I don't like the glass "cannon" direction they took Cerato in.

[Endgunner]

Been watching a lot of Youtube and it seems like 1 Carno can kill 1 Cerato like nothing. It seems to me you need 2 Ceras to even stand a chance. And even then the Carno has the advantage.

Carno also is 1,800 kg from its old 2.170 kg, while Cerato has been lowered to a measly 1,300 kg from 2.250 kg. Carno is also quite a bit faster. The only advantage Cerato has is turn but Carno can just Alt bite and face tank. Cerato also has a lower bite force, and Charge bites seems to only do as much damage as if a Carno bit the Carno + the debuff.

This is sad to me, Cerato was the Pitt Bull of legacy. Going toe to toe with anything near its size if you knew what you were doing. And the Dino I played 90% of my 500 or so hours on Legacy. Now it seems to have turned into a Bull Dog. I shudder to think of Cerato Vs Allo in future.

Legacy Cerato taken from Wiki:
Weight
( Juvenile ) .. . . 150 - 1900 kg
( Adult ) .. . . . . 1900 - 2.250 kg
Damage
( per Bite / Hit )
x * (Cera weight / Target weight)
( Juvie: ) . . . 60 - 140
( Adult: ) . . 225 - 350

Legacy Carno taken from Wiki:
Weight
( Juvenile ) .. . . 150 - 850 kg
( Adult ) .. . . . . 880 - 2.170 kg
Damage
( per Bite / Hit )
x* (Carno weight /Target weight)
( Juvenile: ) . . 50 - 75
( Adult: ) . . 75 - 200

EVRIMA Cerato:
Weight
100% adult: 1,300 kg
Damage
100% adult: 150N

EVRIMA Carno:
Weight
100% adult: 1,800 kg
Damage
100% adult: 155N

[Cheese Sauce]

Very weird considering they were saying that Cerato would be "tanky". And would EASILY be able to take a carno 1v1. Idk if you're trolling, but tbh I haven't played the stress test, waiting until next year for 6.5 to actually be out.

[Endgunner]

Originally posted by Cheese Sauce:

Very weird considering they were saying that Cerato would be "tanky". And would EASILY be able to take a carno 1v1. Idk if you're trolling, but tbh I haven't played the stress test, waiting until next year for 6.5 to actually be out.

I'm not trolling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_m00zpLxjI
This was 3 Carnos Vs 4 Ceratos. It goes pretty evenly but the Carnos play very bad and keep letting themselves get swarmed. Yet the Carnos still win.
Fight starts around 3:14.

[Forcedge]

Ceratos lost because they were ambushed. Carno charge attack is OP too

[Rhibirr]

Originally posted by Endgunner:

Originally posted by Cheese Sauce:

Very weird considering they were saying that Cerato would be "tanky". And would EASILY be able to take a carno 1v1. Idk if you're trolling, but tbh I haven't played the stress test, waiting until next year for 6.5 to actually be out.

I'm not trolling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_m00zpLxjI
This was 3 Carnos Vs 4 Ceratos. It goes pretty evenly but the Carnos play very bad and keep letting themselves get swarmed. Yet the Carnos still win.
Fight starts around 3:14.

Hahahaha! Did you see that one guy who's organs exploded through his body? That must've been them not spawning the right size when the ragdoll was initiated.

[Endgunner]

Originally posted by Forcedge:

Ceratos lost because they were ambushed. Carno charge attack is OP too

Ceratos would not have stood a chance even if it was not an ambush. 2 Ceratos were biting one Carno and they both got in 4 bites. And the Carno was able to run, loop around, and fight more. I mean, 2 of the 3 Carnos were outright playing bad. And they still won.

I heard somebody in a video say Cerato has 1,600 HP, well Carno has 2,000. This is not how it should be IMO.

[RTKBlade]

Originally posted by Endgunner:

Originally posted by Forcedge:

Ceratos lost because they were ambushed. Carno charge attack is OP too

Ceratos would not have stood a chance even if it was not an ambush. 2 Ceratos were biting one Carno and they both got in 4 bites. And the Carno was able to run, loop around, and fight more. I mean, 2 of the 3 Carnos were outright playing bad. And they still won.

I heard somebody in a video say Cerato has 1,600 HP, well Carno has 2,000. This is not how it should be IMO.

well i think the heath gap shouldnt be this large but carno should have more, plus cerato already has heavy bleed and venom resistance so having above 2k hp would be a little to strong

[Endgunner]

Originally posted by RTK:

Originally posted by Endgunner:

Ceratos would not have stood a chance even if it was not an ambush. 2 Ceratos were biting one Carno and they both got in 4 bites. And the Carno was able to run, loop around, and fight more. I mean, 2 of the 3 Carnos were outright playing bad. And they still won.

I heard somebody in a video say Cerato has 1,600 HP, well Carno has 2,000. This is not how it should be IMO.

well i think the heath gap shouldnt be this large but carno should have more, plus cerato already has heavy bleed and venom resistance so having above 2k hp would be a little to strong

Your forgetting that size/hp ties directly to damage. Bigger dinos take less from smaller, and smaller take more from bigger. This means that Carno is doing roughly 20% more damage and taking roughly 20% less damage from Cerato just via size difference. Then, Cerato is also too short to bite Carno's head reliably. And it gets worse. Cerato has a bite force of 150N, and Carno's is 155N. While small this is inflated by the difference in weight.

But it top it all off, Carno is a whole 15KM/h FASTER then Cerato.

[Endgunner]

To write 1800/1300 as a decimal you have to divide numerator by the denominator of the fraction.
We divide now 1800 by 1300 what we write down as 1800/1300 and we get 1.3846153846154. Just googled the math. So Its around a 30% difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvRYzWmr2oU

This video shows how to do the calculations.

[Forcedge]

Originally posted by Endgunner:

Originally posted by Forcedge:

Ceratos lost because they were ambushed. Carno charge attack is OP too

Ceratos would not have stood a chance even if it was not an ambush. 2 Ceratos were biting one Carno and they both got in 4 bites. And the Carno was able to run, loop around, and fight more. I mean, 2 of the 3 Carnos were outright playing bad. And they still won.

I heard somebody in a video say Cerato has 1,600 HP, well Carno has 2,000. This is not how it should be IMO.

They absolutely would have stood a chance, and perhaps won the fight, if they were the ones ambushing. But instead they were walking around in an open field like idiots.

Ambushing allows you to get 2 or 3 bites in before the target even knows what's happening. In this case, it wasn't just bites, but a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ carno charge which is already known to be OP

[Endgunner]

Originally posted by Forcedge:

Originally posted by Endgunner:

Ceratos would not have stood a chance even if it was not an ambush. 2 Ceratos were biting one Carno and they both got in 4 bites. And the Carno was able to run, loop around, and fight more. I mean, 2 of the 3 Carnos were outright playing bad. And they still won.

I heard somebody in a video say Cerato has 1,600 HP, well Carno has 2,000. This is not how it should be IMO.

They absolutely would have stood a chance, and perhaps won the fight, if they were the ones ambushing. But instead they were walking around in an open field like idiots.

Ambushing allows you to get 2 or 3 bites in before the target even knows what's happening. In this case, it wasn't just bites, but a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ carno charge which is already known to be OP

The Carnos also coulda run away.

[ressenmacher]

I'm not an Evmira player, but this seems...ill considered. There should always be multiple reasonable outcomes of any species matchup determined most strongly by player skill.

If one species can't win the matchup, they should have the speed to prevent it. If they're both slower and weaker, they need to be smaller, quieter, and more maneuverable so that they can hide and avoid the engagement entirely (this is still not a good solution because it encourages slow, boring play and is inordinately determined by how good the hunter is, but at least it's SOMETHING).

Cerato is the same size and makes about the same amount of noise so it can't hide or lose the carno. It's vastly slower so it can't escape the carno. And because of the weight difference it's way weaker so it can't fight the carno.

What is the intended interaction between these species? Because right now, it seems like the only result you get when they encounter one another in a hostile setting at parity is "carno eats cerato," which is lame.

[Khanivore]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

I'm not an Evmira player, but this seems...ill considered. There should always be multiple reasonable outcomes of any species matchup determined most strongly by player skill.

If one species can't win the matchup, they should have the speed to prevent it. If they're both slower and weaker, they need to be smaller, quieter, and more maneuverable so that they can hide and avoid the engagement entirely (this is still not a good solution because it encourages slow, boring play and is inordinately determined by how good the hunter is, but at least it's SOMETHING).

Cerato is the same size and makes about the same amount of noise so it can't hide or lose the carno. It's vastly slower so it can't escape the carno. And because of the weight difference it's way weaker so it can't fight the carno.

What is the intended interaction between these species? Because right now, it seems like the only result you get when they encounter one another in a hostile setting at parity is "carno eats cerato," which is lame.

Player skill plays a huge role, The Pachy is far smaller than a Carno, but by using it's special with skill it can hold it's own, Cerato is the same
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4Dx3G3epko&ab_channel=Kouga

[ressenmacher]

Originally posted by Khanivore:

Player skill plays a huge role.

I don't see anything that looks particularly useful? The bacteria are a minor debuff that only comes into play once the target has been bitten multiple times and is probably almost dead anyways, and the charged bite is...ok, I guess? A collision attack on a speed-built character with inbuilt stun in a positioning-based fighting system is of course going to be far superior.

That skill has some influence on the outcome doesn't mean something is balanced. Balanced means that at skill parity you would see a result parity - equally matched players should get equally good results against one another on average. Instead, if the players are equally matched the carno wins by a significant margin.

[Khanivore]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

Originally posted by Khanivore:

Player skill plays a huge role.

I don't see anything that looks particularly useful? The bacteria are a minor debuff that only comes into play once the target has been bitten multiple times and is probably almost dead anyways, and the charged bite is...ok, I guess? A collision attack on a speed-built character with inbuilt stun in a positioning-based fighting system is of course going to be far superior.

That skill has some influence on the outcome doesn't mean something is balanced. Balanced means that at skill parity you would see a result parity - equally matched players should get equally good results against one another on average. Instead, if the players are equally matched the carno wins by a significant margin.

This games isn't about parity (not COD), never was, its about survival, death is permanent

Choose your terrain (out in the open with a Carno is playing to it's strengths), be strategic, if a Carno is obviously hungry its stomach will be low, much easier to vomit lock it for the kill, if not sure keep your distance preferably near trees and bushes, other strategies could also exist, work them out, after all that is part of the fun with this game

Also not saying balancing wont happen with the many updates the stress test is getting, but player skill is a big part of this game

[Endgunner]

Originally posted by ressenmacher:

Originally posted by Khanivore:

Player skill plays a huge role.

I don't see anything that looks particularly useful? The bacteria are a minor debuff that only comes into play once the target has been bitten multiple times and is probably almost dead anyways, and the charged bite is...ok, I guess? A collision attack on a speed-built character with inbuilt stun in a positioning-based fighting system is of course going to be far superior.

That skill has some influence on the outcome doesn't mean something is balanced. Balanced means that at skill parity you would see a result parity - equally matched players should get equally good results against one another on average. Instead, if the players are equally matched the carno wins by a significant margin.

As a matter of fact, you can not bite again for 3 seconds after using the charge bite. At least thats what was just shown via a video.