Utah pounce

[76561198930339305]

I dont know if this is a bug or not but when i pounce a stego, after i jump off the stego he is still able to hit me with his tail. Did i not jump far enough. do I have to hold a button which makes me jump off out of the tails reach? Any tips would be welcome.

Oh and before anyone makes the "dont fight stego as utah" comment, plz dont. Its totally possible for 2 or more utahs to kill 1 stego.

[PEEBOY]

its how it is right now. its almost a guaranteed death sentence if the stego understands how vulnerable a utah is after detaching from a pounce while fighting it. i dont know if there actually is a small window where youre able to detach from a pounce in between stego swings and safely get away (in code/math) but from what ive seen in game, especially with lag/desync...the only way you survive a pounce vs stego is luck or the stego makes a mistake.

there could be some mind games that increase your chances of surviving a pounce, like having teammates harass the stegos head, baiting swings on a different side, or even the entire pack pouncing it when the stego is a bit bloody forcing it to panic run. your best chance of surviving a pounce on stego aside from getting lucky is detaching while the stego is running.

[Feesh]

The game has no balance or any polishing. The Isle never was a skill-based game and developers have no knowledge or experience of skill-based development approach, it was just a stats game where you run into another opponent and outbite him, if your attack numebr higher, or - outrun him, if your stamina number higher. The end.

As a consequence, pounce only work against inexperienced players. If you see your opponent is experienced - dont use it.

[PEEBOY]

legacy might have been an almost skill-less rock paper scissors, but evrima isnt really. you can for sure out skill people in evrima even if your dino is weaker. there are enough mechanics in the game to support skill based combat. whether the skill ceiling is high enough or not (learning curve) could be debated, but to say it isnt skill based now isnt true.

[Feesh]

Originally posted by ryan:

legacy might have been an almost skill-less rock paper scissors,

That's exactly first part of my message.

but evrima isnt really.

I disagree. Disagree with "isn't really". Yes, they are trying a different approach with Evrima, but they are far, FAR away from success so their current state is not "isn't". As I mentioned, they dont have any experience in dsigning skill-based gameplay loop so they are just applying generic approach (concept) plus what they know/learned from other skill based game. That does not mean it is good or working well. What we have is a very barebones, exploitable setup where it SEEMS like it is designed to be around skill but in reality there is just a lot of exploits and loophles that undermine the value of skill-based play. Not to mentioned blatant balancing issue or outright broken characters like Carno.

Ideally, from what I see Utah i supposed to be most rewarding in terms of skill ladder character. However, a lot of its advantages can be currently easily mitigated because they are not thought thru or polished in the context of the interaction with other species. For example, as mentioned before, you can stay still as Stego until pounced utah stamina runs out and kill it. The end. Cant do anything about that and his pounce wont make a dent in your health.

Judging by the past history Evrima has about 3-5 years to get to acceptable level where it worth investing time to learn stable skill patterns.

[PEEBOY]

yes, the solo utah pouncing a knowledgeable stego that knows the match up, knowing the utah is vulnerable after a pounce, will probably end up dying to the stego when it detaches. i dont think this interaction by itself is enough to say theres no skill involved in the game. this changes drastically when you introduce 1 or 2 more utahs capable of pouncing who are also harassing and baiting the stego. you can 100% out skill another player especially a player of the same species. if youre just facetanking each other it will come down to stats, but face tanking in evrima is first sign of someone who cant let go of legacy. people who facetank and play evrima as if its still legacy fail against people who dont.

idk what exploits or loopholes youre talking about, I havent seen them. if youre talking about sticking your head into trees/rocks to avoid headshot damage...i guess thats an exploit. the worst thing in combat right now by far is the desync.

[Feesh]

Originally posted by ryan:

yes, the solo utah pouncing a knowledgeable stego

Never mentioned solo. Talking about a pack here. Same applies. Yes, there can be and SHOULD be casualities when utah pack goes against bigger, stronger and meaner enemy, but it is the skill that should be a denominator here, not the outright missing balancing weights.

idk what exploits or loopholes youre talking about, I havent seen them.

Every skill-based game has a meta. It used to be an artifact of a closed, tightly designed system, but as the game development of skill-based online games progressed and evolved, meta became something that is now also carefully designed and honed. Your main goal as a gameplay designer is to make sure meta always, ALWAYS based on/formed around building blocks of skill, not lack thereof, and that any possible exploits exist within margin of error (and not as a battle-turnaround event). In The Isle Evrima, it is the latter - currently, if you try to skillmaster abilities of existing characters thinking this will bring success you will be dissapointed. Instead, to get better, you are forced to master the meta of exploits and balancing holes. And yes, while this still puts everyone on equal field (unless you are a broken Carno abusing ahole) - it just pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ experience.

[PEEBOY]

maybe if you gave examples of current exploits and balance holes or even described why you think carno is broken

[Feesh]

Originally posted by ryan:

think carno is broken

There are few issues already established by community:
* Carno has a weird issue when his bite reaches you from 20 feet away. There is plenty of threads about it. Bug or not, this gives massive advantage to the Carno and weirdly, it scales with size (i.e. the bigger the Carno the more prominent the bug).

* His movement/mobility set currently is too responsive, which diminishes Utahs ability to maneuver around him. I think he needs to be carefully tweaked even more in this regard to balance him out against smaller predators. For larger (upcoming) ones it wont matter anyway (they will be more bulkier/slower).

* Knockdown also needs to be tweaked in my opinion, especially against smaller enemies (less body mass less stun effect). Taking into account that next update will add bone fractures it is especially relevant. Right now Knockdown does 400DMG (full grown croc bite is 500) and stuns smaller enemy for quite a while - this essentially means anyone below his size is dead - adult Utah will die form knockdown + bite, considering you can put up to 3 bites - smaller Carno too. It may be fine for the latter since they are slower and bulkier in general, but small utah should be able to recover way quicker.

[PEEBOY]

i dont think this is just a carno issue. ive seen the same thing happen with deino bites and stego tails. its a desync issue across all dinos.

carnos cant turn better than a utah, even baby utahs. the carno beats the utah in speed, but the utahs maneuverability and ability to make tighter turns at higher speeds definitely exists. its how youre supposed to fight a carno as a utah. you can straight up step to the side and avoid then alt bite into their face from the side.

landing a charge isnt really that easy. your turn radius is drastically reduced and youre draining stamina much faster. charging works best when youre initiating with it and the thing youre charging doesnt even know youre there. as a utah you can avoid the charge, if you see it, by simply stepping to the side like described above.

carno doesnt seem broken to me, it seems gimped. ive played more utah than ive played carno. carno is supposed to be hunting utahs, but i often find its the opposite where I am hunting carnos. it might have decent bite force and a decent hp pool, but they are limited in their attacks. all they can do is bite.

[Feesh]

Originally posted by ryan:

i dont think this is just a carno issue. ive seen the same thing happen with deino bites and stego tails. its a desync issue across all dinos.

No you are talking about desync, with Carno this is not just desync, it is too big to be desync.

Originally posted by ryan:

icarno doesnt seem broken to me, it seems gimped. ive played more utah than ive played carno. carno is supposed to be hunting utahs, but i often find its the opposite where I am hunting carnos. it might have decent bite force and a decent hp pool, but they are limited in their attacks. all they can do is bite.

4 Adult Carnos can wipe out server easily. Once there is more than 3 and 4th one growing up, Utahs start to form megapacks and everything goes to crap. This is balancing issue.,