail swing should hit like a truck. But 6-7 of those back to back in say 1 min should have a full grown Stego pretty gassed.

This really shouldn't be controversial since it's a legitimate hunting strategy used by tons of predators in real life.

2) larger animals should be easier to track by smell. You should be able to scent track a full grown stego pretty easily. Again this should be like... footstep site range and timer scaling with animal size.

3) bleeding scaling with size. You know how much blood would be left behind by something that size. I bloody stego running through a bush should look like an absolute murder scene.

You could nerf or remove stegos but then you'll have a Cerato or carno problem next. You do what I described and apex species will be balanced across the board.

If you wanna reduce Deinos stop spawning 100 fish all over the place and they'll eat each other honestly.

Deinos will be balanced with another water predator that can hunt them when their young.

[Rayzuke]

Originally posted by Voyager:

I dont play this game anymore but I have over 2000h in legacy and I can tell you that this game has imbalance imprinted in its design. You can't have variety of animals with different sizes, health, damage etc. and balance it. Just forget it. If something is going to end Stego or Deino problem, then it's going to be the new problem.

It was like that in legacy and nothing has changed. I remember one of the final patches for legacy ( 3 years ago ? ) when they nerfed Giga ( which was top tier pick ), so Rex became the new Taiwan#1 that everyone hated.

They can't balance dinosaurs to the point where it's FAIR. It's impossible. The only thing they can do is to make smaller dinosaurs fun to play. Otherwise... yea, its PvP " pick top tier " battle arena ( reality ) disguised as beautiful and stunning open world dinosaur sim ( first impression ).

Well Legacys "Combat" System was absolute ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and doomed to fail from the start. Evirma is quite different. With dinosaurs bringing their own unique hunting and defence mechanism there is a small rock paper scissors dynamic. Omni/Utah Raptors can bleed out a Carnotaurus but they can't really do that with a Cerato. Cerato however can be knocked down by the Carno and be dealt with in a couple of bites... or at least that is how it kinda has been before the last balance patch and they nerfed Carno and buffed Cera...AGAIN. Still not entirly impossible so my point still stands. Perfect Balance will always be impossible but with the current version were it not for Stego and Deino the isle is closer to its most balanced state than it has ever been in its life.

[Rayzuke]

Originally posted by DUI_Stryfe:

While I agree with the sentiment I think we are different pages as to the solution. Someone else mentioned it but whatever the APEX is will be the new problem.

I just want to mention first that Stego being boring and Deinos being cannibals is already a light solution but I get that longterm you'd want a better fix.

The root issue here isn't the Stego or Deino. Unfortunately everyone fixates on the biggest benefactor or the mechanics instead of the mechanics themselves. The issue is there's no downside to size. There's a downside to being small but the bigger you are the better at almost EVERYTHING.

To my point and TLDR here's what's needed:

1) All attacks should cost stamina. Alt attacks 2.5x cost. The base stamina cost should scale with the size of the animal.

That tail swing should hit like a truck. But 6-7 of those back to back in say 1 min should have a full grown Stego pretty gassed.

This really shouldn't be controversial since it's a legitimate hunting strategy used by tons of predators in real life.

2) larger animals should be easier to track by smell. You should be able to scent track a full grown stego pretty easily. Again this should be like... footstep site range and timer scaling with animal size.

3) bleeding scaling with size. You know how much blood would be left behind by something that size. I bloody stego running through a bush should look like an absolute murder scene.

You could nerf or remove stegos but then you'll have a Cerato or carno problem next. You do what I described and apex species will be balanced across the board.

If you wanna reduce Deinos stop spawning 100 fish all over the place and they'll eat each other honestly.

Deinos will be balanced with another water predator that can hunt them when their young.

We are in fact not on different pages but simply on different steps. It can be debated if your solution would work or not but what I am talking about is what can be done NOW. Your theory is pretty sound but it is going to take a lot of time to finetune it for it to have the desired effect. This game is currently in its Alpha Stage (as it will probably remain forever) but rather than trying to bruteforce mechanics and balance changes that will be in the full game the focus is trying to make Alpha version into a passable balanced version and build it up from there.

Lets take the game subnautica. It also had quite neat Alpha and Beta versions. However imagine they added things like the Escape Rocket or the Sea Emperor in the early Beta versions. They would serve no purpose and would simply not blend in with the rest of the established progression of the game as it skips several stages of exploration. That is currently the state with the Apexes. Even IF you make them work there are still things missing in between. They are the last pages to a book that is missing its middle section.

And that is the state of the isle. The mechanics, features, fauna, and hazards that would balance out apexes are simply not there yet and they won't be there for quite some time (forever). That is the point I am making

[Nex]

Originally posted by Bleep:

why even complain about this, its a build in progress more ♥♥♥♥ will come along and you wrote all of this for nothing lmao

This game will never be finished. You are making yourself look kinda silly with this argument

[DuneLoon]

uhh

who gon tell him

[Rayzuke]

Originally posted by DuneLoon:

uhh

who gon tell him

how bout you gonna tell me

[Deludo]

Completely Disagree with the Stego take. Its the slowest dinosaur in the game and if it wasnt strong it would be completely unplayable.

Yes they can grief corpses but thats about it, they can't catch you and they can't follow you if you want to leave. Any engagement with a stego is done completely on your terms and the stego gets no say in the matter. 9/10 times if you died to a stego its because "you" tried to attack it or "you" got too close.