Elder system

[mattis]

I heard that there will be elders in the game.Basically a powerful adult that you will reach after a couple of hours,but...
Its true that we will have to spend 48 hours after adult to get an elder?Thats too much time,not everyone plays 9 hours a day.I play like 4 hours a week so if i dont die growing,i will need months to grow a dino.

[Kami]

As far as I know they've said nothing about 48 hours being the time needed to gain elder status; instead, thats Deinos full growth time in order to start growing hyper-sized. We've only heard the concept of the Elder system, and nothing else.

If that is how long, that is a little bit too long. Perhaps like 20 hours or so, but 48 hours to gain an elder is pretty hefty.

[mattis]

Originally posted by Zoinks but loving but in season:

As far as I know they've said nothing about 48 hours being the time needed to gain elder status; instead, thats Deinos full growth time in order to start growing hyper-sized. We've only heard the concept of the Elder system, and nothing else.

If that is how long, that is a little bit too long. Perhaps like 20 hours or so, but 48 hours to gain an elder is pretty hefty.

thank you for resolving my doubt.I agree that 20 or even 15 hours will be the best.

[Why Watt]

Elders are going to start out stronger than normal dinosaurs and gradually taper out in power until they are weaker than normal, after this they will die of old age, and when this happens you get to pick a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong bonus for all future members of that species.

The thing about the Elder system is that your animal isn't just stronger that one life - if your dinosaur manages to stay Elder long enough you get to pick a PERMANENT PERK for that species of dinosaurs that will follow you into all your future playthroughs.

Imagine you uh, get your Elder Trike ONE time, only, but manage to survive until it passes away from old age. Well, now every Trike you'll ever grow on that Server is going to be stronger than they otherwise would be, even if they do not reach elder.

Elder is there as an incentive to play smart and stay alive instead of senselessly deathmatching. If you don't care for that, that's fine, you don't need to aim for Elder. But the Elders are really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong initially and then if you succeed at staying alive as an Elder... you have a perma buff of your choice.

48hrs in that sense is perfectly fine. But afaik, you won't get them with that timeframe and it will require you to meet specific objectives instead of being a time based thing.

[mattis]

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Elders are going to start out stronger than normal dinosaurs and gradually taper out in power until they are weaker than normal, after this they will die of old age, and when this happens you get to pick a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong bonus for all future members of that species.

The thing about the Elder system is that your animal isn't just stronger that one life - if your dinosaur manages to stay Elder long enough you get to pick a PERMANENT PERK for that species of dinosaurs that will follow you into all your future playthroughs.

Imagine you uh, get your Elder Trike ONE time, only, but manage to survive until it passes away from old age. Well, now every Trike you'll ever grow on that Server is going to be stronger than they otherwise would be, even if they do not reach elder.

Elder is there as an incentive to play smart and stay alive instead of senselessly deathmatching. If you don't care for that, that's fine, you don't need to aim for Elder. But the Elders are really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong initially and then if you succeed at staying alive as an Elder... you have a perma buff of your choice.

48hrs in that sense is perfectly fine. But afaik, you won't get them with that timeframe and it will require you to meet specific objectives instead of being a time based thing.

But diets will reduce it?If not i will spend months just for one dinosaur

[Kami]

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Elders are going to start out stronger than normal dinosaurs and gradually taper out in power until they are weaker than normal, after this they will die of old age, and when this happens you get to pick a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong bonus for all future members of that species.

The thing about the Elder system is that your animal isn't just stronger that one life - if your dinosaur manages to stay Elder long enough you get to pick a PERMANENT PERK for that species of dinosaurs that will follow you into all your future playthroughs.

Imagine you uh, get your Elder Trike ONE time, only, but manage to survive until it passes away from old age. Well, now every Trike you'll ever grow on that Server is going to be stronger than they otherwise would be, even if they do not reach elder.

Elder is there as an incentive to play smart and stay alive instead of senselessly deathmatching. If you don't care for that, that's fine, you don't need to aim for Elder. But the Elders are really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong initially and then if you succeed at staying alive as an Elder... you have a perma buff of your choice.

48hrs in that sense is perfectly fine. But afaik, you won't get them with that timeframe and it will require you to meet specific objectives instead of being a time based thing.

Wait, its a perk for all time? I thought it was just for your next playthrough and if you can't survive as elder on that one you lose it. Scratch that then. 48 hours is definitely a reasonable amount of time.

The biggest worry then would be a hostile environment to newcomers. Lets say 1 year after the game is completed a newcomer enters a server. What happens if all the old veterans on that specific server all have their buffs? You're competing against players who have played for a long time, know their main in and out, and probably have an elder perk, possibly multiple. I might be mistaken or missing something here, but that seems pretty unfriendly to newbies.

[bork]

Originally posted by Zoinks but loving but in season:

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Elders are going to start out stronger than normal dinosaurs and gradually taper out in power until they are weaker than normal, after this they will die of old age, and when this happens you get to pick a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong bonus for all future members of that species.

The thing about the Elder system is that your animal isn't just stronger that one life - if your dinosaur manages to stay Elder long enough you get to pick a PERMANENT PERK for that species of dinosaurs that will follow you into all your future playthroughs.

Imagine you uh, get your Elder Trike ONE time, only, but manage to survive until it passes away from old age. Well, now every Trike you'll ever grow on that Server is going to be stronger than they otherwise would be, even if they do not reach elder.

Elder is there as an incentive to play smart and stay alive instead of senselessly deathmatching. If you don't care for that, that's fine, you don't need to aim for Elder. But the Elders are really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong initially and then if you succeed at staying alive as an Elder... you have a perma buff of your choice.

48hrs in that sense is perfectly fine. But afaik, you won't get them with that timeframe and it will require you to meet specific objectives instead of being a time based thing.

Wait, its a perk for all time? I thought it was just for your next playthrough and if you can't survive as elder on that one you lose it. Scratch that then. 48 hours is definitely a reasonable amount of time.

The biggest worry then would be a hostile environment to newcomers. Lets say 1 year after the game is completed a newcomer enters a server. What happens if all the old veterans on that specific server all have their buffs? You're competing against players who have played for a long time, know their main in and out, and probably have an elder perk, possibly multiple. I might be mistaken or missing something here, but that seems pretty unfriendly to newbies.

last i heard the perks are quality of life things like night vision or venom resistance not extra speed or damage

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by Zoinks but loving but in season:

Wait, its a perk for all time? I thought it was just for your next playthrough and if you can't survive as elder on that one you lose it. Scratch that then. 48 hours is definitely a reasonable amount of time.

The biggest worry then would be a hostile environment to newcomers. Lets say 1 year after the game is completed a newcomer enters a server. What happens if all the old veterans on that specific server all have their buffs? You're competing against players who have played for a long time, know their main in and out, and probably have an elder perk, possibly multiple. I might be mistaken or missing something here, but that seems pretty unfriendly to newbies.

Yeah they changed stance on it and I got clarification from SaoulZod... so uh, yeah...

But I completely agree, if perks are too strong it's gonna be a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ time for anyone new to join a server. Ideally all perks that go beyond QoL have a tradeoff.

[roger.merrell]

U really think your going to enter a server with all old dinos with this buff. U really think this will keep players from killing 1 other off. 😆 😆 😆 packs still will be thing and old are stronger u will still die. A full server of elder funnies thing ever heard. U guys spend way to much time on the last bite of stuff.

[bigmoe808]

Originally posted by Zoinks but loving but in season:

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Elders are going to start out stronger than normal dinosaurs and gradually taper out in power until they are weaker than normal, after this they will die of old age, and when this happens you get to pick a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong bonus for all future members of that species.

The thing about the Elder system is that your animal isn't just stronger that one life - if your dinosaur manages to stay Elder long enough you get to pick a PERMANENT PERK for that species of dinosaurs that will follow you into all your future playthroughs.

Imagine you uh, get your Elder Trike ONE time, only, but manage to survive until it passes away from old age. Well, now every Trike you'll ever grow on that Server is going to be stronger than they otherwise would be, even if they do not reach elder.

Elder is there as an incentive to play smart and stay alive instead of senselessly deathmatching. If you don't care for that, that's fine, you don't need to aim for Elder. But the Elders are really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ strong initially and then if you succeed at staying alive as an Elder... you have a perma buff of your choice.

48hrs in that sense is perfectly fine. But afaik, you won't get them with that timeframe and it will require you to meet specific objectives instead of being a time based thing.

Wait, its a perk for all time? I thought it was just for your next playthrough and if you can't survive as elder on that one you lose it. Scratch that then. 48 hours is definitely a reasonable amount of time.

The biggest worry then would be a hostile environment to newcomers. Lets say 1 year after the game is completed a newcomer enters a server. What happens if all the old veterans on that specific server all have their buffs? You're competing against players who have played for a long time, know their main in and out, and probably have an elder perk, possibly multiple. I might be mistaken or missing something here, but that seems pretty unfriendly to newbies.

Well yeah. For your entire time on that server-assuming something god awful doesn't happen to the data D;-that bonus perk is still in effect. A lot of people have talked about how over generations you'll gain more and more perks-ie, you survive multiple times.

Sure, it is newbie unfriendly...though that does make me wonder how challenging the environment as well as the quest to become an elder will be. Compared to now where food just drops when you need it, growth times are relatively easy, and the environment remains static, it must be planned to be pretty difficult. Than the question is which stats. Health, Power, Bleed, Armor, Stamina-all that is one thing. Speed and mobility becomes another. And than is this in increments or leaps and bounds.

Would my Allo just be a natural born Chad Tyrone Alpha getting all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ within the Allo community, or would I become an Herculean legends that makes rex my plaything.

[bigmoe808]

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Originally posted by Zoinks but loving but in season:

Wait, its a perk for all time? I thought it was just for your next playthrough and if you can't survive as elder on that one you lose it. Scratch that then. 48 hours is definitely a reasonable amount of time.

The biggest worry then would be a hostile environment to newcomers. Lets say 1 year after the game is completed a newcomer enters a server. What happens if all the old veterans on that specific server all have their buffs? You're competing against players who have played for a long time, know their main in and out, and probably have an elder perk, possibly multiple. I might be mistaken or missing something here, but that seems pretty unfriendly to newbies.

Yeah they changed stance on it and I got clarification from SaoulZod... so uh, yeah...

But I completely agree, if perks are too strong it's gonna be a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ time for anyone new to join a server. Ideally all perks that go beyond QoL have a tradeoff.

Wait-WHAT?! Change it how?

I at least want to know how broken it would be after wasting hours and hours irl to get them.

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by bigmoe808:

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Yeah they changed stance on it and I got clarification from SaoulZod... so uh, yeah...

But I completely agree, if perks are too strong it's gonna be a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ time for anyone new to join a server. Ideally all perks that go beyond QoL have a tradeoff.

Wait-WHAT?! Change it how?

I at least want to know how broken it would be after wasting hours and hours irl to get them.

Previously it was pitched as temporary, so like uh, let's say you get elder Trike right? You then grow another Trike and it has a perk, and if you die before elder, you lose the perk, if you get to elder, you can keep stacking them until you die and all is lost.

Now all is not lost. That's the difference.

Originally posted by roger.merrell:

U really think your going to enter a server with all old dinos with this buff. U really think this will keep players from killing 1 other off. 😆 😆 😆 packs still will be thing and old are stronger u will still die. A full server of elder funnies thing ever heard. U guys spend way to much time on the last bite of stuff.

Oh no, not a full server of elders, a full server of people who managed to get elder buffs on a few animals. There's a difference.

As to it stopping it killing people off, no, it will stop people being as reckless.

Let's say, atm, you are in a pack of 3 adult Trexes. You see another adult Trex. What happens is as follows, you go up and you gangbang, and if you die, so what right? Just grow another Trex and your buds will protect you. Effectively, all Trexes are worth the same, so trading 1 trex to kill another trex is an equal trade.

With the Elder system, not all Trexes are equal, and you have an incentive to not take that risky fight. Sure, that Trex is going to die. It's certain if that fight happens it doesn't live. But if you happen to die in the process, that's a setback that actually matters, ESPECIALLY if you reached Elder status proper.

It takes time and effort to be able to BEGIN the elder process, you must have completed certain criteria before the process starts, so if you want an elder Trex you need idfk, to have nested X number of players and hunted Y number of Trikes or someshit. Well, now that you died fighting that other Trex, you need to do all this again. That's a setback that goes beyond just a time based thing, because you might lose babies before they reach subadult or die fighting Trikes or whatever.

And once you become a fresh Elder, congrats you are stronger than a normal Trex and wouldn't die 1v1 to another normal Trex... but you gradually are going to get weaker until you'd be weaker than a normal Trex.

With you being so close to getting a permanent buff on all your future Trexes, will you really be abusing your power as an Elder to kill others? The risk is much more than just losing a Trex as you currently do. There's a lot of chance and factors that go into you being able to succeed and taking senseless risks by deathmatching just wouldn't be the reality.

Anyone who wants to get Elder isn't going to just go all BLOOD AND GLORY on things. Sure they might still abuse juveniles or slaughter a bunch of bad animals like Beipiaosaurus or Minmi, but they wont be picking on anyone their own size just because of a numbers advantage or bc it sounds fun.

[Kami]

So are we getting both quality of life and big buffs? Because I don't see many people picking something like venom resist or better NV over something like better damage or speed. And yeah there should definitely be drawbacks, but taking the big buffs should still be the better choice, it shouldn't be like an equal trade.

Maybe a buff to speed brings health down but not enough to equal out. Otherwise you just end up having the same animal but with a different playstyle, instead of ideally having the same playstyle but having your playable be better at it.

There's other questions too. Servers can pick and choose whats AI and what their players can play as; what happens if they decide to lock a playable? So you lose those perks? What happens if they then unlock that playable again? Do you regain them or have to work for them again? The preferable option is to get it back but depending on code limitations you might not, and they might not even consider it. There's others, those are just the first I thought of.

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by Zoinks but loving but in season:

There's other questions too. Servers can pick and choose whats AI and what their players can play as; what happens if they decide to lock a playable? So you lose those perks? What happens if they then unlock that playable again? Do you regain them or have to work for them again? The preferable option is to get it back but depending on code limitations you might not, and they might not even consider it. There's others, those are just the first I thought of.

Those are valid concerns and hopefully get answered by the devs.

[roger.merrell]

I understand that I get that. That's the goal. That was the goal with longer grows to see how that turned out. What u will run into is killing before they make this stage. It will be exciting to watch 1 other killing other trying to hold other back. All I hope is that it's permit to keep. To much work just for it to be a next life perk.

[roger.merrell]

I want a perk that lets u grow faster. But if picked u can't get the elder perk. This would allow players to challenge the elder dinos. Because be more adults running around . I think picking some perks that help u right then in a big way should elimate u from the elder grow perk.