Growth times should be much shorter

[Bomber Rex]

Tldr: looks like the insanely long growth times are coming back. 5-6 hours for a dino that can die in 10 seconds. We see this trend for deino and stego its only going to continue until apexes.
Growth times should encourage the player to try not to die but as we see in legacy and soon evirma these ridiculously long growth times just frustratingly punish players and encourage meta-gaming (discord vc, nesting, turning on gamma)

I never understood why growth time were always made so long. Waiting 4-5 hours for a stego or 6 hours for an apex which will come later in evirma is a lot don't you think? In a game where you can die in a few seconds in really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ways like kos cannibalism for herbivores.

Knowing the devs the growth times might even be increased when the diet system comes out.

I never understood their decision making. WHY SO LONG. Even with bush-simulator™ supposedly going away with the diet system it still feels like as an adult dino (this applies to carnivores) yes I can go to this slightly crowded location where I can interact with other players and you know have fun and play the game but that means die.

Die is not a problem. Its the insane amount of hours needed to regain that loss time that acts more like a frustrating punishment than an incentive to try not to die.

I think things like utah are in the right direction. 90 minutes for a creature that can seriously wound other dinos much larger than its weight class when played skillfully in packs. Being able to harass and take down stegos and deinos albeit with a lot of difficulty and caution is something this game needs more of.

[brownie689]

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

Originally posted by brownie689:

Imagine trying to defend having to waste 6-8 hours to grow your dino before you start playing the game for real. In my opinion growing your dino is NOT fun and is NOT part of the game or considered gameplay. It is BORING and TEDIOUS.

The game doesn't even start for the vast majority of us until our dino is fully grown.

Imagine wasting 6 hrs in a bush instead of just playing the game. Active Growths are very much so part of the game, and they're anything but boring-tedious is a matter of perspective.

The vast majority of you need to figure out who to grow on the move then.

You must have never played this game before if that's what you think. Active growth is the quickest way to get yourself killed. You are too slow to run away and too weak to fight back.

That's why literally everyone sits in a bush to grow.

[xXDruidXx]

Why do so many think that you have to play for 5+ hours straight? Just log in for an hour, log off, return another time.

I agree that they need to make the juvi stage more interesting and encourage active growth, without making the death chance too high.
However, they are already working on that and once they have growing should be a more enjoyable part of the experience.

For those who just want to log in, play a big creature to fight everything etc, then it sounds like you're looking for a deathmatch or free-grows server. They're not hard to find if that's more your pace :)

-

For many the time growing, sneaking around, being hunted etc is enjoyable. So they play survival. It's not a waste of time because they enjoy exploring, surviving and beating the odds.
For some they prefer to log in, play as a large carnivore and reign havoc, if so play a free-grows etc.

Evrima is the horror-survival strain of the game.
I'm sure there'll be plenty of faster-growth options in future (there's already many servers for it).

[bigmoe808]

Originally posted by brownie689:

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

Imagine wasting 6 hrs in a bush instead of just playing the game. Active Growths are very much so part of the game, and they're anything but boring-tedious is a matter of perspective.

The vast majority of you need to figure out who to grow on the move then.

You must have never played this game before if that's what you think. Active growth is the quickest way to get yourself killed. You are too slow to run away and too weak to fight back.

That's why literally everyone sits in a bush to grow.

I have grown active Gigas. I know other players that have grown active Gigas. If you're on top of your game and vigilant of your surroundings while planning ahead, it's not impossible.

Bush camping is a choice.

Choose to be better than yourself.

[bigmoe808]

Originally posted by Starentius:

Originally posted by Shinengun:

If you have job and even more if you have job and family , watching screen for 6 ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hours ( T-Rex for example) is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ridiculous and everyone who are trying to defend this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ are just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ with a lot of free time. Better play anything else than this game. Seriously I love this game, is the best of survival dino games on the market but growing times are idiotic and punish player every way because if you growed apex and died you know u just lost ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ six hours or even more for a stupid game and? And yeah that's it you lost your time, you lost part of your life for nothing, I prefer to lose gear in survival games than my ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ time, at least it looks less painful.

I have a job, and family. I barely have any freetime.
And i think the growthtimes should be way more, not 5 hours for a deino more like 5 days.
Yea it will take me a month or two to grow one but still.

PS. Being angry and trowing insults around, just caus everyone doesnt agree with you doesnt make your argument stronger rather the opposite.
:)

5 days?

Mmm. Nah.

2. The original 48 hr, assuming the growth is endless.

That or 12 hours like what a Rex, Giga, and Trike should be.

[Starentius]

Originally posted by brownie689:

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

Imagine wasting 6 hrs in a bush instead of just playing the game. Active Growths are very much so part of the game, and they're anything but boring-tedious is a matter of perspective.

The vast majority of you need to figure out who to grow on the move then.

You must have never played this game before if that's what you think. Active growth is the quickest way to get yourself killed. You are too slow to run away and too weak to fight back.

That's why literally everyone sits in a bush to grow.

Never played the game? i cant talk for him but i share his point and i have over a 1000 hours.
Also no one i know sits in a bush growing.
Just learn to play the early game and you will have so much more fun with the game.

[Humpenstilzchen]

+1
It´s the main reason why I don´t play this otherwise great game anymore. It´s just not worth it to invest that many hours until your dino is big enough to do anything at all and then die from bad luck.

No thanks.

[Pharaoh]

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

Originally posted by brownie689:

Growth times should be decreased across the board. It would not affect the game at all since everyone grows faster equally. The only thing it would change is to make people play the game more instead of trying to avoid fights with other players for fear of losing their 5-8 hours dino.

Yes it would, it would make it so that bigger and stronger playables would flood the servers even worse than they did in Legacy. Saying that everyone else will get their weaker playables back faster is not a consolation for the fact that they still have to compete against animals who are suppose to be rare.

People need to be afraid of losing their 8 hr progress, without it they take more unnecessary risk and meaningless sacrifice because they'll just get it back in record speed. Suiciding into whatever they come across because there is no meaningful consequence, it would be a Sand Box Blood Bath with no semblance of a functioning ecosystem.

Originally posted by brownie689:

It would actually make the game more enjoyable for everyone.

It would make the game trash for everyone.

I agree with this response 100%. Lets take it back to 2016-2017. During this stage, 50% of players on V3 servers were either rocking an overpowered herbivore (Shant or trike), or an Apex predator (rex, giga, or spino). And yes, although there were utah packs, carno pairs, and other groups, most of the playerbase would just pick the biggest dino. This was the biggest game destroyer for me, as it would feel as if there was no real ecosystem balance. Not to mention the fact that there were bodies everywhere that you could scavenge for your entire playthrough. All in all, it was a really boring, uninteresting experience.

Honestly though, I believe this is why Realism during that time took off as its own server type/sub genre of The Isle. At first glance, it seemed really strict on the rules bearing on everyones existence, but over time, it really ended up being its own Era in the game. The guidelines controlled the ecosystem succesfully, even considering that progression was easier during though times.

[Pharaoh]

Originally posted by Shade:

Growth times are way too long when this game is filled to the brim with bugs that can kill your dino in the blink of an eye. Not to mention hacking and cheaters are starting to become more prevalent than ever. I could understand if this was a fully fleshed out game but no this is a game that is severely lacking in mechanics. Until they can get a hold on bugs, lag, rubberbanding, cannibalism, and the cheaters the growth times should be reduced. But that isn't going to happen because time and time again the devs of this game show us that they have a Know-it-all attitude and whatever they do is right and us consumers dont know wtf we are talking about. We should just shutup and be thankful that they have blessed us with this buggy mess of a game. They may not come out and say that directly but actions speak louder than words

go play beast of bermuda then. (In the least insulting way possible). I dont want to come on The Isle, a game thats more refined, and have to deal with an easy survival, scavenging-to-survive experience.

[DoctorOjama]

Originally posted by CMDR Kel'Draga:

You spend too much time sitting around only to be offed by a cannibal or a pair of idiots hunting for sport instead of food.
Its unbalanced currently. I check back every update to see if anything interesting popped up but this game is still a bush hiding sim.

your playing the game wrong if you sit around find a group of friends and run around the map ♥♥♥♥ around enjoy yourselves stop worrying about dying

[Pharaoh]

Originally posted by brownie689:

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

Yes it would, it would make it so that bigger and stronger playables would flood the servers even worse than they did in Legacy. Saying that everyone else will get their weaker playables back faster is not a consolation for the fact that they still have to compete against animals who are suppose to be rare.

People need to be afraid of losing their 8 hr progress, without it they take more unnecessary risk and meaningless sacrifice because they'll just get it back in record speed. Suiciding into whatever they come across because there is no meaningful consequence, it would be a Sand Box Blood Bath with no semblance of a functioning ecosystem.


It would make the game trash for everyone.

NO.... it would make the game FUN for everyone. You act like if every dino grows much faster it would be nothing but ape dinos..... that's how Legacy is already with the 8 hour growth. Long grow times doesn't stop people from playing apex dinos. It DOES stop them from enjoying the game though. Instead of acting like an apex dino and hunting/getting into fights constantly they instead stick in big groups and only attack players who are already injured from a previous fight or players who already have a body.

This is actually a HUGE problem in legacy. 2 groups of apex players will team up over discord. What they do is one group will 3 call you off a body. If you accept the challenge they fight and kill you. If you give up the body they take your body and the second apex group immediately rushes in to kill you before you can leave the area.

This happens CONSTANTLY.

Long growth times just results in cowardly behavior, cheating, teaming up with other packs and doing literally anything to keep your dino alive because it took 8 hours to grow.


There is a very simple solution to many of these problems. Much shorter growth times for ALL dinos. You will be far less likely to result to these cowardly tactics and cheating if your dino only takes 2 hours to grow instead of 8 hours.

You will be more likely to hunt other apex dinos.

You will get into fights more often that you might not win so easily.

You won't run away like a coward after taking a single bite like a lot of players do.

You won't run away and log out every time you see another apex or apex pack walking towards you.


Majority of players act like total cowards because they are terrified of losing their 8 hour dino.

They sit around the watering hole and talk in global until another apex shows up and then they run away and log out.

Dude, so basically you just want a carnage simulator... If you only want the combat/hunting aspect of the game, go play something else. part of surviving IS fleeing when you're hurt, hiding when you're in the midst of danger, and not challenging obviously stronger dinosaurs just for hell of it. The real issue with alot what you mentioned, is that people currently arent trading in enough valuable energy to appreciate their playables.

Lets be hypothetical here, lets say one person gets rich off of winning the lottery, whilst the other learns business and succeeds that way. The business man will manage the money in a smarter way, and make a better attempt to understand what they will do BEFORE they do it. Yet the person who gets rich off the lottery, will buy up everything in sight, go broke, then do it all again if they could. This is what its like with different players in this game. There's ones who just view their dinos as characters, that give short lived enjoyment, and others who view them more as an organism with the means to survive, in an organized, skillful way. And I'll tell you now, NOBODY who wants to SURVIVE finds it fun if they are in the position to die to other players that just want to PLAY

[Pharaoh]

Originally posted by Terrorsaur:

Originally posted by brownie689:

It's laughable that a bunch of you people think that faster growth times would create more apex dinos on the server. NO IT WILL NOT.

Would you like to know why?

Because apex dinos hunt each other. So no matter how fast you can grow an apex, everyone else can grow them just as fast as you and hunt you.

you are not saying what you think you are.

you just gave the very reason that everyone would be apex as the reason no one would go apex.

also the reason why such free grows servers are deathmatches rather than survivals.

Lol this dude you responded to must've never played The Isle during any time sandbox was around. In sandbox gamemode every dinosaur is instantaneously obtained, requiring no skill. and, EVERY SINGLE SANDBOX SERVER ended up being a deathmatch one, with everyone killing eachother, and definitely killing you for sport if they were faster, stronger, and generally more powerful without earning those perks.

[Pharaoh]

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

Originally posted by brownie689:

NO.... it would make the game FUN for everyone. You act like if every dino grows much faster it would be nothing but ape dinos..... that's how Legacy is already with the 8 hour growth. Long grow times doesn't stop people from playing apex dinos. It DOES stop them from enjoying the game though. Instead of acting like an apex dino and hunting/getting into fights constantly they instead stick in big groups and only attack players who are already injured from a previous fight or players who already have a body.

Not for people who aren't picking the apexi, it would hot garbage to keep coming across them if you trying to play as something middle of the road like an Allo. You act as if Legacy is as worse as it could get and the shortening the timers won't affect this. That isn't the case because Sand Box is way more ♥♥♥♥♥♥ by comparison and you're just dragging Survival closer to it.

Long growth times keeps full adult apexi from roaming the server for 5-6 hour so, it leaves them vulnerable for other players to stop them from achieving adulthood, and it deters players who know this from trying.

What stops players from enjoying it is bush camping, and that's something you can just as easily avoid doing by learning to move quietly around the server-I've done it and I know people who've done it.

Originally posted by brownie689:

This is actually a HUGE problem in legacy. 2 groups of apex players will team up over discord. What they do is one group will 3 call you off a body. If you accept the challenge they fight and kill you. If you give up the body they take your body and the second apex group immediately rushes in to kill you before you can leave the area.

This happens CONSTANTLY.

And you want there to be more Apexi who can abuse this? Explain that logic, brownie, multiple groups of Apexi working together to curbstomp solo Apexi...and you want them to get their dinosaurs faster? That doesn't fix the problem, ironically, you need to do the opposite. Legacy growth for Rex is half as long as it should be.

Originally posted by brownie689:

Long growth times just results in cowardly behavior, cheating, teaming up with other packs and doing literally anything to keep your dino alive because it took 8 hours to grow.

In other words, Long Growths result in Thinking, Planning, Weighing Your Options, Strategy, Things That Require More Thought Process Than Press W And Click Left Mouse and many more that doesn't lead into apexi destroying the ecosystem. Cheaters are always present, regardless, and giving them their dinosaurs faster is just giving them the keys to the kingdom.

To handle cheaters, you come up with mechanics that target cheating.

Originally posted by brownie689:

There is a very simple solution to many of these problems. Much shorter growth times for ALL dinos. You will be far less likely to result to these cowardly tactics and cheating if your dino only takes 2 hours to grow instead of 8 hours.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. If I were a cheater, getting my dinosaur faster is not going to stop me from cheating. Cheating as you're describing is still the easiest way to maintain power over the server and now I'll have a way to do that even more.

What changed is that no one is nearly as bothered by death. It doesn't hold the same lvl of consequence. Suicide is a convenient pass time and Survival takes a nose dive towards who gives a ♥♥♥♥.

Originally posted by brownie689:

You will be more likely to hunt other apex dinos.

You will get into fights more often that you might not win so easily.

You won't run away like a coward after taking a single bite like a lot of players do.

You won't run away and log out every time you see another apex or apex pack walking towards you.

Several things to unpack here

1. If you didn't have the courage or knowledge to hunt other apexi as an apexi, you shouldn't be playing apexi. And I don't mean that as a discouragement to new apexi players, but there's zero reason to give you the dinosaur that can have a huge impact on the ecosystem by presence alone faster.
   
   
2. You'll take stupid and unnecessary fights, noted.
   
   
3. Wounds mean nothing and neither does having the experience to manage those wounds and stay calm under fire, duely noted.
   
   
4. Because death doesn't matter and you'll probably still bush camp for another two hours before logging off completely and have a full Rex in the next session.

Everything you're saying is Sand Box Logic. There's no inkling of surviving or getting better at surviving via experience. The entire point in having a shorter growth can boiled to "forgive my mistakes, take any real punishment out that might discourage me from making more".

Originally posted by brownie689:

Majority of players act like total cowards because they are terrified of losing their 8 hour dino.

They sit around the watering hole and talk in global until another apex shows up and then they run away and log out.

That can be taken in to ways. First is that they don't know better and need experience. Second is that they do know better and are opting out from destroying the ecosystem because they value their growths.

Ok, we need to clear the elephant in the room. Legacy's greatest strength is variety and familiarity. More options and people take comfort in doing as they've always been doing for...3, 4? Four years. But. There's still a lot of ♥♥♥♥ ups in Legacy that mess with balance and affect behavior.

Example-Global Chat. That mechanic which turns The Isle into a chatroom and gives a form of entertainment outside of exploring. It's a like an escape from having to play the game.

Originally posted by brownie689:

It's laughable that a bunch of you people think that faster growth times would create more apex dinos on the server. NO IT WILL NOT.

Would you like to know why?

Because apex dinos hunt each other. So no matter how fast you can grow an apex, everyone else can grow them just as fast as you and hunt you.

...

...Let me see if I got this straight. Short Growth times won't create more Apexi. It won't because-if people pick apexi to abuse the population-more people will pick apexi to fight them. Right?



🤦‍♂️🤦‍♀️🤦

https://youtu.be/XZxzJGgox_E

This IS Sand Box Logic.

"That Guy Killed Me, I'mma get an Rex to kill him"

"Oh no, now they're getting a Rex to kill me-I'll keep getting Rex to kill them"

"Now our allies are getting Rexes-now we're all Rex"

"The Rex is Dead-LONG LIVE THE REX!"

Originally posted by brownie689:

The only difference that short growth times would make is to make the game more enjoyable for everyone.

If everyone wants to play sand box, sure.

Originally posted by brownie689:

More hunting, more fighting, more risky tactics, less cowards afraid to lose 8 hours of progress, more packs getting into fights with each other.

More kos, spawn camping, suicide runs, bad tactics, megapacks, over all needless violence.

Originally posted by brownie689:

Literally more of everything that people play this game for.

I didn't get The Isle to play in a broken ecosystem, that is what most people expected of the game at minimum.

Originally posted by brownie689:

Again I find it laughable that you people think short growth times would magically create a ton of apex dinos roaming around.

Did you forget that your solution to Apexi was to give everyone the ability to spawn more Apexi and fight the original Apexi in an ecosystem where losing your Apexi is not as punished as it is now.

Originally posted by brownie689:

You completely forget the FACT that other apex will hunt them.

Well my last question was just answered and the irony is sad.

dude, every explanation you made was right on point, and you absolutely owned this guy, whether or not it was your intention to do so.

[Pharaoh]

Originally posted by Shade:

Originally posted by Gustave:

if the game was to easy it would get boring fast .. the point of it is survival.. and remember it is nowhere near finished.

Longer growth times is an extremely lazy and unhealthy way to increase difficulty, Especially since theres workarounds by being on discord, forming mega packs, or just AFK'ing in a bush. A healthy alternative would be actually making the game have more mechanics, instead of making everything take forever to grow so by the time a new player realizes this game isnt for them once theyve finally got something to full growth it's too late to refund the game.
I'd argue that reduced growth times wouldn't even make the game easier you would just get fully experience the game sooner instead of hiding out are just sitting someplace with a group of friends waiting to grow.
Also whats difficult about camping in a bush or just sitting with a group of ppl slowly waiting to grow? i dont see the correlation

I think this is what the devs are getting to bro. For a while as most of us bear witnessed, survival in a multiplayer game like The Isle only happened in two ways, AFK in a bush for most of the time, or grow up with other players with the same goals as you. But now as more development is coming into the game, not only are we getting more raw gameplay options such as new dinos, but we're also filling the space in between by offering mechanics such as diets.

[Puppet Pal Clem]

I agree with OP 200%. There is absolutely no need for the 4-6 hour growth time. We want to feel like we are playing a video game, this game can as stressful as a financial endeavor such as investing and watching the stock falls. I'd rather be able to mess around, adventure, and not get super angry when i die when i spend 6 hours for full growth and then only being able to experience 20 minutes- 1 hour heck even 1 day of it... and then being asked to do it all over again with no reassurance that you'll die soon atfer obtaining or even being 20 minutes from being adult and then being killed, and then being asked to do it again. And all we do is hide to not die.

The diet system and being forced away from bush meta will actually make things worse. Now we will be walking around for 4-6 hours and get killed by players who aren't even hungry or players who wanna get as many bodies in a pile to hoard. In real life predators only killed to defend territory or when they were hungry. Humans behind these dinosaurs do human things such as griefing, betraying for no reason other than for a quick laugh at the expense of many hours of growing, killing just because, not even for food or anything, just because they like killing.

I doubt they are going to change it. They are just gonna attract a very niche audience even within the dinosaur enthusiasts communities.

[xXDruidXx]

Originally posted by How To disappear Completely:

I doubt they are going to change it. They are just gonna attract a very niche audience even within the dinosaur enthusiasts communities.

I imagine they'll just make a separate gamemode for faster-paced combat/sandbox/death-match.