REMOVE THE LAKE!!!

[Walter]

Everyone is going there and there is no danger there!! No Denio etc... Where is the fear you had everytime you went to drink water??

[Eldrum]

I've also heard a suggestion about adding more lakes, which would split the population. I think they should do that in the very near future if they intend to keep jungle/plains lakes... deino also shouldn't be blocked off from lunging there as that's the main way they could limit so many players from crowding along the lake (deinos can make it to that pond albeit it is difficult for them).

[Cutest Kenan (They/Them)]

The oasis (Assuming thats the lake you are talking about.) has a really interesting and likely unintended feature where certain areas are too shallow for giant crocs, but smaller crocs can still hide underwater and ambush. I really like that and would be nice if that design was made more intentional so big crocs *might* not be an obvious threat, but there might still be small gators who are hungry and being totally ready to drown you.

[Eldrum]

Originally posted by Cutest Kenan (They/Them):

The oasis (Assuming thats the lake you are talking about.) has a really interesting and likely unintended feature where certain areas are too shallow for giant crocs, but smaller crocs can still hide underwater and ambush. I really like that and would be nice if that design was made more intentional so big crocs *might* not be an obvious threat, but there might still be small gators who are hungry and being totally ready to drown you.

Yeah that would definitely work if there was more space in those areas. Maybe designed for up to 25-65% grown deinos

[Cutest Kenan (They/Them)]

Originally posted by Eldrum:

Originally posted by Cutest Kenan (They/Them):

The oasis (Assuming thats the lake you are talking about.) has a really interesting and likely unintended feature where certain areas are too shallow for giant crocs, but smaller crocs can still hide underwater and ambush. I really like that and would be nice if that design was made more intentional so big crocs *might* not be an obvious threat, but there might still be small gators who are hungry and being totally ready to drown you.

Yeah that would definitely work if there was more space in those areas. Maybe designed for up to 25-65% grown deinos

Mhm.

Would be cool if they added a water path from the "main" network to the oasis that only younglins can hide and safely travel in. Would make for an interesting dynamic where people might start camping and trying to get a fresh juvie to snack on as they travel to the Oasis.

But yeah, it would be lovely to have more growth-dependent ambush spots.

[Hans Wright]

Fish should spawn in the greater numbers though. I dont know how it was in previous updates, but right now, as grown deino i had to travel up and down the river to find some to feed, often being able to find only like one or two. It makes it almost impossible for more deinos to exist near each other without cannibalism out of hunger.

And ofcourse, during my whole growth, ive seen like two dinos going near the river, third being juvie ptera that kinda fell in it, thats about it. That makes river almost completely empty like 70% of the time. :( My eventual demise being two adult deinos. No surprise there.

If deino itself is feeling more safe outside of the water than being in, something is wrong. Cannibalism is not that common even for crocs today, there is usually enough food around for them to be able to live near each other in great numbers with no such problems, from time to time, yeah, why not, its survival after all, but right now its total free-for-all for deinos.

[snow-cheirus]

Originally posted by Hans Wright:

Fish should spawn in the greater numbers though. I dont know how it was in previous updates, but right now, as grown deino i had to travel up and down the river to find some to feed, often being able to find only like one or two. It makes it almost impossible for more deinos to exist near each other without cannibalism out of hunger.

And ofcourse, during my whole growth, ive seen like two dinos going near the river, third being juvie ptera that kinda fell in it, thats about it. That makes river almost completely empty like 70% of the time. :( My eventual demise being two adult deinos. No surprise there.

If deino itself is feeling more safe outside of the water than being in, something is wrong. Cannibalism is not that common even for crocs today, there is usually enough food around for them to be able to live near each other in great numbers with no such problems, from time to time, yeah, why not, its survival after all, but right now its total free-for-all for deinos.

Kill or be killed man, that's life. Or death, if you make a mistake. I usually kill/eat smaller deinos I meet. I know it's mean, but letting them survive will force me to deal with 8 tons of competition later. This deino cannibalism (or free-for-all as you describe it, which isn't entirely inaccurate) helps deter the Deino overpopulation that was so prevalent before Update 4.

Also, as a Southerner, I know that gators taste gosh-darn scrumptious, so why would I pass up such a meal? (gators are no longer endangered species, it's all cool)

[Hans Wright]

I would not call it life, more like endangered species simulator. I get what you are sayin but this is too much, not even land apex like T-rex has it that way. Why? Because there is much more food for him walking around and he can actually reach it.

Many people now hang around hard to get ponds/lakes, which leaves deinos mainly with relatively low number of fishes and other deinos. It doesn't even matter if somebody will go to river to drink anymore, because there is so few of the adult deinos around that rivers are often empty anyway. Or maybe i just played in the wrong time, i don't know.

[rustyOkin]

The lake (the oasis located in the plains) is not the problem at all!
Deinos can go there if they want to and in fact have better chances to catch something there. The real problems are:

1) the shallows, the extremely long river section that you can walk through but still can safely drink from

2) endless rivers that go over the entire map resulting in a very low chance that a Deino player actually sits right at the spot where something wants to drink or cross the river. This is not the case with lakes!

Even if the diet system wouldn't allow cannibalism among Deinos they would still eat each other like crazy right now because of the bad map design. Remove the rivers and add some lakes INSTEAD - not in adition

[Hans Wright]

In that problem with river you actually have point.
It may help to make some parts of the river very hard to get to, like rocks, vegetation, too steep terrain etc. so at least in some way can deinos predict where animals will go to drink.
It would also help if AI animals (later possibly AI dinos) would actually have programmed to also go to drink from time to time.

But even now i can see that to balance it all properly will be extremely hard. Just like normal, living ecosystem, one thing will go wrong there, and it will cause chain reaction.

[Hans Wright]

"Hotspots" are problematic, it takes just a few accidents for people to find better spot, if there is one.

"Herd" mechanic would be good for herbivores, so more than one specimen would have drunk at the same time so carnivores would have bigger chance for catching a prey and herbivores would have greater chance of survival. That's how nature works.
But good luck with teaching players that. After all, it's not reall life and players are not animals.

[Pablo Croft]

In my experiences, when hot spots are a problem it only means 1 of 3 things now (and this isn't limited to the isle):

1. A super gathering of peaceful friendly players. Who all kill you if you are "aggro." This usually happens when global chat is on, but let's face it, 3rd party chat exists. Players can hoard up and coordinate just fine. Friendly duels.

2. It's a killing zone. Nothing is friendly, and players are just shooting fish, and themselves in a barrel. They may as well make the map the size of the hot spot for those players lol. Survival is not found here. If it is, it's undone in the next moment. Or, players are just stupid lucky. or over grouped, or mixing the wrong way.

Legacy was full of player servers that played like any of the above examples. Now, EVRIMA officials play like those too. I guess they thought, hm, we should model EVRIMA after those. We'll throw in some official mechanics so those people don't get left out. The later would be nice, if it mattered any lol.

^The above is simply the result of no outer group management. A pointless group cap, and species restriction. Again, this isn't limited to just the isle. They're all doing it, save for maybe BOB? I hear they control grouping more so there.

Your group provides (w/e they are, and it doesn't matter what they are), so the dietary system isn't going to work. They just need to kill it, or get you there.

[bigmoe808]

Originally posted by Pablo Croft:

In my experiences, when hot spots are a problem it only means 1 of 3 things now (and this isn't limited to the isle):

1. A super gathering of peaceful friendly players. Who all kill you if you are "aggro." This usually happens when global chat is on, but let's face it, 3rd party chat exists. Players can hoard up and coordinate just fine. Friendly duels.

2. It's a killing zone. Nothing is friendly, and players are just shooting fish, and themselves in a barrel. They may as well make the map the size of the hot spot for those players lol. Survival is not found here. If it is, it's undone in the next moment. Or, players are just stupid lucky. or over grouped, or mixing the wrong way.

Legacy was full of player servers that played like any of the above examples. Now, EVRIMA officials play like those too. I guess they thought, hm, we should model EVRIMA after those. We'll throw in some official mechanics so those people don't get left out. The later would be nice, if it mattered any lol.

^The above is simply the result of no outer group management. A pointless group cap, and species restriction. Again, this isn't limited to just the isle. They're all doing it, save for maybe BOB? I hear they control grouping more so there.

Your group provides (w/e they are, and it doesn't matter what they are), so the dietary system isn't going to work. They just need to kill it, or get you there.

What's the third?

[rustyOkin]

Originally posted by Terrorsaur:

Originally posted by Rusty:

The lake (the oasis located in the plains) is not the problem at all!
Deinos can go there if they want to and in fact have better chances to catch something there. The real problems are:

1) the shallows, the extremely long river section that you can walk through but still can safely drink from

2) endless rivers that go over the entire map resulting in a very low chance that a Deino player actually sits right at the spot where something wants to drink or cross the river. This is not the case with lakes!

Even if the diet system wouldn't allow cannibalism among Deinos they would still eat each other like crazy right now because of the bad map design. Remove the rivers and add some lakes INSTEAD - not in adition

the shallows have already been redone. now, even if a grown croc cannot submerge, they can still swim pretty much the whole length of the former shallows, all the way from central to the fork to south.

and the second problem is a player problem, not a map problem. most crocs want to hang at hotspots rather than all through the river. i'd rather hide out at random spots on the river, but the devs seem to think like players and set the spawnpoints for the majority of big fish to be near hotspots.

Oh ok didn't know about redone shallows but if a Deino can't fully submerge the problem more or less still exists.

Hotspots aren't a player problem. Players will always gather at specific locations. LocationS - plural! The devs have effectively created ONE hotspot with the oasis. A small puddle in an open field where you can easily see approaching threats.

Now imagine 4 large lakes that offer some cover similar to the swamp as your only bodies of fresh water on the map. Now you have 4 so called "hotspots" (I hate that word) and the playerbase spreads out while at the same time giving playables like Deinos a realistic but reasonable chance to hunt something.

[Skyisblue-.]

Originally posted by Rusty:

Originally posted by Terrorsaur:

the shallows have already been redone. now, even if a grown croc cannot submerge, they can still swim pretty much the whole length of the former shallows, all the way from central to the fork to south.

and the second problem is a player problem, not a map problem. most crocs want to hang at hotspots rather than all through the river. i'd rather hide out at random spots on the river, but the devs seem to think like players and set the spawnpoints for the majority of big fish to be near hotspots.

Oh ok didn't know about redone shallows but if a Deino can't fully submerge the problem more or less still exists.

Hotspots aren't a player problem. Players will always gather at specific locations. LocationS - plural! The devs have effectively created ONE hotspot with the oasis. A small puddle in an open field where you can easily see approaching threats.

Now imagine 4 large lakes that offer some cover similar to the swamp as your only bodies of fresh water on the map. Now you have 4 so called "hotspots" (I hate that word) and the playerbase spreads out while at the same time giving playables like Deinos a realistic but reasonable chance to hunt something.

It won't work because players are always going to choose the safest location possible. So unless these lakes are identical, the player dispersion is going to be minimal. People will sit at the best spot to drink/eat from and avoid any potential threats because humans aren't as stupid as animals. So unless the game forces you to take some risks, they aren't going to do it.

The issue of plains oasis/pond/lake (whatever you people want to call it) for deinos is that the entire circumference of the place is shallow, so no matter where you sit and drink from you'll see a deino coming if they come from the water. That makes the deinos unique mechanic completely pointless... We are meant to stalk and lunge from the water, but we can't really do that because there is nowhere in the water to hide (that's close enough to where people drink).

Can you kill people there as a deino? Yes, you absolutely can, and I have. I use the bushes to ambush those herbi mega packs, but even still you have to hope they have their guard down, and once they realise the bushes arent safe, there are still plenty of areas to go where they can avoid you.
It's obvious that the design of the place was to create a safe drinking place near the player hotspot that is the plains. Obviously nowhere is going to be 100% safe, but compare that to drinking at the central river... Which are you going to choose?

[Hans Wright]

To defend oasis/pond/lake AND also rivers existence is, that we need to keep in mind that situation as it is right now will not last forever. I feel like inevitable introduction of Spinosaurid family trio (bary/sucho/spino) will have it's say in that matter of "safe lakes". By that point, there will probably be no water source that wouldn't have it's own water dwelling carnivore. Players will then be forced to make a choice with who they will take their chances if they want to drink.