Carnivore diets should be removed.

[Gloofin]

I honestly can't think of a reasonable way to just rework it that functions better than it not existing at all. not starving to death should be the benefit of getting any kill, not this death-match promoting kill everything you see to pluck the singular organ you need (an annoying process by itself) just to have the best buff.

here is every single negative i could think of for carnivore diets;
- you are punished for not being able to find a specific creature, something entirely out of your control
- having a bad diet makes it considerably harder to hunt, making it hard to get any diet at all, locking you in a state of hoping you get lucky with scavenging or outright dying in an attempt to get food.
- getting organs is obnoxious. it may be because i play with a lower mouse sensitivity, but thrashing is near impossible. trying to get the hitbox for biting bodies is headache inducing, on top of trying to find the specific organ you need.
- you have to ignore the vast majority of edible bodies just to save space for diet foods unless you want the absolutely horrible no diet debuffs.
- having a diet not count from 1% to 99% but 99% to 1% makes no sense whatsoever, meaning you could finally get that precious kill you need, fill your diet to 99%, and it does absolutely nothing forcing you have to either wait for it to go away or yet again kill anything you see despite that you likely have more food still!
- the priority in which diets are filled. it goes top to bottom regardless of your existing diets. you can have a 10% // slot that you desperately need filled but its located at the lowest hexagon. you have the ability to eat // diet, but it instead fills the empty top hexagon, likely not filling it enough to activate and leaving your already activated diet to fade out. this forces your hand to kill yet again despite having a likely near full stomach.
- diet combos are useless. every Utah goes for the stamina build, every Cerato the health build. there is one objectively superior diet combo for every carnivore as it plays into their strengths. seriously, who would get the health diet as Troodon? or anyone the incubation diet?
- makes nesting that much more impossible. carnivores cannot go grocery shopping like herbivores can. how do you expect parents to not only be spending most of their hunger on their children, but to have a good diet and keep themselves fed? while staying in a proximity close to the nest? how do you expect not only any creatures at all to be immediately huntable in the area, but to be something on the diet list?
- the diet lists themselves are bad. Here's some of my favorites;
- Carno not having Cerato despite being in direct competition with them and being very capable of killing one.
- Deinosuchus has Frog and Troodon, things that are near impossible to see or catch, and provide absolutely no food even if you do.
- Utah having Cerato, who is BLEED RESISTANT, and Deinosuchus, a creature that is very unlikely to be killed even as a fresh spawn because of their aquatic nature, and again, BLEED RESISTANCE, on top of being tanky and surprisingly hard hitting. Two bleed resistant creatures on a bleeders list, remarkable.
- Troodon not having part of the roster despite in theory (without pounce glitches) being very capable of killing them. Can do as good as possible against Stegos, Gallimimus are brittle, and Carnotaurus is very possible.
- Ceratosaurus having Beipi. While Cerato has slightly good swim speed, it is absolutely nothing good enough to hunt such an agile aquatic creature.
- Anything with dryo in on the list. They’re non-existent.
The list will only get worse as more AI and more playables are added.

diets work great for herbivores because they can pick and choose, including diet combos. it's impossible to starve to death with a combination of grazing and plants everywhere, including diet plants, and it just gives herbivores something to do. the thrill for carnivores is the hunt, not the organ harvesting. herbivores have all the time in the world to get exactly the diet they want, even the incubation diet!

omnivores would be unchanged, it's just the basic herbivore set-up with one plant per diet, with some extra AI.

and because killing everything is so easy, half health and stamina regeneration. hunting should be something carefully calculated and executed with every meal feeling like you really earned it. i swear people just face tank instead of being careful because they know the opponent will die first, not caring for how low they will get in consequence because health heals in what feels like 5 minutes. this is optional because it's a big scary change people likely don't want, but i think it'd help remove the death-match aspect, something the developers are trying to deviate from a far as i'm aware.

[justinelbon]

Agreed before diet there was less reason for killing and only eating a little then killing more…. Just remove diet lol

[Voyager]

What I always loved in legacy was simplistic gameplay where depth came from differences between every dinosaur and people playstyle. Not from enforced mechanics. So far, everything new introduced in evrima, like: diets, debuffs, overcomplicated nesting etc. It seems to me like a waste of developers time becouse the only thing that matters at the end is that game should be fun to play.

I would love if dinosaurs had more stats, clear indication of ammount of health, damage mitigations and other RPG stuff that add direct impact on the gameplay, instead all of those controversial mechanics.

To me, SCUM is clear example of game where devs went too far with annoyances for players and they forgot to make game more interesting - gameplay wise. Who cares about zombies being actual threat in a zombie apocalypse game right ? let's waste 5 years designing and expanding on elaborate medical conditions simulator for every player... that will be fun.

[Unleashed]

The diet is perfectly fine as it is. It forces you to move and interact with other players. It's a multiplayer game, not solo.

[Dimitris]

idk why so mad
its extremly easy to have all 3 diet slots filled at all times
just get better

[Mr. Nobody]

100% agree with OP the diet system makes no sense.

[Dimitris]

Origineel geplaatst door Jake:

100% agree with OP the diet system makes no sense.

how so? its very easy to fill and it can give you a small boost to your prefered playstyle

[Gloofin]

if you don't mind, how do carnivore diets force you to move and interact with other players any more than just hunger does?

and it may be easy to have all 3 diets if you are lucky, there have been times where i have never ran out of any of mine, and others where i can barely keep one active. that is one primary problems. player locations are random, species population is random, and what diet list you have is random. debuffing someone for, not even starving, but getting unlucky and not being able to find the very specific diet they need is bad.

going to hotspots is the most reliable option to hunt and scavenge diet food, but as of the recent update all of the areas are claimed by groups of mixpackers that you cannot do much against. attempt to hunt anything and get mauled by a stego, 3 ceratos, 2 tenontos and carnos.

it is also extremely difficult ( and pointless ) to get a diet for your preferred playstyle, finding any diet at all is challenging enough but being able to be picky enough to select specific combinations? both insanely unrealistic and impossible. even if you manage this, there is always one specific diet that benefits you the most. practically everyone goes for the stamina diet as it is the most powerful as of right now, anyway.

[Mr. Nobody]

Origineel geplaatst door Dimitris:

Origineel geplaatst door Jake:

100% agree with OP the diet system makes no sense.

how so? its very easy to fill and it can give you a small boost to your prefered playstyle

because as already stated carnos would eat whatever and whenever they got a chance they didn't give af about what the animal was. And why would you have to take out specific organs for certain proteins are you not consuming those very same organs when you consume the animal outright. The whole thing makes literally no sense. You have people straight up ignoring corpses because it's not what they want and searching HOURS for what they may need. Like i've put maybe 15 hours into this game now and have not seen a single deer or boar and i've been running all over the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ place.

[Dimitris]

Origineel geplaatst door Jake:

because as already stated carnos would eat whatever and whenever they got a chance they didn't give af about what the animal was. And why would you have to take out specific organs for certain proteins are you not consuming those very same organs when you consume the animal outright. The whole thing makes literally no sense. You have people straight up ignoring corpses because it's not what they want and searching HOURS for what they may need. Like i've put maybe 15 hours into this game now and have not seen a single deer or boar and i've been running all over the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ place.

animals in real life aswell have prefered pray and if you yourself go and eat something very different from what you usually eat youll get diarhea, the nutrients make sense and you can still eat other things for hunger.
Though eatting a full body should give all the ammount from the organs inside.

[justinelbon]

Origineel geplaatst door Dimitris:

Origineel geplaatst door Jake:

because as already stated carnos would eat whatever and whenever they got a chance they didn't give af about what the animal was. And why would you have to take out specific organs for certain proteins are you not consuming those very same organs when you consume the animal outright. The whole thing makes literally no sense. You have people straight up ignoring corpses because it's not what they want and searching HOURS for what they may need. Like i've put maybe 15 hours into this game now and have not seen a single deer or boar and i've been running all over the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ place.

animals in real life aswell have prefered pray and if you yourself go and eat something very different from what you usually eat youll get diarhea, the nutrients make sense and you can still eat other things for hunger.
Though eatting a full body should give all the ammount from the organs inside.

Yes... but carnivores are opportunistic and can eat pretty much anything. This is also a game where as in real life animals tend to stay in their bi-oms unlike games.....

[Zeus14]

Origineel geplaatst door Glutton:

I honestly can't think of a reasonable way to just rework it that functions better than it not existing at all. not starving to death should be the benefit of getting any kill, not this death-match promoting kill everything you see to pluck the singular organ you need (an annoying process by itself) just to have the best buff.

here is every single negative i could think of for carnivore diets;
- you are punished for not being able to find a specific creature, something entirely out of your control
- having a bad diet makes it considerably harder to hunt, making it hard to get any diet at all, locking you in a state of hoping you get lucky with scavenging or outright dying in an attempt to get food.
- getting organs is obnoxious. it may be because i play with a lower mouse sensitivity, but thrashing is near impossible. trying to get the hitbox for biting bodies is headache inducing, on top of trying to find the specific organ you need.
- you have to ignore the vast majority of edible bodies just to save space for diet foods unless you want the absolutely horrible no diet debuffs.
- having a diet not count from 1% to 99% but 99% to 1% makes no sense whatsoever, meaning you could finally get that precious kill you need, fill your diet to 99%, and it does absolutely nothing forcing you have to either wait for it to go away or yet again kill anything you see despite that you likely have more food still!
- the priority in which diets are filled. it goes top to bottom regardless of your existing diets. you can have a 10% // slot that you desperately need filled but its located at the lowest hexagon. you have the ability to eat // diet, but it instead fills the empty top hexagon, likely not filling it enough to activate and leaving your already activated diet to fade out. this forces your hand to kill yet again despite having a likely near full stomach.
- diet combos are useless. every Utah goes for the stamina build, every Cerato the health build. there is one objectively superior diet combo for every carnivore as it plays into their strengths. seriously, who would get the health diet as Troodon? or anyone the incubation diet?
- makes nesting that much more impossible. carnivores cannot go grocery shopping like herbivores can. how do you expect parents to not only be spending most of their hunger on their children, but to have a good diet and keep themselves fed? while staying in a proximity close to the nest? how do you expect not only any creatures at all to be immediately huntable in the area, but to be something on the diet list?
- the diet lists themselves are bad. Here's some of my favorites;
- Carno not having Cerato despite being in direct competition with them and being very capable of killing one.
- Deinosuchus has Frog and Troodon, things that are near impossible to see or catch, and provide absolutely no food even if you do.
- Utah having Cerato, who is BLEED RESISTANT, and Deinosuchus, a creature that is very unlikely to be killed even as a fresh spawn because of their aquatic nature, and again, BLEED RESISTANCE, on top of being tanky and surprisingly hard hitting. Two bleed resistant creatures on a bleeders list, remarkable.
- Troodon not having part of the roster despite in theory (without pounce glitches) being very capable of killing them. Can do as good as possible against Stegos, Gallimimus are brittle, and Carnotaurus is very possible.
- Ceratosaurus having Beipi. While Cerato has slightly good swim speed, it is absolutely nothing good enough to hunt such an agile aquatic creature.
- Anything with dryo in on the list. They’re non-existent.
The list will only get worse as more AI and more playables are added.

diets work great for herbivores because they can pick and choose, including diet combos. it's impossible to starve to death with a combination of grazing and plants everywhere, including diet plants, and it just gives herbivores something to do. the thrill for carnivores is the hunt, not the organ harvesting. herbivores have all the time in the world to get exactly the diet they want, even the incubation diet!

omnivores would be unchanged, it's just the basic herbivore set-up with one plant per diet, with some extra AI.

and because killing everything is so easy, half health and stamina regeneration. hunting should be something carefully calculated and executed with every meal feeling like you really earned it. i swear people just face tank instead of being careful because they know the opponent will die first, not caring for how low they will get in consequence because health heals in what feels like 5 minutes. this is optional because it's a big scary change people likely don't want, but i think it'd help remove the death-match aspect, something the developers are trying to deviate from a far as i'm aware.

Agree. Carnivores should actually have a diet restriction list in their stat board, imo. Meaning it should list things you shouldn't eat/can't eat. Rather than a limited list of what you can or are supposed to eat. In reality carnivores eat whatever they can. They avoid what they can't or eat it out of desperation and get sick (but mayeb survive meaning it was a positive choice vs dying by starvation).. Wolves don't eat just deer. They eat rabbits, coyotes, Goats, fish etc.... as you have said, you can't be picky in nature when your diet relies on killing other things to survive. You kill and eat what you find. You don't pass up food when you're hungry hoping you find the meat you really want.

So maybe some species of carnivores can't eat frogs or whatever (just a place holder) because it has a toxin that X species you're playing as, can't digest and if you eat it, itll stop you from starving but you'll get debuffs or whatever. Or maybe it requires multiple frogs before the toxin builds up and has negative effects. so you'd have to eat that animal multiple times. meaning you're doing a bad job at hunting so you're getting debuffs as a type of otherwise avoidable punishment. idk. Giving that it's believable AND the games lore (of the dinosaurs being bio-engineered) you could make up some jurassic park like excuse (lysine contingent) that X dinosaur has Y chemical in it's blood or meat and for whatever reason Z carnivore just can't digest it and it builds up as a toxin in their system. Meaning you get debuffs as a carni for making bad choices or out of desperation to not starve. A trade off. otherwise you should be able to eat everything else. Barring it's not too decayed for your species, of course.

[rustyOkin]

Origineel geplaatst door Dimitris:

Origineel geplaatst door Jake:

because as already stated carnos would eat whatever and whenever they got a chance they didn't give af about what the animal was. And why would you have to take out specific organs for certain proteins are you not consuming those very same organs when you consume the animal outright. The whole thing makes literally no sense. You have people straight up ignoring corpses because it's not what they want and searching HOURS for what they may need. Like i've put maybe 15 hours into this game now and have not seen a single deer or boar and i've been running all over the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ place.

animals in real life aswell have prefered pray and if you yourself go and eat something very different from what you usually eat youll get diarhea, the nutrients make sense and you can still eat other things for hunger.
Though eatting a full body should give all the ammount from the organs inside.

"preferred prey" There, you've just said it yourself! THIS is exactly the reason why the system is bad.

"preferred prey" is not the same as "prefered food" which is what the nutrients really are and that's just ninsense.
A cheetah doesn't hunt cape buffalo simply because it can't. However that doesn't mean it wouldn't eat it given the opportunity. Carnivores -> opportunists!

I give you a few ingame examples:
1) Ceratos have very high bleed an poison resistance while still being quite agile. Therefor they are not a good target for Troodons to hunt. The creatures game design, their stats, their strengths and weaknesses already dictate that to some extent.
BUT that doesn't mean it's impossible for a Troodon pack to kill a Cerato. There can be multiple reasons why you still decide to hunt something that's not your preferred prey: lack of other options, hunger & desperation, the target is a juvi...

2) T-Rex will most likely be quite slow once implemented. So actively hunting Gallimimus will not be worth the effort. The Galli needs to be deaf, blind, stupid or all 3 together to get caught by a Rex. For the Rex going after Gallis is just a waste of stamina in 99% of the cases.
HOWEVER if the Rex somehow still catches one or finds a Galli corpse to scavenge, it should absolutely fully benefit from eating it.
Punishing carnivores based on the availability of the "right" food/prey is just god awful game design and makes no sense.

3) The best example however is looking at carnivores as opportunists (as mentioned above), ESPECIALLY the small ones.
Lets say you play Herrerasaurus, one of the smallest carnivores within the roster. You can't be picky and rely on hunting small game, stealth and scavenging. Suddenly you find a huge, fat Stego corpse in the open field. Maybe it's still guarded by larger carnivores. You take the risk, sneak up and rip out a chunk of that juicy flesh before running back into the forest for safety. A nice gaming experience that should totally be rewarded. After all you eat something that you would never be able to kill on your own.
BUT the game with its current system tells you to NOT go for that massive corpse and instead go chase some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rabbit or chicken or whatever because it's "better" for you because some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ list says so!!!

I'm sorry but this nutrient crap is utter nonsense for carnivores (it makes sense for herbivores). It's annoying, punishes you for things you have no influence on and makes absolutely no sense from a gameplay point of view.

[Dimitris]

i dont see why you believe that theres no benefit from just gaining food?
you still survive, you just dont get buffs
so whats the issue?

[rustyOkin]

Origineel geplaatst door Dimitris:

i dont see why you believe that theres no benefit from just gaining food?
you still survive, you just dont get buffs
so whats the issue?

Because it's stupid af? It alters gameplay in an annoying way? It's a system that isn't appealing to play around?
And yes it does punish you in a way. You are punished for filling your stomach with "low quaility food" instead of nutrient meat which results in people going out of their way to complete their diet. I listed several examples how this affects both gameplay and immersion in a negative and unhealthy way.

[Mr. Nobody]

Origineel geplaatst door Rusty:

Origineel geplaatst door Dimitris:

i dont see why you believe that theres no benefit from just gaining food?
you still survive, you just dont get buffs
so whats the issue?

Because it's stupid af? It alters gameplay in an annoying way? It's a system that isn't appealing to play around?
And yes it does punish you in a way. You are punished for filling your stomach with "low quaility food" instead of nutrient meat which results in people going out of their way to complete their diet. I listed several examples how this affects both gameplay and immersion in a negative and unhealthy way.

and even then the whole "nutrient meat" makes no sense because they all have lungs, heart, intestines. So why would you have to pull that out individually when if you consume the entire animal you'd eat all of its organs.