More realistic population

[Septumplastik]

I'm pretty new to this game but I love it and I'm really excited for Evrima as well. To get more dino content in my life I've also started listening to the "I Know Dino" podcast and in episode 4 I heard the following claim:

Carnivores make up only about 5% of a fauna.

I know this game isn't meant to be that realistic or a simulation, it's a survival game and that's fine. But even in my limited playtime I've noticed that the vast majority of players, myself included, seem to prefer playing as carnivores. Why?

I guess carnivores are a little bit cooler than most herbivores, they're generally faster and I personally feel safer knowing that I'm not just prey. And of course AI is easy to find even during rain, so surviving seems easier as well. I've also read that many servers also seem to favor carnivores in their rules.

I want to start a discussion about this.
Should the game aim for a more realistic ratio of herbivores to carnivores?
How could this be accomplished?
Do you think the ratio will change on its own because of Evrima?

I personally would like to see more herbis and fewer carnis because I like realism, and it would be a bigger deal to see a T-Rex if there were generally fewer of them. This could be accomplished by making it much easier to survive as a herbivore compared to a carnivore, by giving herbivores faster growth times, or otherwise offer more incentives to play herbivores over carnivores. Or maybe there could be a progression system again. You start as a small herbivore and gain points by surviving and doing dino things. Once you die, you can use those points to start as a bigger dino, and carnivores would just be more expensive.

Or maybe it should not matter and everyone should be able to pick whatever they want.
What do you think?

[Sable]

The last option

[Souretsu]

I don't see any positive note in limiting the options a player can choose from. Progression didn't do anything but put a delay on playing as your preferred dinosaur.

[velocitation]

I think the main reason people play carnivores is because generally their gameplay loop is more full of action and active than herbivores gameplay loop which is much more relaxed and more focused on socializing with little bits of action thrown in for when you are being hunted.
Now I don't really think herbivores should get any special treatment to make them more appealing to play for us players rather I think that once more systems are implemented like the dino needs system, the nutrition system, play fighting, more complex group system and some other systems that are not confirmed but possible like droughts and such will make playing herbivores more appealing to people as it would make their gameplay loop more active rather than what is currently is.
I don't think these things will completely resolve the problem since playing as carnivore will always be more appealing to many players as it is more action packed but these things should help them appeal more to players.
Oh also once actually good AI is added there will be AI herds of herbivores which will also help.

[bigmoe808]

The second to last sentence you typed, end of that discussion.

No one will enjoy being told they can't play the animal they want to play just because whoever wants a realistic ecosystem, it's not fun.

To actually affect the population, the right way, you have to balance the actual stats and mechanics behind each playable so that the ones you want to see more of are fun and reasonable to play in the first place. Make the experience of a playable a good one, and then people would play it more.

No progression that forces you to play half the roster to get what you want. At best you could use this for upgrades in stats, but not keys, for other playables.

[Female_sniper]

Progressive systems and starting as a herbie as you suggested would just proclaim that herbies should be the easiest and ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ to play, and they are not by far bad as they are right now.
Every dino has a plus and a minus. Every dino technically has one specific target and one or more enemies to absolutely avoid. This is the most realistic it can become if u ask me.

Personally, I feel a whole lot safer playing as (the obvious herbie) diablo/dibble than I do playing any of the carnevores, coz if u are a carnevore, literally everything wants to kill you at all times. And you can't trust the same species dino either, coz they might be very very hungry.
Herbies tend to not kill each other so... --Tend not to-- I say, nothing is set in stone lol.

No, people should be able to play what they want.
Realistic or not, if there are fifty rexes on the server, at least they have to fight each other. "fair fight" at least. In the end, every battle comes down to experience. Well I mean, I doubt that a dryo can kill a full adult rex, or it will take the entire day to get it down, but hey never tried :P
They can most likely kick a baby and fresh juvie back to yesterday.

P.S.
as to add realism to the surrounding "empty" world could be a thing to balance this out... have more ai that fill up the world.
But the servers needs to be able to handle it, so perhaps this aint such a good idea.

This game in an ARK world... Yeah, dreamscenario.

[General Eclectic]

I mean, Primal Carnage Extinction got along just fine with limiting certain dinosaurs. I know the two aren't extremely similar, but the Isle got a lot of inspiration from PC as well as Jurassic Park. Its a good idea, but the recoded game will have enough balances to counteract the amount of carnivores in the game anyways. Also, there doesn't necessarily need to be more herbivores than carnivores because this isn't a dino realism sim, it's supposedly a horror survival game... supposedly. There won't be any horror elements anytime soon but its a work in progress. Honestly, if the devs from PCE and the Isle simply teamed up, sold everyone on one plan and mindset, there'd be a whole lot more progress for dinosaur games overall.

[Sable]

Eh...the only inspiration The Isle takes from Primal Carnage and Jurassic Park is dinosaur design and some elements of lore.

Primal Carnage having limits works fine because it's a completely different game. You're not choosing characters to play as for extended periods of time, building them up to eventually reach a long term goal. You pick a character to go wild and kill ♥♥♥♥ for a little while and then do it again once the match ends. You're not investing in a particular dinosaur for anything more than a few minutes of mindless chaos and murder.

The Isle, on the other hand, is different. You're making an investment in your dinosaur for the long run, hours if not days to reach a point that you want to be, to achieve perks that will carry on to your next life to improve your dinosaur after that.

Nobody is going to want to invest in a dinosaur that they don't like and don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about.

AI is going to make up the majority of the ecosystem in the future anyway, so OP you won't see just carnivores everywhere.

[bigmoe808]

Originally posted by General Eclectic:

I mean, Primal Carnage Extinction got along just fine with limiting certain dinosaurs. I know the two aren't extremely similar

I mean, they're as far apart as completely different genre.

One's an Arena Battle and the other is Hard Core Survival.

[Bliss]

I would like to see more life controlled by AI (both carnivores and herbivores), so that a much more alive world feels, not like a DayZ with dinosaurs.

[Madkou]

Originally posted by Ninja Stoat:

Eh...the only inspiration The Isle takes from Primal Carnage and Jurassic Park is dinosaur design and some elements of lore.

...and the mercs.

...and the mutations.

...and modern day isle location.

...and the utah and rex sounds.

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

No, players shouldn't be stopped from picking playables.

You have to think outside the box.
As of now, statwise, carnivores and herbivores are indistinguishable. If I gave you an animal with 31 KMH and did 350 damage with a ton of stam, what animal is this?

Herbivores are just carnivores that DEBATABLY eat plants(cause carnivores get bottlefed so AI is essentially bushes for carnivores) and lack ambush and sniffing while moving. That is literally it. The fact that there was even a debate about removing herbivores shows you how little the devs have actually planned on differentiating the two.

People who pick carnivores shouldn't be punished "outright" for their choices. To me I think carnivores should just be punished if there is an abundance of them, they'll give waaay less food than carnivores, so an overall carnivore dominated server would be impossible with so little food to go around. Giant packs just shouldn't be sustainable NORMALLY, if you can somehow manage it and get everyone together, your reward is having more numbers, and you deserve it for your hard efforts.

I would also like it if Carnivores were given much more of a harsh economic situation. Make them have a good amount of stamina, but have it be hard to recover back so they don't just rush down whatever they want. 1 hunt should be substantial and not just something you walk away from like 1 minute after you eaten it and its still got 90% of the food left in it.

Ambushing costs more stamina, so if you screw up your hunt, you're in a worse position and that should make ambushing something you'd do if you KNOW it'll go in your favor.


This just makes more sense, carnivores are often much less of risk takers than you'd think, Lions don't go on killing sprees even though they could, apex predators usually NEVER fight another predator unless they have literally no other choice or its a complete sweep in their favor.

Herbivores if you ask me should be made to be just as economically minded as carnivores.
Shifting this game from a deathmatch to survival is key to it being FUN.


Once people start saying "should I really take this fight?" or "is it worth being here even though its an absolute garbage hole?" or "Would it be better to pick this guy or that guy?" Then the Isle will be fixed. For the most part.

[Dregora]

Because Herbis as they stand currently are simply boring to play. You sit, you grow and then? Even herbis end up picking fights simply out of boredom. Hell, the most bloodthirsty dinosaurs in the entire game are probably diablos and trikes, with diablos being nr 1.

[Boris_HR]

I mostly play Galli so i can say it feels wrong that 95% of players are playing apex predators or best of mid level predators. We all know most kids know about Trex, we all know that most people always love to be super hunters and to feel like supermen. But its so wrong. Problem is that if everybody is a predator game becomes a death match not a simulation. Also depends what people want to see, fun action game or realistic way of dino life. The size of the island we have here could maybe take 1 Trex or a few mid level carnivores. Its right that on 100 people server max amount of carnivores should be 10-15... but at this point we have 80/100 players as carnivores. I would want to have more realistic biodome but i know we cant have that unless we force players to play herbivores. Its sad to say but i just dont know how to make herbivores better for mainstream players. I enjoy playing as ninja galli, always on the lookout from carnivores, always ready to sprint away or to hide.

[Madkou]

Herbies just don't say survival horror like carnies, mutants, and humans do. So, they take a backseat. Well, past being the victim role lol. Once I figured out this wasn't a dino game, it was pretty clear. It has the potential to be, gods yes! But, that isn't their aim.

Other games more focused on the dinosaur experience will know what to do in order to make the herbie survival experience a good one. :) The Isle isn't a dinosaur game. It HAS dinos, but they aren't the focus, and there's the mutants and the humans too. A JP game that isn't a JP game in name.

If you look at things from a PVP standpoint, it becomes clearer too. Sandbox mode has a good number of popular herbies. I mean just as popular as carnies. The bronto, the theri, the anky, the cam, the shant, just to name a few. The stego is also a very popular dino, and THAT one made it in. Instead of using popular dinos they already have, they went and made a new herbie. Great? I've never heard of it, tbh, but we'll get to know it, like any other dino.

PoT, beasts of bermuda, or Saurian are the ones to watch for dino focused game play. I mean, they are polishing their dinos first, but like I said, it isn't their only focus. It's divided.

We'll see what they do man.

[velocitation]

Originally posted by Madkou:

Herbies just don't say survival horror like carnies, mutants, and humans do. So, they take a backseat. Well, past being the victim role lol. Once I figured out this wasn't a dino game, it was pretty clear. It has the potential to be, gods yes! But, that isn't their aim.

Other games more focused on the dinosaur experience will know what to do in order to make the herbie survival experience a good one. :) The Isle isn't a dinosaur game. It HAS dinos, but they aren't the focus, and there's the mutants and the humans too. A JP game that isn't a JP game in name.

If you look at things from a PVP standpoint, it becomes clearer too. Sandbox mode has a good number of popular herbies. I mean just as popular as carnies. The bronto, the theri, the anky, the cam, the shant, just to name a few. The stego is also a very popular dino, and THAT one made it in. Instead of using popular dinos they already have, they went and made a new herbie. Great? I've never heard of it, tbh, but we'll get to know it, like any other dino.

PoT, beasts of bermuda, or Saurian are the ones to watch for dino focused game play. I mean, they are polishing their dinos first, but like I said, it isn't their only focus. It's divided.

We'll see what they do man.

You're saying this as if herbivores are just going to be left in the dust forever and that isn't true, the devs's plan is to make the dinosaur side of the game 100% feature complete before moving on to working on any of the other factions/aspects of the game and herbivores are a part of the dinosaur aspect of the game if you haven't noticed, we've already heard of plans for systems which could and will make the herbivore playstyle more interesting.
Such systems include the dino needs system, emotes and group emotes, play fighting, a more complex animal like group system (with alphas, the ability to fight for control of the group and such), the elder system, the nutrition system and possibly even droughts which although not confirmed for sure they are being experimented with and will definitely affect all dinosaur life on the island if added.
All these systems and maybe even more that we've not heard of will make herbivore life a lot more interesting but the core of it will never change as at the end of the day herbviores will always have a more passive and less active role in the game than carnivores will but that doesn't mean it cant be more interesting.