Review of the isle. maybe someone needs to read this. Maybe lock this before it becomes something bad please?

[Stoltverd]

Let me start by saying I'm not trying to bash the game or the developers.
I really think they have tried their best, but i think that's not enough.
I know how hard it is to work super hard on something an see negative things said about it, but I also know it's worse to be blind to it's defects and one day seeing them and realizing there is no fix for them.
This is no personal attack.
This is not my way of bashing this game... I'm a game designer myself. I want this to get good and fun. Hell... This app is BEAUTIFUL!!!!
I simply think this is shoddy work and can be better, should be better... Sorry.
Remember also that I'm not criticizing your tastes. If you like this, all the power to you!
I'm also sorry if this sound sarcastic or cynical...
I'm aware that's how I sometimes sound when I make long texts. That's not what I was intending if that was the case. So sorry. I'm afraid I'm getting banned.
I have to say some positive stuff before saying all that’s wrong with this app:
The graphics are beautiful.
The shaders awesome.
The animations? BEAUTIFULLY MADE. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, SOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOD.
The sounds? OH MY ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ GOD. So good.
Sadly… everything else (and I mean everything else) is bad:

Short version

Do not buy this game. it's not a game. It's barely a toy. It's a chatroom. With dinosaur avatars. The administrators of private servers are petty and bad, and the developers are petty and can't take criticism. Also, I don't think they know much about design.

Long version (really long)

"The Isle is intended to be a gritty, open-world survival horror game. Explore vast landscapes of dense forest and open plains, traverse treacherous mountains and wade through dark swamps where horrors lurk. Hidden within are ruins that hold insight as to what came before. Through it all, keep in mind there is only one goal: survive.

There is little in the way of hand holding or ulterior precepts to alter play styles or purpose. It's kill or be killed. In the end, the only one you can trust is yourself. Over the course of development the islands and their inhabitants will radically change, ever-evolving as players themselves learn how to flourish and thrive. Your mistakes will be punished. Expect no survivors."

That's what the store says... And it's all lies, or at the very least, it's wrong.
The only horror element present is that other players can kill you. You don't see League of Legends calling itself a horror game, do you?
You see, horror is a delicate mix of atmosphere and complementary game mechanics. The isle doesn't have that.
And by definition... It's not a game:

In "Game Design Workshop", Tracy Fullerton defines a game as "a closed, formal system that engages players in a structured conflict and resolves its uncertainty in an unequal outcome."

In "The Art of Game Design", Jesse Schell defines it as "a game is a problem-solving activity, approached with a playful attitude."

In "Game Design Theory", Keith Burgun says it's "a system of rules in which agents compete by making ambiguous, endogenously meaningful decisions."

And finally Bernard Suits in "The Grasshopper" has my favorite definition: "To play a game is to attempt to achieve a specific state of affairs, using only means permitted by rules, where the rules prohibit use of more efficient in favor of less efficient means, and where the rules are accepted just because they make possible such activity."

A toy on the other hand is just something you can make games with. Dices for example, Lego pieces, action figures etc are toys.

What I just said is game design theory. It's VERY basic. Basically, the first thing you are thought in any game design course or college.

It seems however that the developers of "The Isle" don't know much about game design.
Here are no rules. In fact, rules are made up by server admins. Should a specific species of dinosaur be able to group in a pack of 5-10 members? PPPPFFFF NO IDEA. Read the rules of the server. The game won't tell you, sometimes not even on the welcome page of a server. The game has NO SYSTEM of enforcing rules. A proximity meter with a hidden timer to know if players are forming packs of "x" dinos? nope. Maybe a group system that lets you add members and it checks the member species and won't let you add more members after a certain number? NOPE.
The game has NO GAMEPLAY.
Exploration? Nope. There are no interesting landmarks. A building you can't enter there, something like a lighthouse here, a radio tower there and that's it.
Lore? nope. Not in game at least.
Interactions? Nope.
Points? Nope nope.
Surely they are at least ruined and the design shows that a mutant magical alien dinosaur was there... or anything interesting happened, right? Again... Nope.
There is no point in exploring. There is no "Files", there are no "Audios" section in your menu.
There no combat except for PvP, and that SUPER limited. I mean... You can bite. Normally you kill in a few bites sometimes even one. Get killed in as few bites.
Oh and no NPCs. No humans, no NPC dinos, no NPC monsters, no NPC. So the isle is mostly an empty place.

let me tell you what's the current "game cycle":

• You spawn.
  
• You walk for 30 IRL minutes and start starving or being dehydrated. (It doesn't affect "gameplay" in any way. If either meter gets to 0, you die)
  
• You find a lake or a water body. (That's where most people are)
  
• You drink or get killed.
  
• If you're carnivore you kill a player or seek a carcass and eat. Or you get killed.
  
• If you’re a herbivore you seek a plant you can eat (you can only eat special plants) or you get killed.
  
• You go find a bush, crouch and go afk until you need to eat or drink again. And you get killed if found.
  
• You grow (you need to click a button that says grow) and after being an adult for a while, if you haven’t gotten yourself killed, then you still die after some time.

”OMG YOU’RE SUCH A TROLL, YOU ONLY WANT TO BASH THE GAME. THIS WON’T HAPPEN AFTER THE RECODE, THE EVRIMA UPDATE WILL FIX EVERYTHING. YOU’RE NOT WELL INFORMED”
Says the bad community member…

See… Still no major things changed. It’s getting a nice new paintjob yes… But still no gameplay or major changes.
Yes, now you’ll be able to graze as a herbivore.
Yes, now there’s a collision system.
Yes, there are new shaders and animations.
Yes, growth is now automatic and seamless.
So what? There is no gameplay, no meaning in exploration, no fun except if you make up a game like a kid in the playground with a toy! That’s not bad, but this is being sold as a HORRROR SURVIVAL GAME, and IT’S NOT THAT!

After talking about “the mystical recode”, let me tell you about updates, after saying that the recode took so long it became a meme to say “RECODE WHEN?”. Like more than a year. Now to the details about updates:

Almost all the “game systems” have been updated multiple times. Sorry, when I say updated I mean redesigned.
Yup… I haven’t even talked about core mechanics. I said there is no gameplay. So what do I mean redesigning the “game systems”.
Well… That what the developers call the “game cycle” I described before.
Yes. [/b]SINCE DECEMBER 1 OF 2015[/b] they haven’t added A SINGLE GAMEPLAY MECHANIC[/]
They however have done this:

• Make it so you can’t choose your dino. This was abused by admins and developers to pander content creators and be corrupt. Private server administrators actually charged you to transform you into the dino you wanted, and developers gave exclusive dinos (type h or whatever) to content creators so they could troll and kill players and promote the game. Growth took hours by the way. (It still does) If you died, go ahead and start again.
  
• Change it so you still couldn’t choose what dino to play, but you need to unlock them. Yup, something as core as a progression system wasn’t in from the beginning… And it wouldn’t last!!!!
  
• Change it so now you could play as any dino. Except as type H. Those are for content creators.

Did I mention you could choose a faction? That you can play as human? Like the store page says? No? That’s because you can’t. You can see the button tho… Greyed out… Since it was introduced at least 4 years ago.

Other updates have included very important things like finetuning stamina consumption, breathing sounds, changing how the turn animation looks and works with movement, changing health values, balancing… Etc…
I of course am being sarcastic because one would expect the developers prioritize gameplay mechanics. Specially because balancing values, consumption of stamina, hunger and thirst etc is a complete waste of time if you don’t have in-game systems that use them and interact with them other than sprinting and biting.

I think I’ve made my point about gameplay so let’s talk about the community.
It’s bad. It’s really really REALLY bad.
It’s “Start Citizen” bad.
It’s like a cult.
You don’t like the game? Get flamed and get banned.
You are criticizing like me or giving a negative review? Get bashed and possibly banned. (I’ll update if I get banned. If I’m not banned, I won’t say a thing, so assume I’m not banned unless stated at the start of the review. I’m taking care of following community guidelines so you know if I get banned it’s because of this review.)
Are you asking gameplay questions or questioning development choices? TRUST THE DEVS. (This is an actual phrase used by the cult)
Are you a content creator? Expect special treatment, special dinos and getting updates before any other player AS LONG AS YOU SAY POSITIVE THINGS ABOUT THE ISLE. If you say anything negative, EVEN AS A JOKE, you’ll get vetoed and will be asked to ridicule yourself and issue a formal and public apology.
You’re constantly told that any person that doesn’t think the game is great is misinformed or a troll.

Oh yes… I wasn’t lying or exaggerating when I said cult. That’s literally how a cult operates:
Really, JUST AS A CULT[www.cultwatch.com]

Still don’t believe me? Or maybe you’re about to tell me that it’s only private server administrators that are bad? Maybe that it used to happen but not anymore?
Take a look at this videos and the time they were uploaded:
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKO631doIyc
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_28eXEaVM_o


That’s all…
I won’t be answering bullies, flammers, toxic members etc.
In fact I may not answer. I don’t want to start a fight. I only want to let people know what this app (again, no game) is. I want to warn people, and maybe if I’m lucky, get a cult member to “awaken”.

Have an awesome day.

[MattWard]

Not gonna bother with anything else except your worries about being banned.
You most likely won't be banned for creating a steam discussion. Plenty of people have come and gone criticizing the hell out of the game and the devs, and very few got banned.
I doubt Pesky will get banned, considering how he did apologize to the devs for "flamebaiting".

[MegaDave]

Where the hell to even start with this?

*scrolls down*

"maybe if I'm lucky, get a cult member to "awaken"".

Best not to start; my opinion will likely be viewed as a cultist perspective which is a negative connotation to OP.

[Shot'em]

You are a bold one, I must say. I'll admit, your opinions are rather far removed from my own but what you say has some measure of merit to it. That said, to come into the forums leading with the statement "I'm not trying to bash the game" is just an invitation for trouble. I definitely understand that it is not your desire to do so, but all I have to say is that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I bid you well, and hope nothing ill befalls you due to this.

[Uollie]

I honestly don't even play this game really yet. I just happened to check up on it at the right time before the new update so I've been paying attention just these past few days.

I haven't engaged in the community at all so I don't know a thing about them nor the devs, therefore I shouldn't be in your so-called cult category either. With that said, I will say that whoever that Pesky guy is, he isn't really winning me over with his arguments. The dude came off like a snarky ♥♥♥♥ IMO, and yeah the voices I heard from the dev (the one guy specifically) came off a pretty immature as well, but I still feel for them because I can only imagine how much ♥♥♥♥ devs put up with from communities.

Now his feedback really wasn't that harsh or disrespectful, but it definitely still was to some degree. I don't see why the content creator could not have just provided his same feedback without the sass and disrespect. It costs nothing to just make a short and to the point video that tells the dev team "I respect your design choices, but I strongly think you are making a mistake by not giving ankylosaurus the attention I think it deserves, and here's why" and not make a 19 minute youtube video filled with snide comments that do more to belittle the devs competency than getting his opinion across.

I actually agreed with his points pretty much completely too, but he sold it so poorly. If that video was literally Pesky's first "violation" then I think the devs could benefit from some thicker skin, but I'm on their side that it's probably annoying to be 24/7 told by non game devs how to dev your own game. However, I've seen game devs invite content creators who openly bashed them on their podcasts to come ask them questions on stream. I have a lot of respect for that game dev because he remained professional and focused on the toxic content creators actually good feedback. It's a tough job for sure, but being the bigger person when you're the person with all the power can go a long way in small communities like this.

Of course don't just let people walk all over you, if someone has crossed way over a line, then yeah ban them obviously. I just don't think being a snarky content creator is reason enough to punish them.

If this were an AITA reddit post, I'd say everyone sucks here. Everyone make up and chill. And to OP, I disagreed with everything you said btw about The Isle being an app and not a game. If only it were so easy to define a game with a definition, but gatekeeping what is considered a game or not seems pretty fruitless when you know there's people in here who have hundreds and even thousands of hours played. I've played lots of Dayz and boring running simulators, I'll happily do it again as a dinosaur this time.

[Kami]

Should've just put this as a review. More new players would see it and less toxic players who would just flamebait.

Originally posted by MattDude:

Not gonna bother with anything else except your worries about being banned.
You most likely won't be banned for creating a steam discussion. Plenty of people have come and gone criticizing the hell out of the game and the devs, and very few got banned.
I doubt Pesky will get banned, considering how he did apologize to the devs for "flamebaiting".

Worth it to point out that Pesky didn't actually apologise to the devs for flamebaiting, he apologised to Bryan for all the ♥♥♥♥ he got after the video dropped. He explicitly stated he wasn't going to apologise for anything else because he didn't actually do anything else. I doubt they could even ban Pesky, not in a way that mattered.

[velocitation]

Originally posted by Zoinks but loving but in season:

Should've just put this as a review. More new players would see it and less toxic players who would just flamebait.

Originally posted by MattDude:

Not gonna bother with anything else except your worries about being banned.
You most likely won't be banned for creating a steam discussion. Plenty of people have come and gone criticizing the hell out of the game and the devs, and very few got banned.
I doubt Pesky will get banned, considering how he did apologize to the devs for "flamebaiting".

Worth it to point out that Pesky didn't actually apologise to the devs for flamebaiting, he apologised to Bryan for all the ♥♥♥♥ he got after the video dropped. He explicitly stated he wasn't going to apologise for anything else because he didn't actually do anything else. I doubt they could even ban Pesky, not in a way that mattered.

Just saying that the devs have said that they accepted his apology and paradym himself took responsibility for the current situation by saying that its his fault that he didn't acknowledge it at the time and let it just boil with the team, although they still seem pretty reluctant to give pesky a content creator role, I'll just put in the quotes from paradym and let it speak for itself.

"I've spoken with Pesky, the vocal minority of you guys who want to go rip wild about it are just going to exacerbate the situation. This isn't a "us vs pesky" I've spoke with Pesky directly and commented on his latest video. Trying to spin it as anything other than what we covered when we spoke and what he covered in his 17:53 long video is foolish."

"I've taken my conversation Pesky and I had to the team, it was never about criticism but you folks are really eager and jumpy to dive into a perceived wrong. It has and will always be our policy that we aren't going to engage in any business with folks who single out any member of our team. Pesky had great content in his anky video, it also drove people to attack Bryan and drove the man to not wanting to do anything with the community."

"Don is mulling over the conversation I had with Pesky and Kissen has read it as well, management is discussing it inernally."

"You won't get an apology from Don, just mosey on."

"@Pesky (ง'̀-'́)ง Feel free to, though folks are going to twist that into more CYA behavior but if you want to share the conversation the two of us had you have my okay to do so."

"You can only be polite, patient and eager to respond to a conversation but at times when it comes to anything remotely approaching Don telling you what he thinks when blatant abuse is hurled at the team you end up exhausting a well of patience I hadn't thought I'd ever see the bottom of."

"I'll bring this chat back to our team. Considering this I probably should have just opened a dialogue when the issue initially came up instead of letting the team fume about it. I'll take responsibility for that.
We've had a great deal on our plates and dealing with this was just a distraction none of us wanted to commit time to beyond just ignoring it."

"Now move on, Don and I already had a call about this today, it is very likely we'll see Pesky with a purple name because I'm not afraid to eat crow when I have made a mistake."

(Should probably mention that dondi said later on that he accepts pesky's apology but they still probably wont associate with him and give him a content creator role so mixed messages on that one).

"However, continuing to attack over this when it's really not your place just makes this entire situation a case study in why developers don't engage with their communities beyond canned responses run through a marketing agency in which there is another layer of wall between staff and playerbase."

[Kami]

Originally posted by velocitation:

Originally posted by Zoinks but loving but in season:

Should've just put this as a review. More new players would see it and less toxic players who would just flamebait.




Worth it to point out that Pesky didn't actually apologise to the devs for flamebaiting, he apologised to Bryan for all the ♥♥♥♥ he got after the video dropped. He explicitly stated he wasn't going to apologise for anything else because he didn't actually do anything else. I doubt they could even ban Pesky, not in a way that mattered.

Just saying that the devs have said that they accepted his apology and paradym himself took responsibility for the current situation by saying that its his fault that he didn't acknowledge it at the time and let it just boil with the team, although they still seem pretty reluctant to give pesky a content creator role, I'll just put in the quotes from paradym and let it speak for itself.

"I've spoken with Pesky, the vocal minority of you guys who want to go rip wild about it are just going to exacerbate the situation. This isn't a "us vs pesky" I've spoke with Pesky directly and commented on his latest video. Trying to spin it as anything other than what we covered when we spoke and what he covered in his 17:53 long video is foolish."

"I've taken my conversation Pesky and I had to the team, it was never about criticism but you folks are really eager and jumpy to dive into a perceived wrong. It has and will always be our policy that we aren't going to engage in any business with folks who single out any member of our team. Pesky had great content in his anky video, it also drove people to attack Bryan and drove the man to not wanting to do anything with the community."

"Don is mulling over the conversation I had with Pesky and Kissen has read it as well, management is discussing it inernally."

"You won't get an apology from Don, just mosey on."

"@Pesky (ง'̀-'́)ง Feel free to, though folks are going to twist that into more CYA behavior but if you want to share the conversation the two of us had you have my okay to do so."

"You can only be polite, patient and eager to respond to a conversation but at times when it comes to anything remotely approaching Don telling you what he thinks when blatant abuse is hurled at the team you end up exhausting a well of patience I hadn't thought I'd ever see the bottom of."

"I'll bring this chat back to our team. Considering this I probably should have just opened a dialogue when the issue initially came up instead of letting the team fume about it. I'll take responsibility for that.
We've had a great deal on our plates and dealing with this was just a distraction none of us wanted to commit time to beyond just ignoring it."

"Now move on, Don and I already had a call about this today, it is very likely we'll see Pesky with a purple name because I'm not afraid to eat crow when I have made a mistake."

(Should probably mention that dondi said later on that he accepts pesky's apology but they still probably wont associate with him and give him a content creator role so mixed messages on that one).

"However, continuing to attack over this when it's really not your place just makes this entire situation a case study in why developers don't engage with their communities beyond canned responses run through a marketing agency in which there is another layer of wall between staff and playerbase."

They don't get to tell people to move on and forget about this when they started the entire thing because of constructive criticism and decided they would twist it into something we all full well know it's not. They don't get to take the abuse Bryan was taking from parts of Peskys community, which obviously is really not ok, and use that as an excuse to go after Pesky himself; the devs themselves more then anyone should know about not judging a creator by the attack dogs in their community. I'm starting to think Bryan has a minimal, if any, role in actually getting Pesky to apologise, and I feel pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ for judging him so harshly tbh. But Dondi and Paradym, yeah, they absolutely deserve every bit of backlash they're getting for this.

They made their ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bed, now they can lie in it.

[Edit: I rewrote this a couple times, and I forgot to include this part in this rewrite it sems, so I'd just like to say I don't agree with the people who might be going after the devs and hounding them, obviously those people are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. But I absolutely believe not only do they deserve what they're getting, they were pretty much asking for it.]



As for the actual review: Yeah, honestly you take a colossal hit on credibility for trying to say the community is literally an actual cult and then link an article explaining what cults are like that clearly shows that the vast majority of the community doesn't even remotely resemble an actual cult. The rest of it, well, that kind of stuff is coming, but it is not here yet when yes, it absolutely should be here by now. Spaghetti code doesn't excuse the other four years spent on the game with little to show. I love this game and I know it's getting better, but even now the absolute most dedicated players can't deny that the games development has been one of a kind, and not in a good way.

[Dregora]

lol

[BortekThePigeon]

Ngl this review is right, there have been no changes to the gameplay since the beginning really and stating real facts just gets met with people that lick the devs's ass

[cianuro]

And here we have the owner of absolute truth who is going to tell us what a game is.
Oooooh our beloved savior !!!
Is that what you expect us to tell you?
You sound just like all those spoiled children who said that the recode was never going to arrive ...
I think you just came looking for controversy.
Bro, relax.
If you don't like the "game", ignore it and don't play it ;)

[Ulfkarl]

and recode is even worst than that, every update is inferior, I am so dissapointed, we never asked for a rebuild of the game, we just wanted the "recode" they promised a year ago, this is crazy, the game is in pre-alpha version again not even beta

[SUMatt]

Fair points, you're right. Devs be slacking

[velocitation]

Umm the fact that you called the community a cult and not even as a joke but you literally actually think the community is a cult and you even provided a link to what a cult is already makes me not take you seriously, I mean you have some decent arguments but I've seen way better arguments on this forum as to why people dislike the game or the community than yours.

[Punchpacket]

Well this obviously isn't going to go anywhere constructive. You aren't banned for criticism, nor are threads locked for it. You could've easily have posted the very same thread without referring to other users as "cultists" just because they don't share your opinion, and if you had that thread would've still been open.