Killed for sport, beyond cannibalism

[PeekAndPlay]

I have no idea what sort of engagement this topic will get, but personally I feel really put off by what I can describe as nothing other than "toxic gameplay", thank you community; and rather than do nothing I thought I'd voice my opinion because frankly I want to know if something will be done about it down the line.
It is incredibly off-putting to invest hours of my time to grow a dinosaur (some up to 5 hours) only to get murdered by someone that casually decided he's going to kill you.
Not for food... no, because he wants to. The last deinosuchus I spent 5 hours growing and 10 minutes living as after having gotten fully grown has died after peacefully swimming in the river, only to see in chat "We are korean cannibals" seconds before killing me. As my body was laying there they typed "F&&& you" before I got sent back to the selection screen. These crocs had food (a previous FG croc they killed) next to them. They were not doing it for food.

Whatever, this happened. Move on. The problem, and the reason for this topic, is that this was not a once off case. Every single time I play a deinosuchus it is another deinosuchus that kills me for sport, not food; and half the time I play any carnivore I approach others of my own kind only to get killed.

Is there something in the pipeline to mitigate this toxicity?
I can't bring myself to enjoy a game that I really want to if this is just what it comes down to.

[Rusty Booper]

its not toxic at all, its pvp.

[PeekAndPlay]

Originally posted by Rustyjoker:

its not toxic at all, its pvp.

I would suppose this game is then not for me.
I'm not playing it so that I can 1vs2 2 FG deinos, unable to run away, after having spent 5 hours growing it.
I'm willing to bet this community isn't made up of people that just want to KOS everything.
There should then be PVP servers and non PVP servers, where Friendly fire (same species) is disabled, or some such.

[Tregrenos]

Currently, the only thing to do in the game is grow until you can fight the next thing in front of you. When Diets are added with the next update we'll at least have something to actively do, so that should alleviate some of the issue with bored players KOSing. Hotspots will also be less common as there will be a reason for us to stay on the move. Add to that the future Perks, Elder System and a larger variety of playables to choose from and this behavior should mellow out.

[Growler Guy]

Originally posted by PnP:

Originally posted by Rustyjoker:

its not toxic at all, its pvp.

I would suppose this game is then not for me.
I'm not playing it so that I can 1vs2 2 FG deinos, unable to run away, after having spent 5 hours growing it.
I'm willing to bet this community isn't made up of people that just want to KOS everything.
There should then be PVP servers and non PVP servers, where Friendly fire (same species) is disabled, or some such.

There is a server called Dino-mite that welcomes new players to the game, and will provide you with help, and team work, and the other players are helpful, and not a KOS server.

[bigmoe808]

As far as I know: No.

Nothing on the road map really suggest that anything will be done to discourage PvP or KoS. And I haven't been made aware of any word from the devs that they'll do something about it.

With that out the way, this isn't really toxic. Well, perhaps it would better to say that this isn't really unintended. So you were mozing along and two other crocs killed you...that's the point. This is the part were you start surviving, where you put your head on a swivel and play 4D Chess against Fate. Looking at your other comment:

Originally posted by PnP:

Originally posted by Rustyjoker:

its not toxic at all, its pvp.

I would suppose this game is then not for me.
I'm not playing it so that I can 1vs2 2 FG deinos, unable to run away, after having spent 5 hours growing it.
I'm willing to bet this community isn't made up of people that just want to KOS everything.
There should then be PVP servers and non PVP servers, where Friendly fire (same species) is disabled, or some such.

If you are a 100% full grown Deino, you have the exact same speed as the ones who killed you. You can run away. You might have to outsmart them, go on land and so forth, but escape is possible.

And there are non PvP servers-they're called Private Servers. The game as intended is meant for PvP. Asking for Non PvP servers is like asking Apex Legends to run a game where players just look for easter eggs, not saying it couldn't happen but it would be such a break in immersion from what the game actually is: A Mexican Stand Off.

[Founding Farter]

Originally posted by Rustyjoker:

its not toxic at all, its pvp.

How is someone saying "#### you" and killing you for absolutely no reason with plenty of food not toxic????? Also this game is survival pvp. The pvp part comes into play when there's an actual reason for conflict between players. Those deinos straight up just killed him for no reason and insulted him. That's straight up just toxicity at its purest.

[PeekAndPlay]

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

As far as I know: No.

Nothing on the road map really suggest that anything will be done to discourage PvP or KoS. And I haven't been made aware of any word from the devs that they'll do something about it.

With that out the way, this isn't really toxic. Well, perhaps it would better to say that this isn't really unintended. So you were mozing along and two other crocs killed you...that's the point. This is the part were you start surviving, where you put your head on a swivel and play 4D Chess against Fate. Looking at your other comment:

Originally posted by PnP:

I would suppose this game is then not for me.
I'm not playing it so that I can 1vs2 2 FG deinos, unable to run away, after having spent 5 hours growing it.
I'm willing to bet this community isn't made up of people that just want to KOS everything.
There should then be PVP servers and non PVP servers, where Friendly fire (same species) is disabled, or some such.

If you are a 100% full grown Deino, you have the exact same speed as the ones who killed you. You can run away. You might have to outsmart them, go on land and so forth, but escape is possible.

And there are non PvP servers-they're called Private Servers. The game as intended is meant for PvP. Asking for Non PvP servers is like asking Apex Legends to run a game where players just look for easter eggs, not saying it couldn't happen but it would be such a break in immersion from what the game actually is: A Mexican Stand Off.

Without being rude about it I have to say I disagree with you.
First and foremost - the fact that other players are the same speed as I am is the exact reason I can't get away as a slow-moving water dependent crocodile. I obviously tried getting away. It doesn't make a difference if the person trying to kill you can literally just keep up at the exact same pace.
I did go onto land and hid in bushes, it didn't make a difference. When a deino decides he wants to fight you and you are some meters away you would be stupid to think you could run away.

Secondly, I don't consider that as PVP, no. I consider it as toxic gameplay.
1) There is no RP in it. This is, in my personal opinion, an inherently RP survival game.
2) It is 2vs1. There is literally no chance to retaliate with 2 crocs group kill you.
3) PVP in this game, again in my opinion, should be between different species.
If you are ok with same species killing for sport as well as the rest of this community then this is not the game I wanted to play and I probably won't play much longer.
4) It wasn't a mexican stand-off.

Obviously I'm not petitioning for non-PVP servers - you're right, that would be stupid.
I'm asking for servers that have friendly fire disabled. E.g. Same species killing.
It doesn't even have to be that extreme, but honestly if there is no consequence to people being cancer then I just lose interest.

@dirtymeat thank you for the suggestion.

[Madkou]

Well, (right now) the isle is a mix of a dino sim, and a primal carnage game. The dino sim part of this game is lacking right now, so of course, more focus is going into the primal carnage type game play, and fans (or players who play it like that) love it.

I also enjoy PVP, but I agree, it needs structure, and weight to it. In the legacy version, players had to make more of the game than it was to get more out of it, unless you were just a primal carnage type player. In that case, it's primal carnage with a bigger map for them.

Don't get me wrong, the dino sim players want pvp too! Just with meaning behind it other than pew pew, and live to pew pew more. It's really all we have right now, tho? As I said, the dino sim part is still quite lacking.

The current somewhat small map works very well for them.

This leaves the dino sim folks out in the cold, ATM. But, there is more to this...Future updates are adding more to the dino sim part of the game. So, this means that (if they do it right) there should be more weight to PVP than just kill and not die.

ideally, primal carnage type players could fit into a more dino sim setup (or equal parts) but dino sim players won't fit into a primal carnage setup at all. So, ya, it's a misconception that all dino sim players don't want pvp, but they want meaning behind it. Weight to the decision, and if you're just pew pew pew, you'll have the lifespan of a fruit fly, and you'll maybe take down a few players with you lol.

Eventually, the primal carnage players will wise up and adapt, or leave. PVP is always going to be in this game, and if there's more to it than just pew pew, then that should enrich the experience, and not weigh it down for them at the same time.

The dietary system (<---maybe more for the dino sim players) perk system and elder system should be something that appeals to both kinds of players. A step in the right direction there!

Player servers will toggle this and that ON and OFF too. So, players who are more primal carnage style players will have fun on this server, and the dino sim players will have more fun on that server. What officials should be? I don't know, but player admins are a reason why players play on official servers, and for that reason alone (for some).

So, officials are gonna need to appeal to everyone. If they balance things out right between the 2 kinds of players, then, it should. :) In theory. But, others might say be one or the other, and get off the pot or piss in it too.

[Solitary Day]

I assume you're just ranting, but if you want an actual answer, I guess it's
1. Play on a server where killing isn't allowed, or it's sandbox
2. Play on a server with heavy rules and play a herbi

That's it, these are your options.
Nothing the devs could or would do would change this situation.

[Pablo Croft]

Official RP/PVE, RP/PVP, PVP servers. Players can do whatever they want -toggle whatever they want on player servers. Officials should be nothing more than templates for one style of play, or another. Then, players who prefer no player admins can be happy too. Simple.

[PeekAndPlay]

Originally posted by Madkou:

Well, (right now) the isle is a mix of a dino sim, and a primal carnage game. The dino sim part of this game is lacking right now, so of course, more focus is going into the primal carnage type game play, and fans (or players who play it like that) love it.

I also enjoy PVP, but I agree, it needs structure, and weight to it. In the legacy version, players had to make more of the game than it was to get more out of it, unless you were just a primal carnage type player. In that case, it's primal carnage with a bigger map for them.

Don't get me wrong, the dino sim players want pvp too! Just with meaning behind it other than pew pew, and live to pew pew more. It's really all we have right now, tho? As I said, the dino sim part is still quite lacking.

The current somewhat small map works very well for them.

This leaves the dino sim folks out in the cold, ATM. But, there is more to this...Future updates are adding more to the dino sim part of the game. So, this means that (if they do it right) there should be more weight to PVP than just kill and not die.

ideally, primal carnage type players could fit into a more dino sim setup (or equal parts) but dino sim players won't fit into a primal carnage setup at all. So, ya, it's a misconception that all dino sim players don't want pvp, but they want meaning behind it. Weight to the decision, and if you're just pew pew pew, you'll have the lifespan of a fruit fly, and you'll maybe take down a few players with you lol.

Eventually, the primal carnage players will wise up and adapt, or leave. PVP is always going to be in this game, and if there's more to it than just pew pew, then that should enrich the experience, and not weigh it down for them at the same time.

The dietary system (<---maybe more for the dino sim players) perk system and elder system should be something that appeals to both kinds of players. A step in the right direction there!

Player servers will toggle this and that ON and OFF too. So, players who are more primal carnage style players will have fun on this server, and the dino sim players will have more fun on that server. What officials should be? I don't know, but player admins are a reason why players play on official servers, and for that reason alone (for some).

So, officials are gonna need to appeal to everyone. If they balance things out right between the 2 kinds of players, then, it should. :) In theory. But, others might say be one or the other, and get off the pot or piss in it too.

This is a good response, thank you for it.

[bigmoe808]

Originally posted by PnP:

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

As far as I know: No.

Nothing on the road map really suggest that anything will be done to discourage PvP or KoS. And I haven't been made aware of any word from the devs that they'll do something about it.

With that out the way, this isn't really toxic. Well, perhaps it would better to say that this isn't really unintended. So you were mozing along and two other crocs killed you...that's the point. This is the part were you start surviving, where you put your head on a swivel and play 4D Chess against Fate. Looking at your other comment:



If you are a 100% full grown Deino, you have the exact same speed as the ones who killed you. You can run away. You might have to outsmart them, go on land and so forth, but escape is possible.

And there are non PvP servers-they're called Private Servers. The game as intended is meant for PvP. Asking for Non PvP servers is like asking Apex Legends to run a game where players just look for easter eggs, not saying it couldn't happen but it would be such a break in immersion from what the game actually is: A Mexican Stand Off.

Without being rude about it I have to say I disagree with you.
First and foremost - the fact that other players are the same speed as I am is the exact reason I can't get away as a slow-moving water dependent crocodile. I obviously tried getting away. It doesn't make a difference if the person trying to kill you can literally just keep up at the exact same pace.
I did go onto land and hid in bushes, it didn't make a difference. When a deino decides he wants to fight you and you are some meters away you would be stupid to think you could run away.

This is where we're going to have to dissect this with logic.

You moving at the same pace as your pursuers means that they cannot touch you so long as you keep moving. If you're arguing about this being a perpetual machine where the ones chasing you won't stop, than that's just semantics. What matters is that your opponents cannot gain on you, thus they cannot kill you, your options to escape is still relevant.

As for hiding in the bushes, that was simply a bad move on your part. Your scent tracks lead directly to your hiding spot and you gave up your advantage of distance. If you were a younger croc, this might have made some sense-in that your adults move faster than you regardless of locomotion. But you're an adult, which means you have the same speed and should've just continued to walk until they gave up or you rounded back to the river with a fresh start.

For the rest:

1. Wrong, I know you said this is your opinion and I'm grateful that you're self aware but, that is still Role Play. They were playing territorial Deinos and you were a trespasser, real life modern day crocs aren't far off
   
   
2. Also wrong. This is something you actually would've been able to do if you utilized the bush more effectively. You could have circled and killed or at least heavily injured one of them, maybe even both if you're clever enough. It's difficult, but it's plausible.
   
   
3. Aside from your opinion: On what basis? Realism? Real Crocs do this. Viability? All playables are capable if living solo. This may not be the game for you if species on species combat is a deal breaker, but picking a playable does not put you on the team of that playable.
   
   
4. That was a term I used for the game as a whole, it means: Everyone is looking after #1 and you shouldn't trust anyone but yourself.

And for the final part that was addressed to me about friendly fire.

Oh. Oh no. Oh god no. No no no no nononono. Nein. Niet.

That would be god awful and has list of problems I'll go into now.

1. To start with, the way you're putting it is basically hand holding for entire species that removes territory disputes. You just cut out an important feature of the game.
   
   
2. This also encourages Mega Packs and Herds which guarantees a multitude of unwarranted slaughter and genocide, because a numbers game eventually leads into someone's health pool going to zero no matter what you are. KoS and Toxicity would be through the roof.
   
   
3. And by far the worst is that it would destroy any semblance of intelligent combat. Even in Legacy (version before Evrima if you're new) where we had ghost bodies combat was still something that had to be handled respectfully because you could end up biting and killing your own mates. Removing friendly fire would have people dog pile with abandon and not a single care for proper positioning. That is horrible.

TL;DR: Pain is a teacher, removing it makes everyone dumber.

[PeekAndPlay]

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

Originally posted by PnP:

Without being rude about it I have to say I disagree with you.
First and foremost - the fact that other players are the same speed as I am is the exact reason I can't get away as a slow-moving water dependent crocodile. I obviously tried getting away. It doesn't make a difference if the person trying to kill you can literally just keep up at the exact same pace.
I did go onto land and hid in bushes, it didn't make a difference. When a deino decides he wants to fight you and you are some meters away you would be stupid to think you could run away.

This is where we're going to have to dissect this with logic.

You moving at the same pace as your pursuers means that they cannot touch you so long as you keep moving. If you're arguing about this being a perpetual machine where the ones chasing you won't stop, than that's just semantics. What matters is that your opponents cannot gain on you, thus they cannot kill you, your options to escape is still relevant.

As for hiding in the bushes, that was simply a bad move on your part. Your scent tracks lead directly to your hiding spot and you gave up your advantage of distance. If you were a younger croc, this might have made some sense-in that your adults move faster than you regardless of locomotion. But you're an adult, which means you have the same speed and should've just continued to walk until they gave up or you rounded back to the river with a fresh start.

For the rest:

1. Wrong, I know you said this is your opinion and I'm grateful that you're self aware but, that is still Role Play. They were playing territorial Deinos and you were a trespasser, real life modern day crocs aren't far off
   
   
2. Also wrong. This is something you actually would've been able to do if you utilized the bush more effectively. You could have circled and killed or at least heavily injured one of them, maybe even both if you're clever enough. It's difficult, but it's plausible.
   
   
3. Aside from your opinion: On what basis? Realism? Real Crocs do this. Viability? All playables are capable if living solo. This may not be the game for you if species on species combat is a deal breaker, but picking a playable does not put you on the team of that playable.
   
   
4. That was a term I used for the game as a whole, it means: Everyone is looking after #1 and you shouldn't trust anyone but yourself.

And for the final part that was addressed to me about friendly fire.

Oh. Oh no. Oh god no. No no no no nononono. Nein. Niet.

That would be god awful and has list of problems I'll go into now.

1. To start with, the way you're putting it is basically hand holding for entire species that removes territory disputes. You just cut out an important feature of the game.
   
   
2. This also encourages Mega Packs and Herds which guarantees a multitude of unwarranted slaughter and genocide, because a numbers game eventually leads into someone's health pool going to zero no matter what you are. KoS and Toxicity would be through the roof.
   
   
3. And by far the worst is that it would destroy any semblance of intelligent combat. Even in Legacy (version before Evrima if you're new) where we had ghost bodies combat was still something that had to be handled respectfully because you could end up biting and killing your own mates. Removing friendly fire would have people dog pile with abandon and not a single care for proper positioning. That is horrible.

TL;DR: Pain is a teacher, removing it makes everyone dumber.

I appreciate the response.

I did fight them. I did hurt one. He ran away so that the other croc could finish the job - does it make a difference? No. The outcome is the same, I got group killed for "the kicks".
I've not shared the precise detail of every movement here because it is literally irrelevant - but it feels like you're insisting that this was not toxic gameplay. I assure you it was. When I am told "F&&& you" right after I got killed for sport (not territorial as you suggested as I RAN AWAY), I regard that as toxic gameplay. It wasn't RP in any sense of the word. I'm honestly baffled that you don't understand that.
1) I'm sure there are crocs out there that eat each other for the "kicks". As stated above I literally ran for my life the moment I saw them. The moment they saw me they set out to FOLLOW and kill me. If you're going to insist this was territorial I'll have to insist you're arguing to argue.
2) I did injure them. But ask yourself, like honestly, does it make a difference?
3) Fine, I'll concede that same species "PVP" can/should be a thing. But for my own taste there should be some degree of reasoning behind it, other than "YOU DED MAKE SMILE ON ME". I very much doubt the devs wanted same species to just KOS all of their own kind for "kicks". Regardless, I'm not going to change that. I've found that deinos collect up most of the, what I would consider as, toxic players in this community. Therefore I won't play deino any longer.
4) Ok. This going to sound rude and I apologize, but that is nowhere near what it means. Though I now understand what you wanted to say.

I don't much care for what sort of solution they would implement to prevent players from just needlessly kill each other. Personally I find it such a shame that this sort of game is subjected to the masses of people that just want "YOU MAD, I KILL YOU DED" players. Seems like you're fine with it. As my friend told me, the only power I have is to stop playing.

[Bunzmaster]

I feel you OP. I'm not a fan of killing on site so I try and play on more RP servers with Rules. Even then though you still have players that will try and bum rush you.

It's the RP as a Dino that has drawn me to this game. You're drinking and another dino comes to drink aswell. You both see each other. You 1 call to feel them out. They 3 call aggressively. You got a choice: 3 call back as a challenge or back off.

Though even in RP servers you get those players that will see you, not answer your calls, pretend like they're not interested and then as soon as you back off they'll try and bumrush you. Worse yet, they're all using VC so you can't even hear them make any noise. I get that this game has PvP elements so I try and get on servers that discourage KOS or Killing for Sport.

It's getting to the point where I am beginning to play The Isle the same way I used to play DayZ....avoid all strangers.

[Madkou]

This may help ya more than my other post, OP

I agree, they don't need an extra sound for the chat sound if it happens as intended during chat. :) You chat, you make a chat sound, the end. I like the respectful sound idea! Not friendly, there is a difference, after all.

One is the friendly 2 call (again, as intended), join my group! The R respect call is a truce, but actions can speak otherwise.

Of course, this also means that players can use that respectful call to lull players into a false sense of security. Thankfully, most players that I've encountered don't do that lol, but some do, so players need to be aware of that, too. Like: OK, your respectful, but I'm watching you type thing.

To wrap that up, we need a button to say, "I'm respecting your space, don't attack, but I don't want to join your group. lol"

Respectful sound is one thing, but action will always be another. It needs to be first and foremost on a player's mind. Just like in legacy when someone 2 called ya. They may mean it, or they just want you to let them get close enough to bite. So, again, keeping the distance rule is always paramount until they join your group.

if a player isn't hostile towards you right away, and sound off the respect sound, OK. But, given the opportunity, they might if they linger near you.

Mix-herds weren't a problem that way. I mean, they couldn't actually join your group, but they weren't plotting to kill and eat you, neither. xD

If you wanna make a guide with that info, go for it man. :) I don't need credit, it's enough for me to know that players are on the same page, and not getting cheap-shotted in situations where they were too trusting. But, also teaching them not to be too paranoid so random groups can still happen for them lol.