Aquatic Creatures (Spino, Sucho, Austro, Deino)

[kekyoin]

I changed the title because why not just include Deino in this.

I see some arguments about "why sucho when spino is being added" and how "spino might have trouble fitting ingame," but here's my suggestions on how to implement them all.

*** Important to note, I'm assuming the Spino will be somewhat based on the scientifically accurate version of the Spino. If the devs decide to infuse JP3 elements into it (or have it similar to what it was like before) then the Spino would be a lot better on land and less water dependent.***

First a point about the Deinosuchus. I think that it should be harder to grow past reaching a length of 30 or 40 feet. This way we'd have a bunch of "alligators" with 30 footers being somewhat common and 40 footers being rare, and absolute monsters of 50 feet (apex length) being even harder to achieve.

Deinosuchus
Fully embraces the aquatic lifestyle. It can lumber on land but it's pretty slow (unless sprinting, it's surprisingly fast in sprints but can't sustain land sprinting for very long) with a "turn on a dime" turn radius (very good turn radius) and is quite, quite tough. So when a dinosaur sees one migrating, it better not mess with it.. Loses no stamina swimming, and has the ability to "sprint" in water. Sprinting on land absolutely drains its stamina the bigger it gets, but the bigger it gets the faster it is in the water.

Once it hits 30-40 feet in length, its growth starts to slow immensely. Its hunger can remain satiated for longer periods of time and it can remain underwater for longer (not to mention, perfect underwater vision). The bigger it gets, the less often it needs to eat, but it does need to eat more in one sitting to fill up. It can afford to play the waiting game because of it's amazing hunger decay and because it was cold blooded, so keeping it full is no big deal and you almost never have to worry about food with fish (tho the bigger you get, the less it fills up, so after a certain point you must be eating dinosaurs).

Has a water ambush multiplier if submerged near the shore to help it catch unsuspecting prey.

Austroraptor
It's small, really fast, can jump pretty high, pounces, and has the unique ability to eat fish. It has better underwater vision than most other dinosaurs, but is worse than sucho's vision. For all its agility and speed, it has a bad stamina pool. However, it's not exactly a threat to anything, and it has to pretty much run from everything besides fresh spawn juvis. It has a really low growth time too so huge packs of austros can be a common sight around lakes.

It's quite sustainable and is the ultimate survivalist. It can and will thrive no matter where it lives. It's only disadvantage is it's small size, meaning you can't kill anything really with it unless you pack up, and even then you're not really taking down anything of noteworthy size. You're just a pest at best to something like a medium, but that's the tradeoff.

Suchomimus
A literal jack-of-all trades dinosaur that can live a terrestrial and an aquatic lifestyle but excels at neither. Has better underwater vision than the Austro, decent mobility on land, pretty bad stamina, but is quite strong vs other mediums. You're never safe from anything on land nor from anything in the water. If some deino your size moves in, you're fresh out of luck at this lake, but you can just leave for another lake or adapt a terrestrial lifestyle.

You're a pretty good generalist dinosaur, can hold your own vs mediums (except sub apexes) and can go fishing. This leaves the sucho with plenty of options and good backup plans incase the forest gets infested with flesh eaters or if a big scaly boi moves into your lake.

Spinosaurus (scientifically accurate model)
Spinosaurus trades land mobility for water mobility. It excels at swimming, doesn't lose stam while swimming, and can swim pretty fast. He can stay underwater for pretty lengthy periods of time (nothing crazy, just noticeably longer than sucho can). On land it's cumbersome and pretty slow, but can hold it's own against even an apex 1v1 (this is NOT preferable tho. While you can turn pretty well since you're really slow, it's still pretty risky to take on a terrestrial apex). So basically, on land, you're not exactly going to catch anything. Spino also gets a water ambush multiplier so you can chase things down at the water edge, but it's a short ambush and drains stam. Has really good underwater vision (not perfect but really good).

Otherwise, Spino can chill in the water not fearing anything but a 40+ foot Deinosuchus or a pack of apexes. But all this glory is at the expense of a really long growth time and quite a lackluster sub adult stage (you're a really bad sucho essentially and you can't hide that well).
You can't run but you can only swim around in lakes, that's your only saving grace. But the lakes hide deinosuchuses that will be at least your size and bigger as a sub, so life will be hard.


Spinosaurus (Jurassic Park inspired model)
This is probably the more likely of the two models to be implemented ingame. Since the devs said they wanted Spino to be a superpredator, then this wouldn't be all that much more aquatic than the Sucho.

Better underwater vision than Sucho, can stay underwater for longer, Sucho swims faster in water but Spino loses no stam while swimming. On land, Spino is the slowest of the 3 apexes but has the largest health pool of the 3. In a 1v1 facetank, Spino ideally wins against the others because of its health advantage and generally good defenses, but it's not a curbstomp by the Spino in either case, and it will hurt the Spino. Offense wise, it doesn't do too much damage in one bite, but its advantage is that it can bite very quickly in succession. Stamina isn't too impressive either so it's not meant to traverse the map that easily, but it can recover stamina while walking. Basically it'll be similar to how the Spino played out before but with a pretty good dynamic as an aquatic creature. I'm not sure if this will make it the "superpredator" the devs want it, but I'm sure they'll think of other ways to achieve that status for the Spino.



TlDr:

Deinosuchus: For those that can play the waiting game and let the prey come to them. Life's pretty good until 30 feet, after which you can bide your time but will have to hunt dinosaurs vs eating fish all the time.

Austroraptor: Perfect survivalist. Does everything pretty well except it's not threatening to anything else. You run from everything, but you can thrive anywhere. Generally kind of bad stamina so watch out. Otherwise you're small enough to hide too.

Sucho: For those who want to be big enough to hold their own vs most things but also want to take advantage of fish as a food source. Pretty good swimmers, can submerge, but always have to watch their backs.

Spino: If you make it to adult, you can chill and not be afraid of most things. You're pretty bad on land so a big body of water is most ideal for you. You can indefinitely stay afloat in the water so nothing on land can get you (you can also dive which puts them at a massive risk), and you can stay underwater for a good amount of time. But again, life's hard as sub so if you get here, you can play it pretty safe.

What do you guys think? Spino is coming no matter what, so I wanted to make it a bit more unique and incentivize water lifestyle more than land.

[Sable]

They all need a swim-speed and stamina buff, but keep them as the current ratio to each other, aside from Spino. Austro currently swims faster than Sucho, and it should since a Sucho can one shot it, but Sucho also has more stamina in the water.

Spino should swim either a tad slower or the same speed as Sucho, but with more stamina.

Deino should be the ultimate swimmer, with the highest stamina and ability to "sprint" in the water, making it the fastest swimmer. It should also be able to just sit underwater for the longest time out of any semi-aquatic.

Remember that while Austro and Sucho may be more mobile on land than Spino, their running stamina will suck major @ss, so we can't rely on their speed on land as a real advantage.

[SkBonez]

I personally like the idea of making Austro an all terrain raptor. Decent swimmer that can hunt fish and smaller dinos and humans. Being too small to contend with bigger animals it has the option to get out of their way. Big scary lake monster moved into the lake? You can hunt in the forest. Allosaurus pack in the forest today? Go hunt in water. Maybe give it Utah’s small prey pounce, can’t pounce bigger creatures but can pounce humans and dryos. All purpose small predator.

[kekyoin]

Good suggestions, I'll update the original post.

[Qubaal7890]

I personally feel like sucho and spinos roles should be swapped.

Making sucho the best swimmer makes it a massive threat for growing spinos and deinos but be able to escape big deinos and adult apexes given the chance. Keep suchos current land mobility and make it as fast as a cerato in the water with decent stam. Make Austro comparably as fast as a Pachy in the water to compensate.

Spino on the other hand should be the bulky all-terrain generalist apex who can travel and hunt anywhere and anything it wants. Dondi did state multiple times that Spino is going to be a super predator, so building it like this will make it just that. Make strong enough to tackle rexes and Trikes 50/50 and keep ots high bleed heal to counter giga and make it Rexes old speed on land and as fast as current Sucho in the water with a decent ambush and alot of stam to burn. This will allow Spino to throw its weight around on both land and water but not be totally oppressive in either.

Just a little brainstorm so definitely could use room for improvement.

[TRIGZ514]

I love your idea Qubaal!

[kekyoin]

@Qubaal
The only problem I see is that we don't know what they're going to model the Spino after: scientifically accurate spino, JP3, or a mix of both (boy do the devs put JP into this game, utah is carbon copy JP raptor)

If it is like a JP spino, then what you said makes much, much more sense. It should be a terror of both water and land but not better than the Sucho. If it's scientifically accurate Spino, then having it excel at aquatic would be more ideal.

if it's a fusion then we do have some leeway.

With what all the devs said, I think it might be a fusion leaning towards more JP Spino influences if it's going to be a superpredator.

[Darth Absentis]

Originally posted by SkBonez:

I personally like the idea of making Austro an all terrain raptor. Decent swimmer that can hunt fish and smaller dinos and humans. Being too small to contend with bigger animals it has the option to get out of their way. Big scary lake monster moved into the lake? You can hunt in the forest. Allosaurus pack in the forest today? Go hunt in water. Maybe give it Utah’s small prey pounce, can’t pounce bigger creatures but can pounce humans and dryos. All purpose small predator.

now that would be lovely, but then i think either utah and dillo need a nerf or the austro needs to become even faster, since otherwise its just gonna end up as food for utahs,since utahs are not slow swimmers either.

[wizard master結城晶子リ]

Originally posted by anti vax kid:

I changed the title because why not just include Deino in this.

I see some arguments about "why sucho when spino is being added" and how "spino might have trouble fitting ingame," but here's my suggestions on how to implement them all.



First a point about the Deinosuchus. I think that it should be harder to grow past reaching a length of 30 or 40 feet. This way we'd have a bunch of "alligators" with 30 footers being somewhat common and 40 footers being rare, and absolute monsters of 50 feet (apex length) being even harder to achieve.

Deinosuchus
Fully embraces the aquatic lifestyle. It can lumber on land but it's really slow and really vulnerable. Loses no stamina swimming, and has the ability to "sprint" in water. Sprinting on land absolutely drains its stamina the bigger it gets, but the bigger it gets the faster it is in the water.

Once it hits 30-40 feet in length, its growth starts to slow immensely. Its hunger can remain satiated for longer periods of time and it can remain underwater for longer (not to mention, perfect underwater vision). The bigger it gets, the less often it needs to eat, but it does need to eat more in one sitting to fill up. It can afford to play the waiting game because of it's amazing hunger decay and because it was cold blooded, so keeping it full is no big deal and you almost never have to worry about food with fish (tho the bigger you get, the less it fills up, so after a certain point you must be eating dinosaurs).

Has a water ambush multiplier if submerged near the shore to help it catch unsuspecting prey.

Austroraptor
It's small, really fast, can jump pretty high, pounces, and has the unique ability to eat fish. It has better underwater vision than most other dinosaurs, but is worse than sucho's vision. For all its agility and speed, it has a bad stamina pool. However, it's not exactly a threat to anything, and it has to pretty much run from everything besides fresh spawn juvis. It has a really low growth time too so huge packs of austros can be a common sight around lakes.

It's quite sustainable and is the ultimate survivalist. It can and will thrive no matter where it lives. It's only disadvantage is it's small size, meaning you can't kill anything really with it unless you pack up, and even then you're not really taking down anything of noteworthy size. You're just a pest at best to something like a medium, but that's the tradeoff.

Suchomimus
A literal jack-of-all trades dinosaur that can live a terrestrial and an aquatic lifestyle but excels at neither. Has better underwater vision than the Austro, decent mobility on land, pretty bad stamina, but is quite strong vs other mediums. You're never safe from anything on land nor from anything in the water. If some deino your size moves in, you're fresh out of luck at this lake, but you can just leave for another lake or adapt a terrestrial lifestyle.

You're a pretty good generalist dinosaur, can hold your own vs mediums (except sub apexes) and can go fishing. This leaves the sucho with plenty of options and good backup plans incase the forest gets infested with flesh eaters or if a big scaly boi moves into your lake.

Spinosaurus
Spinosaurus trades land mobility for water mobility. It excels at swimming, doesn't lose stam while swimming, and can swim pretty fast. He can stay underwater for pretty lengthy periods of time (nothing crazy, just noticeably longer than sucho can). On land it's cumbersome and pretty slow, but can hold it's own against even an apex 1v1 (this is NOT preferable tho. While you can turn pretty well since you're really slow, it's still pretty risky to take on a terrestrial apex). So basically, on land, you're not exactly going to catch anything. Spino also gets a water ambush multiplier so you can chase things down at the water edge, but it's a short ambush and drains stam. Has really good underwater vision (not perfect but really good).

Otherwise, Spino can chill in the water not fearing anything but a 40+ foot Deinosuchus or a pack of apexes. But all this glory is at the expense of a really long growth time and quite a lackluster sub adult stage (you're a really bad sucho essentially and you can't hide that well).
You can't run but you can only swim around in lakes, that's your only saving grace. But the lakes hide deinosuchuses that will be at least your size and bigger as a sub, so life will be hard.

TlDr:

Deinosuchus: For those that can play the waiting game and let the prey come to them. Life's pretty good until 30 feet, after which you can bide your time but will have to hunt dinosaurs vs eating fish all the time.

Austroraptor: Perfect survivalist. Does everything pretty well except it's not threatening to anything else. You run from everything, but you can thrive anywhere. Generally kind of bad stamina so watch out. Otherwise you're small enough to hide too.

Sucho: For those who want to be big enough to hold their own vs most things but also want to take advantage of fish as a food source. Pretty good swimmers, can submerge, but always have to watch their backs.

Spino: If you make it to adult, you can chill and not be afraid of most things. You're pretty bad on land so a big body of water is most ideal for you. You can indefinitely stay afloat in the water so nothing on land can get you (you can also dive which puts them at a massive risk), and you can stay underwater for a good amount of time. But again, life's hard as sub so if you get here, you can play it pretty safe.

What do you guys think? Spino is coming no matter what, so I wanted to make it a bit more unique and incentivize water lifestyle more than land.

that spino wont happen because there gonan fulyl refamp the spino with new model H spino has swim animation tho but will get a small tweak spino wont get a swim animation till they desied to work on him and give him his new model

[Sable]

I agree with most of these points about the aquatics, except for the bit about a Deinosuchus being vulnerable on land. You would be surprised to see how formiddable crocs are on land, and how unbelievably fast they can be. They can snap and spin around much faster than most creatures can react, add that to their body armor that most animals simply cannot get through. Add this to that powerful, lashing tail made completely out of bone, heavy scales, and muscle, and you have an animal that's nearly invincible from all angles. Now scale that up to the size of a full grown Deinosuchus.

The tail would make for a good secondary attack while on land for the Deinosuchus, and in the water, maybe it's secondary could something like a death-roll.

[kekyoin]

Oh you're right @Ninja_.Weasel,
I forgot that crocs and alligators have really tough skin and are actually scary fast in short bursts.
And yea, perhaps something like a death roll attack would pretty much end the dinosaur in the water. Will update main post about the deinosuchus

[Rowsdower]

I generally agree with your post OP. Well done.
I can't wait for that Deinosuchus!

[Sable]

Yes. I especially agree with the bit about Austroraptor. Austro will likely be played similar to an otter. Quick, agile, can harass larger animals, but will retreat to the water in an instant. I do hope that Austro can still take down prey of at least similar size. I think that 2 Austros would be a fair fight for taking on a Galli, or do you guys think that's too much to ask?

[kekyoin]

As it stands, Galli curb stomps a lot of things (even an Allosaurus if it's being stupid), I'm not sure how Austro will be balanced when added but Galli can even maul a Dilo. But otherwise, if the Austros get a hit on the Galli, then sure that sounds pretty reasonable. It seems like a glass cannon now anyways, so I think it's pretty fair.

[Qubaal7890]

Originally posted by anti vax kid:

@Qubaal
The only problem I see is that we don't know what they're going to model the Spino after: scientifically accurate spino, JP3, or a mix of both (boy do the devs put JP into this game, utah is carbon copy JP raptor)

If it is like a JP spino, then what you said makes much, much more sense. It should be a terror of both water and land but not better than the Sucho. If it's scientifically accurate Spino, then having it excel at aquatic would be more ideal.

if it's a fusion then we do have some leeway.

With what all the devs said, I think it might be a fusion leaning towards more JP Spino influences if it's going to be a superpredator.

Seeing as how the previous incarnation of Spino was heavily JP3, I wouldnt be surprised if they just did JP again but also remake its model to look more like its hypo, which is the same treatment the other apexes remodels got.

That would only really change its sail shape to an M, slight model adjustments(scales and body form), and the arm to leg proportions. This supports new Spino is going to lean more towards being a super all-terrain predator than a heavily aquatic based organism, so my suggestion would hold more water when it comes to balancing spino against the other aquatics.

EDIT: Pun was unintentional I swear

[kekyoin]

Oh I see, that makes sense then. A long, long time ago there were actually going to be 2 spinos: Spino A (the JP inspired one we had before) and a Spino B (the scientifically accurate one).

Rip the dream now tho, I guess they're going with the terrestrial Spino.
I'll update the post with suggestions for the JP inspired Spino then