The Carnivores & Herbivores

[Why Watt]

In The Isle, there has always been fierce discussions as to how balance should be handled between predator and prey, and often times, one of the two factions has gotten the short end of the stick and felt, well, shafted with the long, pointed end right up where the sun don't shine. While the times Carnivores have overwhelmingly demolished herbivores outnumber the times where the opposite was the case, it has happened and to claim otherwise isn't true.

The true, fundamental issue has always really boiled down to this:

When you make herbivores really fun, viable and powerful, they end up abused, and turned into predators by a certain portion of the playerbase, that includes people like me. That's not to say herbivores taking the initiative is bad, or unrealistic, or wrong. However, it has been them being used as hunting machines, that do not need to be successful to sustain their purge-squads, that has been a problem.

However, when you make the herbivores the complete opposite, i;e, pretty much ♥♥♥♥ing ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, you basically remove any and all herbivores from the ecosystem. So the lands become populated with 90+% Carnivores, and no 'herds' from of things that 'must form herds cuz they should be weaker'.

Both, of those situations, are anything but ideal, or healthy, or what we should want and have in The Isle.

What I am about to propose is a shift in the dynamic, one that will make Carnivores require more skill to hunt Herbivores while also making them less potent at going out of their way to smash these overall weaker Carnivores. I'm going to propose broad, general, rule-of-thumb changes to both factions, over their life cycles, to fit them more neatly into what their intended faction roles are;

Carnivores: the skill based, thrill-seeker faction that can mostly get their full potential from solo-play
Herbivores: the social-oriented, nesting-in-buddies migrating faction which get the most from being in herds.

I will not be going into specific stat change proposals, but general ideas to allow herbivores to have superior outright stats, so HP, damage, weight, to many of their carnivore counterparts, w/o them being abused and broken-powerful - or even something for carnivores to ♥♥♥♥♥ and moan about. While they may be food, they will not be walking snacks, and they will, hopefully, be prosperous and actually exist on servers to be hunted in the first place.

Now, here I go!

Movement Changes

As strange as this will sound, broadly speaking, most Carnivores & Herbivores don't actually have a toolkit, in terms of stamina, stamina regen, trot speed, and sprint speed, that they would logically have.

Carnivores are adapted to patrol their ideal hunting grounds, and when the prey leave, they hunker down... they don't migrate. If they fail a hunt, they don't keep pursuing, they sit back and recuperate. They are typically faster than their prey, but less enduring.

Herbivores are adapted to migrate, to travel to where they can find food to sustain the herd. They need to be able to keep moving without halting for rest, their stomachs, urging them on. When fleeing, they use the fact a predator has focused on another target and use that time to save themselves; and if being chased, they juke, and aim to out-last, their attackers.

I'm about to blow your minds, but here's a revelation: Carnivores and Herbivores ATM... are flipped.

What this means is that, when you have been hunted by Aggro Herbivores, well, it's because they play like Carnivores. When they aren't actually meant to! It's not 'omg people are so toxic hunting with herbivores', no, it's because statwise they are actually built like predators are.
Which brings a special kinda mind♥♥♥♥; 90% of a server being carnivores, when their movement actually handles like herbivores... food for thought, eh?

Broadly speaking, of course, but I concluded that 99% of the problems we can have in carnivores vs. herbivores come from how they have the other's toolkits.
Herbivores have bad stamina regen when trotting, lower trot-speeds and stamina pools, last longer without food, are faster.
Carnivores are slower, need food more often, have higher stamina pools and trot speed and typically are better stat-oriented to cross-country.

What makes Endurance predators, like dogs, or people, so effective, is that they are distinct in using basically the same 'toolkit' as a herbivore does. Endurance predators struggle against other rival predators because they are inherently geared like prey, and not typical predator.

Therefore, excluding the cases of Allosaurus and Giganotosaurus, who are, by in-game design, endurance hunters, + Suchomimus, who has a build proper to a semi-aquatic, but all other dinosaurs would have their locomotion overhauled.

Carnotaurus:
-Increased Stamina Regen when resting
-Reduced Trot Speed & Stamina pool - the latter getting a substantial nerf.
Ceratosaurus:
-Increased Stamina Regen when resting & ambush multiplier increase
-Reduced Sprinting Turn & Stamina pool - both getting a substantial nerf.
Diabloceratops:
-Increased Sprinting Turn & Trot speed & Stamina pool - the latter two getting a substantial buff
-Reduced Sprinting Speed - only seeing a slight decrease
Dilophosaurus:
-Increased Ambush Multiplier & Walk Speed (thus crouch speed by extension)
-Reduced Trotting Stamina Regen & Stamina pool - the latter getting a substantial nerf.
Dryosaurus:
-Increased Trot Speed
-Reduced Sprinting Speed
Gallimimus:
-Increased Trot Speed & Stamina Regen - the latter getting a substantial buff
-Reduced Sprinting Speed
Maiasaura:
-Increased Stamina Pool & Sprinting Turn - the latter getting a substantial buff
-Reduced Sprinting Speed - receiving a substantial nerf
Pachycephalosaurus:
-Increased Trot Speed
-Reduced Sprint Speed
Parasaurolophus:
-Increased Trot Speed & Sprinting Turn & Stamina regen - all getting substantial buffs
Triceratops:
-Increased Sprinting Turn & can Regen Stamina when Trotting
Tyrannosaurus:
-Increased Stamina Regen resting & Walk Speed (thus crouch speed by extension)
Utahraptor:
-Increased Stamina Regen when resting
-Reduced Sprinting Turn & Stamina Pool

While these changes to movement may seem extreme, and make dinosaurs you play as fundamentally feel very different from how they currently are, remember, most do not have properties that fitted predators and prey, respectively. Some were close; and they received very few changes, given this. Others, such as Utahraptor, are very different from how people are used to them being.

By making predator and prey actually play closer to what they should, given their inherent nature, it will hopefully drive down both Megapacking - because Carnivores are globally less-suited overall to travel - as well as Herbivores Hunting Parties when they happen to have actually good stats. Fixing their movement... allows you to make them balanced with eachother without leading them to be broken.

Nesting Changes

If you want Herbivores to be the more 'social' experience, of course you need to incentive them to nest frequently, to replenish their numbers or just gather up to form a herd to begin with.

So what I propose to give herbivores tangible advantages, in regards to nesting, would be allowing them to create larger nests, with mutliple females contributing. Instead of an isolated nest raised by parents, you could make a nesting site to allow herds to flourish.

How would this work, what would it do, and what would the benefits be?

A nesting colony would be established when enough female herbivores of the same species would make nests in close-proximity to each other. What a nesting colony would essentially be... is a spawnpoint for Herbivores of said species.
If a colony is active, when you spawn in as a member of that herbivore species, the game would automatically send you a nest-invite. You can, of course, refuse. But, should you accept, you will be spawned in as a member of the group, albeit with none of the mothers being yours, specifically - therefore, you have the skin you selected, but you are a hatchling :P

In proximity to the nesting site, Herbivore Food Plant would respawn MUCH faster, thus enabling the forming of thriving herds while also supporting the adults who stay around. The site would continue to act as both a 'spawnpoint' and a generator of plants provided it remains active.

The nesting site, being active, would require there to be as many members of that species as there were nests needed to make the site, regardless of gender, in the area, along with there being 500 food across all the nests. It can remain 'inactive' for 12hrs before it would destroy itself, but would return to being active once these two requirement is met.

The nesting site, not technically belonging to any given individual, would remain online, and thus, able to be destroyed - if all the nests are broken, this would permanently disable the nesting site.

This... would be a huge edge for herbivores to ACTUALLY FORM HERDS. If someone dies, no more frustrating trek across the land, searching far and wide, dying to rexes every other lake until they just nest you back in. You could just, outright, spawn with a herd. A guarantee of that. Hell, when in the Character Select screen, perhaps it could show if there are any active Nesting Sites when viewing the Herbivore Faction?

Making herbivores more appealing in their social aspect by giving them actual mechanics to encourage what makes them special, to facilitate it? A good idea in my eyes, and could go a long way towards making herbivores more appealing; instead of stumbling along the V3 beaches as a juvi Galli, you could spawn as a hatchling, but already amongst a herd that has formed?
Oh and it would make herbivores the ultimate streaming dinosaur, just broadcast the server after having made a nesting site and watch the herd form before your eyes!

Lastly, some changes to Juveniles

While that change to nesting greatly improves the QoL for herbivores we must also acknowledge the struggles of juveniles, especially those... not being raised. This isn't specifically a herbivore and carnivore issue, however, it often becomes a problem; more viable herbivores means more of them, and it's a well known fact that many herbivores kill juvenile carnivores on sight. I'm not saying this isn't justifiable or realistic, however, it IS offputting, and that's not really up for debate. Sure, herbivores irl kill the young of their predators, and sure, letting that juvi live to one day hunt you isn't smart... but nobody has every said sincerely "GG Maias, my Juvi Alo had such a blast being ran down and squashed!"

In general, Juvenile Carnivores would have very long lasting ambushes, roughly 30 seconds long, that would charge in 1 second instead of 3-4+. This is because ambushing... would be their escape mechanism, and not really for hunting. The ambush sprint of juvenile Carnivores would achieve speeds close to, but not as good as, their adult forms; a Juvi Dilo might ambush and achieve 36kmh.
They would be adapted to use it to flee... but after their ambush is done, they would all be balanced to be left on scarcely any stamina. Their resting stamina regen would be good, mind you, to allow them to dart away, hide, and have enough Stamina to dart away if need-be.

Furthermore, all juvenile Carnivores would have superior turning to their adult. This would allow them to escape their adult forms, provided they ambush; a juvi Giga would be able to use it's ambush to potentially escape an adult Giga.

Juvenile Herbivores would be blessed on a different front, having base sprint speeds that can keep up with their adults. Not being faster, again, and also they would have less endurance. But their speed would allow them to run for safety, and escape potential danger, again, like the carnivores. However, their stamina regen would be good across the board, trotting included, albeit their resting recovery would be outclassed by carnivore juveniles, who need to be more independent.

This would make juveniles, if you will, somewhat like a kitten; it's moving at similar speeds to an adult, in a mad run for safety, but cannot sustain that run, it isn't adapted for it.

I hope you have all enjoyed this read. Please share your thoughts in the comments below

[Hendaron]

dimi の投稿を引用：

no pls people would just camp at a lake or a corpse and eat whenever a tick went down

Wouldn't that be counterproductive to doing.... well anything else?
If say you are a carni and have a corpse why would you try taking on sth else? And even if you did, having to go back to the corpse to heal up gives the other party alot of time to get away (disclaimer; eating wouldn't activily fill your health like Why Watt suggested, I am suggesting that health regen drains your food directly, thus adding more of a tradeoff to hunts)

[Dimitris]

Hendaron の投稿を引用：

dimi の投稿を引用：

no pls people would just camp at a lake or a corpse and eat whenever a tick went down

Wouldn't that be counterproductive to doing.... well anything else?
If say you are a carni and have a corpse why would you try taking on sth else? And even if you did, having to go back to the corpse to heal up gives the other party alot of time to get away (disclaimer; eating wouldn't activily fill your health like Why Watt suggested, I am suggesting that health regen drains your food directly, thus adding more of a tradeoff to hunts)

this is different from what you said before
regening taking away your hunger is ok
how fast you regenerate having to do with how hungry you are isnt ok though

[Sable]

I think maybe a lot of people on this thread are being to general and broad. You can't make all carnivores have a particular set of stats, nor can you do the same with herbivores. Each has to be played differently to its own skill set.

The way you're putting makes it sound like there's only one carnivore and one herbivore, but there isn't. Simple as that.

Carnivores like Utah, Cerato, and Carno are better suited for long, drawn out pursuits because of their speed and stamina, like wolves or hyenas. They're supposed to be running for miles without needing to rest because their trots aren't really fast.

Apexes don't have much stamina, but to compensate, they have incredible trots. Granted, their speed should be nerfed, with only Ambush as their real means of catching up to anything within a short window.

Dilos and Allos should be similar to Utahs and Carnos, but instead of long pursuit hunts, they should be closer to having guerilla tactics, especially Dilo, being a nocturnal hunter. They should be able to get in and out, stacking bleed and keeping prey moving until they drop.

Every herbivore should match it's same Tier carnivore. Trikes should have faster trot, with less stamina but more power to match a Rex or Giga.

Dryos and Gallis should be able to match the pursuit hunters in terms of speed and stamina. Diablo and Pachy should be somewhere in between speed and power, but with plenty of stamina.

Neither faction should be absolutely superior over the other regarding power, speed, and stamina. Herbivores do need to migrate yes, but then so do Carnivores, because they need to follow their food. The only reason Carnivores don't migrate like they would is because 90% of servers are carnivore, so it's more of a deathwatch right now, but only because the herbivores can't fight back, so nobody plays them.

More carnivores means more fights, more fights means more bodies, meaning more food and less need to travel. If Herbivores were more viable, more people would play them, which means more migration for bushes, and more migration for Carnivores to follow their prey.

[Dimitris]

@Ninja_.Weasel only switch dilo with utah

[Big Boss]

Ratio of carnivores to herbivores in real life is 1 carnivore for every 10 herbivores and successful hunt percentages for most carnivores is between 10 to 30 percent. Right now it definitely feels like the opposite, most servers seem to have 10 carnivores for every 1 herbivore and the constricted nature of alot of map with rare water sources and lots of trees increases successful hunts to very high levels. All of this leads to a poorer gaming experience.

I think apart from the rex the carnivores should have to rely on teamwork to trap and kill prey. They should either have to use ambush tactics or plan an attack like lions where the prey is sent running toward a waiting teammate. Devs should nerf all herbivore attack damage, except for the horned dinos like trike, and give them superior speed with the adults able to easily shrug off damage by smaller mid tier carnivores.

[Sable]

dimi の投稿を引用：

@Ninja_.Weasel only switch dilo with utah

Utah isn't going to be intended for nocturnal hunting or for hit and run tactics. It's going to be having a big raptor-pile on Rexes and Shants and whatnot once it gets its pounce.

Dilo will be hunting mostly at night in forests, able to deal a lot of bleed quickly and get out without taking a hit, and keep it's victim moving and bleeding out.

Big Boss の投稿を引用：

Ratio of carnivores to herbivores in real life is 1 carnivore for every 10 herbivores and successful hunt percentages for most carnivores is between 10 to 30 percent. Right now it definitely feels like the opposite, most servers seem to have 10 carnivores for every 1 herbivore and the constricted nature of alot of map with rare water sources and lots of trees increases successful hunts to very high levels. All of this leads to a poorer gaming experience.

I think apart from the rex the carnivores should have to rely on teamwork to trap and kill prey. They should either have to use ambush tactics or plan an attack like lions where the prey is sent running toward a waiting teammate. Devs should nerf all herbivore attack damage, except for the horned dinos like trike, and give them superior speed with the adults able to easily shrug off damage by smaller mid tier carnivores.

It's typically the large predators, namely Apex predators, that are the least successful in hunting and overall survival.

In Africa, it isn't the King of the Savannah, the Lion, that succeeds the most at hunting, with only a 25% kill rate hunting as a group and at night. It's predators like the Painted Wolf, with an 70-85% kill rate, and the Cheetah, with a 50-60% kill rate.

Smaller predators are also usually the ones who continue to thrive when humans come into the environment, which will eventually happen in The Isle. Creatures like Rex and Trike won't be able to escape due to their size, but something like a Utah, or Herrera?

They can escape and coexist rather easily, like how wolves and bears were pushed out of their habitats when humans began expanding cities, but coyotes and raccoons remained and continue to thrive.

[Dimitris]

it would be more logical if dilos hunted in the day with large stamina pool and great speed hunting small pray
while utah hunting at night with low stamina and high speed hunting large creatures (since they get one shoted they would rely on night to be able to use hit and run on the large creatures

[.]

到底是怎么回事 の投稿を引用：

The best experience I had as a herbivore where when the herbivores were actually weaker. Forced to create herds left me with some of the best memories.

I'm all for having carnivores stronger in 1v1 situations. Thats realistic, because herbivores by nature are pack animals, its why they create herds, to protect one another.

That's what gets people to not play herbs, forcing them to make a herd because they can't 1v1 preds would make them obsolete and useless to be and you realize preds can pack too?

[Sable]

dimi の投稿を引用：

it would be more logical if dilos hunted in the day with large stamina pool and great speed hunting small pray
while utah hunting at night with low stamina and high speed hunting large creatures (since they get one shoted they would rely on night to be able to use hit and run on the large creatures

Logic really isn't a thing in this game. Utah will not be the Rulers of the Night in The Isle. They'll be the best pack hunters once they get their pouncing mechanic that will allow them to latch onto large prey. Having both a pounce, and superior night vision would make it too OP, and would definitely cause problems among the player community. It wouldn't make sense to nerf Utah's stam because they'll need it for their pounce mechanic, which will already drain a lot of stamina on its own.

[Sable]

As for claiming that herbivores are flawed because they can't 1v1 predators...

We've already discussed that predators outnumber prey 10 to 1 on almost any server, Official or not. With that logic, most encounters of a carnivore versus an herbivore will not be 1v1, and that probably plays a big part as to why everyone assumes a Trike cannot face off with a Rex. Yes, Trikes and Rexes are somewhat broken right now, but it's also a little simpler than that, and was touched base on a little by @Dinooo.

Herbivores are supposed to herd together. In real life, there is hardly a single species of large herbivore that travels alone. Elephants, giraffes, rhinos, hippos, buffalo, bison, elk, moose, caribou, etc. They all travel in herds, some that reach incredible numbers. The fact is, that a lone herbivore will always be the easiest to be killed by predators. When lions attack buffalo, they don't pick a target that's smack in the middle of a herd. They find one that's more isolated, and will back off if the rest of the herd comes to the lone buffalo's aid.

Since carnivores vastly outnumber herbivores in TI, a fight between the two is hardly ever a 1v1. It's more likely to be 5 Utahs on one Diablo, or 3 Rexes on a lone Trike.

If you had a herd of 5 Diablos against a pack of 5 Utahs, the Utahs will not even be able to get close. (Then again, Utah players tend to be suicidal and just throw themselves at bigger creatures only to be one-shotted)

A herd of 3 to 5 Trikes against a pack of 2-5 Rexes? Easily in the Trikes favor, especially with the wacky combat system. The Rexes will more than likely do more damage to each other trying to get into the mix with so many combatants. They'll be breaking their packmates' legs, and will be forced to back out of the hunt.

[Big Boss]

Ya if they could have some sort of enforced ratio of carnivores to herbivores for the servers it would help make the game better. I play Squad alot and in that they have class limits so everyone cant be a sniper and ruin the game.

[Dimitris]

Big Boss の投稿を引用：

Ya if they could have some sort of enforced ratio of carnivores to herbivores for the servers it would help make the game better. I play Squad alot and in that they have class limits so everyone cant be a sniper and ruin the game.

yes but this game is about being your favorite dino
many people wouldnt want to be forced to play something they dont like especially when its so drasticly different

[Voyager]

I main Pachy. Playing on official servers or IGParadise.
With Global chat disabled it's more difficult to find other herbies so most of the time I'm alone.

Maybe ~ 8/10 times I die as Juvi ( I dont like to grow half-AFK , I want to play the game ).
Once I finaly reach adulthood I just die to anything. Even small carnivores require one , two bites to start heavy bleeding and run away from me. This is smart strategy and I'm fine with that! I'm getting outplayed and thats FINE :)

Thing is.

There is too many people turning this game into PvP - Kill on Sight sport. Very often they stop eating body just to catch me for fun.

At least have some sense of moderation and understand that not everyone is interested in Tier lists or playing dinos that are considered OP, some of us playing species which we LIKE!

Shotouts to huge Carno who #2 called me at big lake yesterday and let juvi Pachy go away :)

[Why Watt]

Voyager, whether you like it or not, the game IS fundamentally PvP and has absolutely no PvE to it. There is no environment actively impeding your survival, to encourage players to band together to work against it to survive.

No, the only form of entertainment in this game is PvP, and thats it. This PvP can take place in many different forms, whether it's only killing for what you may perceive as necessity or killing something on sight, whether you kill in self-defense or to protect your territory or herd or whatever.

People are not "turning it" into anything. The Isle IS a Player vs Player game. And while there's nothing wrong with being more casual and playing Pachy because it's something you enjoy, there's also nothing wrong with playing the game uninhibited and doing whatever you want in a sandbox PvP experience: both playstyles are OK.

I kill players without the need to, all, the, damn, time. I enjoy hunting, spontaneous encounters, conflict, whatever, and when someone gets careless I put them back to square one. Does that make me an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, a terrible person? No. It's a game. If the environment was actually dangerous than sure, fine, I can do PvE if it's engaging. But I like how unpredictably predictable players are. It's fun. Hunting, being hunted, whatever, I have fun doing it. I set myself goals (example, go Utahraptor and solo against several other Utahs and win, go Pachy and kill X number of juvi Apexes ) and hell, I even roleplay a bit on those same servers you play... official servers.

On US2 I have an orange, male Tyrannosaurus that lives a... solitary life. It repeatedly witnessed a culling of it's juvenile offspring it happened to take under it's wing, and as such is reluctant to protect any. It patrols it's territory, along the series of lakes that are reservoir, hotsprings, secret-lake, murky, double pond & meltwater, rarely, if ever, straying from this "home-range". It lives a reclusive life, killing or driving off any competition that enters its specific territory. It rarely bothers to give prolonged chase after anything it drives off; if you escape it initially, it's unlikely to actively search for you, being lazy to an extent. This Tyrannosaurus always eats from kills it makes and has only fallen under 60% hunger thrice in it's lifespan, and has successfully killed several other adult Tyrannosaurus.

[Flishster]

Ninja_.Weasel の投稿を引用：

As for claiming that herbivores are flawed because they can't 1v1 predators...

We've already discussed that predators outnumber prey 10 to 1 on almost any server, Official or not. With that logic, most encounters of a carnivore versus an herbivore will not be 1v1, and that probably plays a big part as to why everyone assumes a Trike cannot face off with a Rex. Yes, Trikes and Rexes are somewhat broken right now, but it's also a little simpler than that, and was touched base on a little by @Dinooo.

Herbivores are supposed to herd together. In real life, there is hardly a single species of large herbivore that travels alone. Elephants, giraffes, rhinos, hippos, buffalo, bison, elk, moose, caribou, etc. They all travel in herds, some that reach incredible numbers. The fact is, that a lone herbivore will always be the easiest to be killed by predators. When lions attack buffalo, they don't pick a target that's smack in the middle of a herd. They find one that's more isolated, and will back off if the rest of the herd comes to the lone buffalo's aid.

Since carnivores vastly outnumber herbivores in TI, a fight between the two is hardly ever a 1v1. It's more likely to be 5 Utahs on one Diablo, or 3 Rexes on a lone Trike.

If you had a herd of 5 Diablos against a pack of 5 Utahs, the Utahs will not even be able to get close. (Then again, Utah players tend to be suicidal and just throw themselves at bigger creatures only to be one-shotted)

A herd of 3 to 5 Trikes against a pack of 2-5 Rexes? Easily in the Trikes favor, especially with the wacky combat system. The Rexes will more than likely do more damage to each other trying to get into the mix with so many combatants. They'll be breaking their packmates' legs, and will be forced to back out of the hunt.

You're correct that most big game herbivores live in groups. The thing is, most big game predators are social as well, even if they aren't hunting in groups. Tigers, leopards, and bears, once all thought to be strictly solitary, turned out to have friends and family they meet up with every so often and hang out with. Group behavior is not uncommon in animals.

What doesn't exist, however, is animals that have no way to take on a predator 1v1 in some form. They ALL are either far more mobile or are able to beat the ♥♥♥♥ out of their predators by a significant amount. A buffalo separated from its herd is definitely the easier target, but it's not at all an easy meal on its own. A buffalo can still kill and gore several lions if the lions actually allowed that to occur, but because they have the mobility advantage they get to choose that.

In the opposite direction, cheetahs and thompson's gazelles. Cheetahs may be faster, but only by a little, and the gazelle is far more agile and can run for far longer, and gazelle buck CAN and WILL gore a cheetah if given the opportunity. Despite being a small flighty creature, gazelles still are not something a predator wants to get on the wrong side of.

Considering there is no way a Triceratops is ever going to run away from a rex, they should probably be able to take out a rex pretty easily on their own. What should be the challenge is ambushing the trikes so as to catch one off guard, then proceed to kill it before its buddies can step in. With a good ambush, a rex should have no problem getting behind a trike and killing it, even in its current state.

I think part of the problem is that right now, everything's damage is kinda terrible. If we want to be reasonable here, a trike horn to the chest should one-shot everything, and likewise a bite from a rex should one-shot a trike. Alas it's a game, so that can't be how things are always, but I do think everything does far too little damage right now, which is part of the problem. As soon as you get on something's butt, you can kinda just bite it for a few minutes until it dies. In reality, it does take a while to kill prey, but the predator typically has it at least restrained, which is not something that can reasonably be done in this game.