Deino is unbalanced

[KingJooJooMonke]

I love losing hours of progress to something I can't even see. They're extremely easy to grow since you can just afk in a part of the map and live purely off of fish and they don't have any risks to their play style except other Deinos. Not to mention the devs buffing Deino by removing shallows. The only way to counter Deino is to migrate to the other side of the map for a drink.

[Aeden]

As a Deino player, you're not entirely wrong. They're probably the most relaxed carni in the game. However, there is still a serious issue with cannibals since many rely solely on fish and will guard their stretch of river viciously. Young Deinos also have to leave the water in order to eat, making them very vulnerable.

I've also only seen 2 other dinos as Deino, besides other Deinos. A Beipi who amused their self by pecking at my tail every 4 seconds, and a small herd of Tennos who witnessed me being murdered by a cannibal Deino.

However, saying they're unbalanced because you can't see them under water is not a great argument. Their modern day counterparts are also extremely difficult to see, even mere inches from the surface. Though as a balance mechanic, I would suggest locking the camera so it can't leave the water while fully submerged.

All of that said, while playing Deino, the only thing I've died to is other Deinos. There isn't enough aquatic realistate to support such a popular and "lazy" creature.

I'll also add that I've never reached 100%. Waiting hours upon hours, hoping to get big enough to have a chance at catching anything larger than a pig, then suddenly a cannibal swims over and ends you.

[Shittles]

There are unofficial servers that do grows, so you won't even have to wait 5+ hours to get to 100%. It's very convenient, less time afk in a bush and more time actually playing.

[Rinzler]

Since a long time now I always manage to grow my deino to 100%. For what? because I avoid the hottest places, I always keep my stamina almost at the maximum to escape in case of an unfair fight. I never expose myself, even to recover my stamina I am in a well hidden bush or as said before I avoid bringing it down. (on the ground) For the moment the stego is indestructible if it is well used ( in the water it won't do anything normal). The deino is the opposite, on the ground it is very vulnerable and very slow. So unless you're stupid it's better to stay in the water, unlike the stego you have to be careful of the cannibal. On the other hand, when the other apexes arrive, everything will change. The deino may be able to fight a spinosaurus in the water but on the ground... In the end what I think is that the apexes are not made to kill other apexes because the risk for everyone is too high. Better to leave a dead prey rather than lose your life.

[Miss Ruby]

Deino's actually have no enemy when they grow up... Should be more balanced.

[ISI]

Originally posted by Mrs. Silver ❤:

Deino's actually have no enemy when they grow up... Should be more balanced.

dieno has the worst enemy when grown up other dienos, as it should be.

[Urek]

The only people that die to deinos are new players. Almost every main location on the map has a safe drinking spot 5 minutes away. If you died to one, it's your fault.

[Invisible]

Originally posted by King Joo Joo Monke:

I love losing hours of progress to something I can't even see. They're extremely easy to grow since you can just afk in a part of the map and live purely off of fish and they don't have any risks to their play style except other Deinos. Not to mention the devs buffing Deino by removing shallows. The only way to counter Deino is to migrate to the other side of the map for a drink.

Here come the carebears trying to ruin yet another good game.

[KingJooJooMonke]

Originally posted by Robotron:

Originally posted by King Joo Joo Monke:

I love losing hours of progress to something I can't even see. They're extremely easy to grow since you can just afk in a part of the map and live purely off of fish and they don't have any risks to their play style except other Deinos. Not to mention the devs buffing Deino by removing shallows. The only way to counter Deino is to migrate to the other side of the map for a drink.

Here come the carebears trying to ruin yet another good game.

What's so wrong with my post? I'm pointing out something that I believe to be a flaw. If I am wrong correct me.

[joe.alton1]

Originally posted by King Joo Joo Monke:

Originally posted by Robotron:

Here come the carebears trying to ruin yet another good game.

What's so wrong with my post? I'm pointing out something that I believe to be a flaw. If I am wrong correct me.

That's crazy, how's bruh gonna react?

[Dopper]

Originally posted by Aeden:

As a Deino player, you're not entirely wrong. They're probably the most relaxed carni in the game. However, there is still a serious issue with cannibals since many rely solely on fish and will guard their stretch of river viciously. Young Deinos also have to leave the water in order to eat, making them very vulnerable.

I've also only seen 2 other dinos as Deino, besides other Deinos. A Beipi who amused their self by pecking at my tail every 4 seconds, and a small herd of Tennos who witnessed me being murdered by a cannibal Deino.

However, saying they're unbalanced because you can't see them under water is not a great argument. Their modern day counterparts are also extremely difficult to see, even mere inches from the surface. Though as a balance mechanic, I would suggest locking the camera so it can't leave the water while fully submerged.

All of that said, while playing Deino, the only thing I've died to is other Deinos. There isn't enough aquatic realistate to support such a popular and "lazy" creature.

I'll also add that I've never reached 100%. Waiting hours upon hours, hoping to get big enough to have a chance at catching anything larger than a pig, then suddenly a cannibal swims over and ends you.

I think the main problem is that despite being a cannibal species there is no real reason to cannibalize, since so long as you camp the right spots food LITERALLY comes to you. You are also pretty tanky and do a good deal of damage, and you will always have the water to retreat to and prevent attacks from the rear.

Crocs are basically apex as there is currently no place that players can drink that is safe from deinos, meaning there is no incentive for infighting for territory as there are no limits to where 'good spots' where ambushes can be launched.

If there was a limit to the areas that deinos could successfully ambush, then you would not have to deal with massive colonies of dinos on every single server as only a few would occupy each location. You would probably also have to incetivize the non-deino players from drinking from these spots to ensure deinos don't get nerfed into oblivion, like 'better' water spots filling thirst faster at the risk for croc ambush. High risk/high reward.

The current system seems like there is no reason to ever cannibalize, despite deinos being designed as cannibals. Having a reworked water system is the best way to change that.

[KingJooJooMonke]

Originally posted by Dopper:

Originally posted by Aeden:

As a Deino player, you're not entirely wrong. They're probably the most relaxed carni in the game. However, there is still a serious issue with cannibals since many rely solely on fish and will guard their stretch of river viciously. Young Deinos also have to leave the water in order to eat, making them very vulnerable.

I've also only seen 2 other dinos as Deino, besides other Deinos. A Beipi who amused their self by pecking at my tail every 4 seconds, and a small herd of Tennos who witnessed me being murdered by a cannibal Deino.

However, saying they're unbalanced because you can't see them under water is not a great argument. Their modern day counterparts are also extremely difficult to see, even mere inches from the surface. Though as a balance mechanic, I would suggest locking the camera so it can't leave the water while fully submerged.

All of that said, while playing Deino, the only thing I've died to is other Deinos. There isn't enough aquatic realistate to support such a popular and "lazy" creature.

I'll also add that I've never reached 100%. Waiting hours upon hours, hoping to get big enough to have a chance at catching anything larger than a pig, then suddenly a cannibal swims over and ends you.

I think the main problem is that despite being a cannibal species there is no real reason to cannibalize, since so long as you camp the right spots food LITERALLY comes to you. You are also pretty tanky and do a good deal of damage, and you will always have the water to retreat to and prevent attacks from the rear.

Crocs are basically apex as there is currently no place that players can drink that is safe from deinos, meaning there is no incentive for infighting for territory as there are no limits to where 'good spots' where ambushes can be launched.

If there was a limit to the areas that deinos could successfully ambush, then you would not have to deal with massive colonies of dinos on every single server as only a few would occupy each location. You would probably also have to incetivize the non-deino players from drinking from these spots to ensure deinos don't get nerfed into oblivion, like 'better' water spots filling thirst faster at the risk for croc ambush. High risk/high reward.

The current system seems like there is no reason to ever cannibalize, despite deinos being designed as cannibals. Having a reworked water system is the best way to change that.

The problem with adding more shallows is that Deino would become obsolete. I mean why go and drink from a river and risk dying when you can just avoid that risk all together. I've spent 90% of my time in Evrima at waterfall just to avoid gators.

The solution lies in making Deino more challenging. Currently it's impossible to spot a Deino, something that will grab you and one shot you in most cases. They can see you but you'll never see them, They don't ever have to worry about food since fish are enough to sustain them, and as you said they don't really need to fight each other (although it does happen since they are the only thing that challenges them).

Somebody from another discussion did mention lowering the camera underwater when swimming below the surface to make it harder to spot dinosaurs, this on paper does sound nice. I think the focus should be on how Deino is going to interact with land, an idea could be forcing Deino to manage a temperature gauge and having to rest on land which could prove dangerous when other apexes are added. It was also teased that we'd be getting natural disasters a few years back with forest fires, I don't know if that included droughts. But really a lot of it is going to boil down to how the developers design Gateway, especially with lakes and shallows.

So does Deino need tweaking? Yes. But I also believe a big reason Deino feeling "unbalanced" is due to the map which makes things more complicated than Deino being the direct problem.

[أنت معتوه]

They just shouldnt have added an apex predator that you litteraly cant see and are forced to go to it lmao. Anyone with above 10 IQ knows how to avoid cannibals very easily, aka going on land, saving your stam, looking around, being underwater so they cant water sense you etc... All these excuses that it should be able to oneshot anything in the game by just holding right click because of other ´´cannibals´´ is hilarious.

[Dopper]

Originally posted by King Joo Joo Monke:

I've spent 90% of my time in Evrima at waterfall just to avoid gators.

While I agree there should be no such thing as a 'safe space' in this game, this feels like a huge problem for me. If you are already going to such lengths and dedicated 90% of your time in game to finding spots without crocs to 1-shot you then that indicates there is a problem with the way the rivers are set up. There are (to my knowledge) no bodies of water beyond swamplands that you can walk across. This honestly just feels a bit ridiculous to me as this means that crocs will always have the advantage over you in every scenario you encounter them.

On land, individual skill and the scenario can give realistic expectations for certain species to come out on top. Rivers are not fun to play, hold E and slowly watch thirst bar raise. Plains at least everyone have a chance to potentially thrive in, jungles too, but rivers are the only map feature designed for only ONE species to have fun at. Along the riverbanks, there is no evasion, there is no player skill to make your dino drink faster, no feasible window of opportunity for reaction. Just a x=y scenario, if deino=yes then player=dead.

Originally posted by King Joo Joo Monke:

But I also believe a big reason Deino feeling "unbalanced" is due to the map which makes things more complicated than Deino being the direct problem.

I agree, this is the real problem. The camera idea sounds good, the idea that they have to surface could solve this problem and maybe give players on-land a heads up, but there will still be camera cheese and the problem doesn't get solved. but I still feel like reworking the water bodies as a whole in will go a lot father than having them cater to a single player type in a game about tons of dino species interacting, especially if more aquatic species are going to be added.

On that note, they might add air bubbles that occasionally blurb up if a deino is camping underwater.

[Roman 45]

Originally posted by Mrs. Silver ❤:

Deino's actually have no enemy when they grow up... Should be more balanced.

That will change with the introduction of Suchominus, and propably some more semi aquatic dinos....but still there is always a chance to get eaten by other deinos anyway.

[Good Old Jim]

Originally posted by King Joo Joo Monke:

I love losing hours of progress to something I can't even see. They're extremely easy to grow since you can just afk in a part of the map and live purely off of fish and they don't have any risks to their play style except other Deinos. Not to mention the devs buffing Deino by removing shallows. The only way to counter Deino is to migrate to the other side of the map for a drink.

While I actually agree with everything your saying in general, there are multiple safe places to drink I actually have a self made migratory path I hunt and travel along as a Utah for the exact purpose of reaching safe drinking spots. If you'd like I can show you sometime. The spots are not like all 110% safe but Ive never been successfully grabbed while drinking at any of them.