Instalar Steam
iniciar sesión
|
idioma
简体中文 (Chino simplificado)
繁體中文 (Chino tradicional)
日本語 (Japonés)
한국어 (Coreano)
ไทย (Tailandés)
български (Búlgaro)
Čeština (Checo)
Dansk (Danés)
Deutsch (Alemán)
English (Inglés)
Español - España
Ελληνικά (Griego)
Français (Francés)
Italiano
Bahasa Indonesia (indonesio)
Magyar (Húngaro)
Nederlands (Holandés)
Norsk (Noruego)
Polski (Polaco)
Português (Portugués de Portugal)
Português - Brasil (Portugués - Brasil)
Română (Rumano)
Русский (Ruso)
Suomi (Finés)
Svenska (Sueco)
Türkçe (Turco)
Tiếng Việt (Vietnamita)
Українська (Ucraniano)
Informar de un error de traducción
Normas y directrices sobre discusión
Denunciar este mensaje
Yes I'm alr, thank you.
I'm just frustrated I even have to be making posts like this across social platforms, to try and save others from having the same experience, or wasting their money on this game just to not be able to play it bc of this new night vision.
This should be something THEY are doing.
When I talked to Punch; this was all I asked for.
For them to make a warning announcement like this, bc as of right now there is absolutely N O T H I N G warning players about the possible risks they now face playing the game.
Which... yes.... can lead to legal complications if I/others were to pursue lawsuits for the damages done.
The entire point of having the warning screens, is to protect game devs from these sorts of lawsuits.
But at the same time - these sorts of lawsuits have literally /never/ been won by the consumer. Every single case has either been dismissed, settled, or won by the company.
(article about it; referring to cases between 1991 and 2011)
https://videogameseizures.wordpress.com/2013/04/06/lawsuits-filed-after-games-caused-seizures/
everlove113003 · 1 day ago
As someone with epileptic issues who was considered buying the game, this and so many other posts I’ve seen about major issues, both in game and with the dev’s, made me realize it’s not worth it haha. I hope you’re okay, and I would definitely pursue legal action if you can afford it. That’s endangering their epileptic and even migraine prone players by not publicly warning them.
PsychoInHell · 12 hr. ago
I think the devs really didn’t expect so many people to have issues with it and it’s really shameful they’re digging their heels in so much. The game is pitch black at night now without night vision and it’s night half the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time now! I can’t play with nightvision because it causes seizure activity for me and makes me sick and I’ve actually never had a problem in any game before this one which says a lot about how bad it is
This is the reason you make warning notices about your game AS SOON AS you know it causes this sort of issue.
Night vision was released on the 22nd.
I made a report that night about the eye strain and headache, alongside a couple others.
I had a seizure that night, so made a post about it on the 23rd, and was contacted by a QA member *that same day.*
They've known about it literally since the day after release, and haven't made any sort of statement about it, what so ever.
Punch's responses as to why they won't make an announcement -
Punchpacket — 08/27/2022
We're aware of the report, but an announcement for what precisely? As first we have to investigate other potential solutions, or if doing so is feasible at this time. The announcement wouldn't contain anything worthwhile at this point, as whether or not changes are going to happen is yet to be decided.
Punchpacket — 08/27/2022
It's also one of those things where an announcement based on nothing (when I say nothing, I mean the lack of a decision being made on our end), only serves to give people false hope. And we can't really make announcements for every single alleged case of an incident like this. We do however plan on putting a photosensitive warning into the startup of the game, I think that's going through the art design team right now.
------- something I said, for context for his next response ---------
All people want, from what I've seen recently, is confirmation that you guys are paying attention and listening. Everyone thinks y'all just don't care, or aren't taking it seriously, bc there's been no form of contact about it at all. That some staff members think we are just lying or exaggerating our responses to it.
And if you make a warning about it on Discord for now, it gives an early decrease in the risk of it happening again until the in-game warning is put in place.
Punchpacket — 08/27/2022
You don't need that confirmation, because we are listening. You're always free to DM me directly if you have questions, concerns or need assistance. But people acting like we ignore feedback is always going to exist no matter what we do. And I'm not familiar with any other game making announcements over Discord every time there's an alleged report of someone undergoing a response from a medical condition.
Murrocity — 08/27/2022
I never said anything about making reports every time.
But you had a rather notable grouping of your community have the same overall response to a new feature you added. (and by this ofc I meant the reports of eye strain, headaches, and nausea)
Punchpacket — 08/27/2022
A new feature which was very very recently added, it takes time to fully absorb all of that feedback and make informed decisions based off of it.
Murrocity — 08/27/2022
I know, and I get that. But this has been a repetitive one, with numerous suggestions on it being related to/in lieu of the same issue. It's like only I or a small handful of other people have said it. But, it is what it is honestly. There's no reason for me to sit here and argue over it. Y'all will do what y'all decide to do.
Punchpacket — 08/27/2022
Yes, to something which was very recently added. And it's important that we take the appropriate amount of time to absorb that feedback and explore the feasibility of our options before making a statement on it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd be happy to give screenshots;
and obv, I understand not wanting to go ahead with a post claiming or denying they will do anything in the long term about it. (as in, I get, they can't know right now what they want to do /with/ the night vision.. i.e. following suggestions given on what to do with it, remove it all together, et.c)
But, that's not what is being asked for here. Again; all I want/wanted was a big, bold warning like the one I made here, about the risks players now face while playing their game.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I did also send a screenshot of CyberPunk 2077's twitter post -
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1013084647174971424/1014201258808201317/cyberpunk.PNG
Punchpacket — Yesterday at 10:55 AM
As far as I'm aware, as I recall the Cyberpunk stuff, that happened a substantial time after said cases were reported. However we're also opting to educate ourselves on the condition itself.
So.... kinda just feels like hiding behind/using the delayed response of this company as an excuse/reasoning as to why they shouldn't/won't go ahead and make a similar announcement *now*??? (My take on it, anyways. Hence I just opted for making this post here). It just doesn't make any sense to me as to why they wouldn't want to do this as soon as they can, to avoid harming more of their community in this manner.
They have an opportunity to catch this /early/ and take care of it /early/ before they DO start facing more and more issues over it.
But just telling me/one person isn't the same as alerting your entire player-base... Just /me/ knowing, does not solve the problem or in any way make it okay. I alone do not speak for the entire community of people who experience eye strain, headaches, nausea, etc. Nor do I alone represent the entire community of people who are photosensitive or epileptic.
Even content creators on YT have already begun putting warnings at the beginning of their videos for their viewers.
They could post it anyways? I mean, the people who don't have issues, or don't know that they have issues would buy the game. If you don't know that you have issues, you can't take legal action against a company that warned players? The warning is a disclaimer, after all, and that should protect them, and that seems fair?
The people who do have issues, will see the warning and not play it. If there's even a SLIGHT chance a game has content that would trigger any of this, that's reason enough really? If they can't make changes to prevent issues, I mean.
Unless they want to (or believe they can) do the work, but it's not like they can test it on existing players. They also can't just wait keep making adjustments until the reports stop coming in, neither? Or, maybe they can? I don't know what the legal policy is for that.
Another course of action is seeking some posted list that gets updated regularly from a reliable source to help them make changes to their game, or an official organisation devoted to this very thing to advise them on how to handle the situation.
As a person diagnosed with these issues, is there anything you were told that would help them out? The info in the cyberpunk link there seems like it could be useful, but is there more?
It sounds like it could end up being a lot like testing, actually. Sometimes you can pinpoint the problem, and other times it's elusive? With this issue, tho, I couldn't tells ya. In the cyberpunk example, did players point out an exact cause?
Not sure, but I think the idea of some kind of setting to prevent or combat photo sens etc is being tossed around, or exists already in some game, I dunno? I hope that becomes a reality, tho. It would definitely help a lot of people enjoy the same games others can!
Yes, exactly. It's just a disclaimer/warning, that's all they need to do right now.
They can do whatever else and make announcements about such action at a later date, once they've considered everything.
I gave some info to the QA team member who contacted me the day I posted the report - gave some photos of Lost Ark's photosensitive mode, and have discussed a bit on different things they might could try - but the problem is, I've never had this sort of problem with a game before. This is the first time I've had such a response, so it's hard for me to just pin-point exactly where it went wrong.
The entire design hurts. All the abstract, white lines and detail against a solid black screen... my eyes can't focus at all.
Some suggestions I've decided could be good places to start (if they wanted to just work on this release; rather than considering the alternative versions players have shown off) are
- get rid of motion blur
- make the lines darker, and reduce the clutter
- gt rid of any flickering
There was others... but I'd have to dig through old posts.
I did also link to this website, which goes over common photosensitive triggers -
https://www.epilepsy.com/what-is-epilepsy/seizure-triggers/photosensitivity
Then photosensitive; and especially epileptic; individuals just won't be able to play the game anymore, given these flickers and flashes in the light/white is a pretty big trigger in itself.
Which... at that point, I wish I could get a refund. It feels like a slap in the face a bit, to just suddenly not be able to play anymore (in the case that they don't change it to allow us to play) bc they suddenly put this in the game.) ; A ;
You don't need to make things pitch black to combat gamma, nor do you need to nerf or buff to balance things.
KissenKitten - Producer
Speaking of light, we have received a lot of your feedback in regards to the new night vision causing some of our more sensitive players motion sickness and headaches and are working on making some adjustments to make it easier on the eyes. We take the matter seriously and want to make sure we can make the night vision experience comfortable for as wide a range of people as possible. Should it take longer than expected to make those adjustments, we will revert night vision in the interim so we don’t bar any of you from playing while we craft a solution.
-------
And I love how the only part they made bold is about how seriously they take it - rather than actually just making a bold, possibly underlined, single-sentence statement/disclaimer/warning at the top of the devblog.
Good to know they want to/will be working to make it more accessible for as large a range of players as possible; yes. Better than not having said anything at all, yes.
But; the epilepsy wasn't even mentioned, which should have been, regardless of how "true" people think it is. I'm not even the only one who has reported it. It's all the way at the bottom, with literally nothing there to help draw attention to it. So chances are, most players are going to miss it anyways.
Looks good!
The most important take from all this is that they are trying to make changes, and I'm sure they'll give the players effected by this issue a serious heads up about those changes in a VERY informative way. To help guarantee there won't be any more issues.
It's NOT like they can guess and say "How bout now??" ...!! They just have to know, and be 100% sure about it, or it's just playing with fire.
Should they disable NV in the meantime? I'd say ...
- They're kind of valuing the players who aren't effected by it more so, if they don't. This suggests that making night more playable by adjusting the lighting is an issue for them in the short term.
- Or, they do, and the players who aren't effected by it get upset, bc the night becomes unplayable again. Or, maybe it was? I dunno.
A happy medium here is to make the night time as playable as the day time, until they can fix it?
Knowing they want to work on it ofc is great, and yeah there's certainly a few ways they could go about addressing it.
Ultimately, though -the point of my post isn't to have something /done about/ the night vision.
The point is that they need to add an obvious, public disclaimer about the actual harm players now risk when playing the game.
The same sort of disclaimer they'll be adding to the loading screens of the game, is all they need to do. It's all I've been trying to get them to do.
The longer they go without doing so, the longer they perpetuate the problem and risk more and more of their player base experiencing these issues. Not to mention the people considering whether or not to buy the game - they deserve to know the game they are considering buying causes these problems, that way if they are photosensitive or epileptic themselves, they can look into it more and decide whether or not they want to risk it and get the game still or not.
They shouldn't figure out by having one of these responses of their own after buying the game and playing for the first time. They should know ahead of time via one of these disclaimers.
As long as they fail to place a disclaimer, they are also leaving themselves open to legal ramification for the harm/damage the are causing their players.
I think this is why no legal case has ever been won by a sufferer, the disease has long been understood to occur in a huge range of visual media and has long been considered common knowledge
I think the Devs are taking this seriously and want to reduce the occurrence if they can, they have been quite open about that and will try and modify the effect or even remove NV from the game to allow those few to play, but this isn't something that will totally go away and we all know it, someone will always have a health issue that can't be totally ruled out
Firstly; these are medical conditions... not "diseases".
Secondaly; regardless of whether or not cases have been won by the sufferer, it's still common practice to place these disclaimers when necessary, as it is now.
And yes, these disclaimers actually do A LOT more than people like you seem to think. Just bc it's not something /you/ have to worry about and pay attention to when considering games, doesn't mean it doesn't do any good for games to have it.
It lets us know there is this risk, and we are playing the game knowing of the risk. I even have games I play with said disclaimers, but for me personally it doesn't cause an issue, or said game has a photosensitive/epilepsy accessibility mode.
---
Let's say I only just now was considering buying the game. If there was a disclaimer about the photosensitive and epilepsy, I'd first look into it more to determine whether or not it'd be a problem for me... which ofc, in this case, it is. So I just wouldn't buy and play the game.
Whereas without a warning at all; I'd likely buy the game considering I like dino survival games and this one is pretty popular... only to play for the first time and experience a harmful reaction. Which ofc then leads to yet another report of a photosensitive or epileptic response to their game.
Which all could have been avoided had they just had a disclaimer.
----
YES., It's wonderful to hear they want to make the game available and comfortable for as wide a range of players as possible, and that they want to work on making it more friendly to their "more sensitive players".
But that doesn't actually do anything in terms of the actual problem at hand:
They are causing actual, medical, harm to their players.
Regardless of what happens with the case, them causing this harm to their players, still leaves them open to legal repercussion given they currently have no form of photosensitive/epileptic disclaimer.
They are just perpetuating the problem.
-------
I'll repeat myself as many times as I need to.
You can't argue against the health and safety of players.
There is no argument to be made.
It's like saying they shouldn't have weight limits on rides just bc obesity is a common medical condition and bc people know they have it and know it could cause this or that problem. Wanna know what happens when you don't follow these guidelines? People fall to their deaths bc the ride's safety system doesn't lock properly/support their weight.
They need a disclaimer, as any other game would have, end of story. Period.
They are there for a reason, regardless of whether or not YOU think they are "practical".
Because with that warning, players - for a fact - are aware they have a risk of experiencing these problems. They see the warnings, and buy/play the game with that risk on their own. It removes liability from the company.
Warnings matter little in this case because were dealing with something that has been understood for a long time and is common knowledge particularly with any visual media, personal responsibility works far far better, if your at risk, do your own research on what media you consume, assume any visual media could trigger you and tread carefully, and be particularly careful getting in to a actively developing game, where things change regularly, probably avoid EA games all together
Personally I think just put the warning in even if it all it does is stop complaints, at least it's a little peace for the Devs