Giganotosaurus makes no sense

[Why Watt]

So we all know of this apex predator. It's massive and rivals Trex in it's stature, and in The Isle is a threatening dinosaur in it's own right.

However... the position of an "Apex Bleeder" in Survival makes like, no ♥♥♥♥ing sense?

Has ANYONE considered that?

Are we able to have a discussion as to why there is a plague of Trexes and scarcely any Gigas to be seen, instead we see a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of smaller bleeders like Allo, Carno and Dilo?

You give a dinosaur all the tools a tracker would need, great! It can deal some serious bleed on a prey item and keep following them until they are vulnerable, having dropped dead or sat down to try and survive, thus letting you kill them.

Except... being a bleeder and an apex is redundant. Consider how ♥♥♥♥ing useless that toolkit actually is? Just think for a moment.

Your prey items you can attack are all much smaller than you. You have among the best alt turns in the entire game, and are the 2nd tankiest dinosaur in Survival, behind Triceratops. You are so heavy and powerful that most of your prey dies in a handful of hits. They all will die. Allos, Suchos, Diablos, Carnos, Dilos, Paras, whatever it is, if you sink your teeth into their flesh, they are ♥♥♥♥ed. Therefore... why do you need your trot speed to track injured prey when they are dead seconds after you engage? Why need to tank the hits, you overpower them in seconds with raw damage? Nearly everything you attack is put on 3 bleed - if they live the hit - and so they are dead anyways, but your raw damage kinda removes the point of it.

Going for a Trex or Triceratops is an extremely risky attack and makes no sense for something that is supposed to be able to thrive solitary. A Trike will generally bleed you out before it bleeds out, and a Trex only needs the BB to seal your fate in most cases, and is faster... so not things you want to be dancing with. There's nothing else in Survival you need to bleed out. If you look at the possibility of Camarasaurus as a playable, that thing has absurd bleed resistance but absolutely NO bleed heal, like, it will bleed to death from even very mild bleed because that thing will just, not ever stop bleeding. So again, why would you need a lot of bleed if even slight bleed is lethal? A Trex could probably bleed out a Camarasaurus. That's how bad it's bleed heal is. All you need is enough tankiness to survive a little bit of trample, maybe a stomp or a tailwhip or two and it's going to bleed out if you are patient.

So everything that you would hunt is much smaller than you, and so you overpower it within seconds. Great... so therefore, the more viable option, if everything you hunt is smaller and more frail, is to do so as quickly as possible. So you wanna be fast and hit hard... which Trex just does better.

Trex's toolkit as an apex makes sense. Your an ambush hunter and once you bite your quarry, it's game over, you broke their leg and now they have an express ticket to the respawn menu. Your slow at travelling, which means you tend to have a hunting ground as your own 'space' you patrol. Your hunger lasts a while so you can afford to fail numerous hunts, due to your lack of stealth and dependence on very short bursts of speed.

Giga needs to compete with Trex and yet it's main♥♥♥♥♥♥is redundant, less effective; why make something keel over from bleed - giving them the chance to throw themselves off a cliff or into a lake or hell go all Kamikaze on you - when you can pin them down by breaking their leg? Why be an endurance 'tracker' when something you've bitten is going to drop dead very quickly anyways or is going to easily escape you due to having a sheer speed advantage?

What's the point of bleeding out your prey when your prey are all so much smaller than you? When I think of a bleeder I think of, well, biting off more than it can chew, honestly. Something suited to dart in, deal some bleed and back out. Something playing more like a Komodo Dragon, in a sense; Carno packs and Dilo packs capture this very nicely. You ♥♥♥♥ with big♥♥♥♥♥♥ You just do, and you need to be cautious and stall them out. I've seen Dilo packs kill anything in the game, if they are cautious about it.

The worse thing is... there is no way to make this gimmick work without making Giga even LESS viable than Trex. The only way to make the crazy bleed make any sense on an apex is to force them to rely on it to make their kills. So, that means♥♥♥♥♥♥base damage or♥♥♥♥♥♥base weight. Or it means making almost every dinosaur, except maybe other apexes, have absolutely GODLY bleed resistance, to where if a Giga bites an Allo or X other mid tier in an initial ambush, they probably run away and you need to track them down, hone in on your weakened prey for another shot. It's really messy.

And sure, I've also heard the "wait for sauropods" excuse. Yes, because in a game that does so much handholding with food being the "flesh grazer" is going to be so viable, exploiting one AI as an amazing food source is totally worth growing 6.5hrs / sarcasm.
Oh and especially when a Trex is gonna show up and absolutely ♥♥♥♥ up your day.

Just as a closing note, I'm not saying Giganotosaurus isn't viable. It is a solid choice if you are willing to watch paint dry as Subgiga for several hours. But Giga just does not make any sense.

[[Ravenous]]

I might be biased in this since I’m a sucker for an underdog, and usually end up going the opposite direction of most people, or it feels like that anyways, but imho the giga is the superior of the two.

It’s faster while trotting, slightly slower sprint but twice the amount of stamina, it regains stamina while trotting unlike the rex, and it can easily kill a rex in a one-on-one fight as long as you can get at them from any other direction than from the front.

Yeah, we’ll be getting larger prey like camara and AI Brachiosaurus to use our bleed on, but it’s already an incredibly self-sufficient lone-wolf kind of dinosaur for my particular playstyle atleast.

You can actually move around at a decent pace, unlike the rex, you can keep up with most mid-sized dinos for greater distances, unlike the rex, you can fight a pair of adult Utahs, unlike the rex, and the list goes on.

I personally can’t wait for AI Brachiosaurus (provided they actually fight back) and player Camaras, which will most likely be recieving a complete overhaul of stats and size before being added to Survival.

[nom]

I play a lot of giga and my biggest problem with giga is that you dont have anything fun to fight with. Rex destroys you and trike wins against you aswell so what are you supposed to fight against as an solo player?

Hunting smaller dinos is really boring cause one hit is enough anyway and with all the ai why should i waste my time hunting something thats not fun? So giga is in a really awkward spot right now cause he is either too strong or too weak for me.

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by Ravenous:

I might be biased in this since I’m a sucker for an underdog, and usually end up going the opposite direction of most people, or it feels like that anyways, but imho the giga is the superior of the two.

It’s faster while trotting, slightly slower sprint but twice the amount of stamina, it regains stamina while trotting unlike the rex, and it can easily kill a rex in a one-on-one fight as long as you can get at them from any other direction than from the front.

Yeah, we’ll be getting larger prey like camara and AI Brachiosaurus to use our bleed on, but it’s already an incredibly self-sufficient lone-wolf kind of dinosaur for my particular playstyle atleast.

You can actually move around at a decent pace, unlike the rex, you can keep up with most mid-sized dinos for greater distances, unlike the rex, you can fight a pair of adult Utahs, unlike the rex, and the list goes on.

I personally can’t wait for AI Brachiosaurus (provided they actually fight back) and player Camaras, which will most likely be recieving a complete overhaul of stats and size before being added to Survival.

You lost me at "pair of adult Utahs"

Official servers my guy.

Anyways, I'm not debating which is the objectively more viable pick. Endurance hunters in The Isle always have more success than ones dependent on ambush, there's a reason why Utah, Carno and Allo are very accessible dinosaurs, you don't need to be good to get the most out of them.

I share the same opinion that Giga is the more viable of the two. It can travel far better to find food and has that juicy crouch speed that lets you sneak around like a psychopath waiting to jump random pedestrians.

However it's moreso it being redundant as a bleeder. Being the HUNTER apex is a very good toolkit and one that makes sense. It's just well, your 50 base bleed is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pointless, being designed as a bleeder is pointless.

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by none:

I play a lot of giga and my biggest problem with giga is that you dont have anything fun to fight with. Rex destroys you and trike wins against you aswell so what are you supposed to fight against as an solo player?

Hunting smaller dinos is really boring cause one hit is enough anyway and with all the ai why should i waste my time hunting something thats not fun? So giga is in a really awkward spot right now cause he is either too strong or too weak for me.

Good point, I've not really ever thought of Giga from the angle of it not really having anything to really fight. You see a Trex and your smart bet is to leave, and you don't bother engage with a Trike in a 1v1. All the things you hunt are ♥♥♥♥♥♥ if you are successful and there's no 'tough' matchup.

All the mid tiers and small tiers have some rough fights that can go either way. Diablo vs Allo ; Utah vs Dilo ; Utah vs Carno ; Carno vs Allo ; Maia vs Carno ; Dilo vs Pachy, etc.
But Giga either loses or wins and there's no real wiggleroom.

[[Ravenous]]

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Originally posted by Ravenous:

I might be biased in this since I’m a sucker for an underdog, and usually end up going the opposite direction of most people, or it feels like that anyways, but imho the giga is the superior of the two.

It’s faster while trotting, slightly slower sprint but twice the amount of stamina, it regains stamina while trotting unlike the rex, and it can easily kill a rex in a one-on-one fight as long as you can get at them from any other direction than from the front.

Yeah, we’ll be getting larger prey like camara and AI Brachiosaurus to use our bleed on, but it’s already an incredibly self-sufficient lone-wolf kind of dinosaur for my particular playstyle atleast.

You can actually move around at a decent pace, unlike the rex, you can keep up with most mid-sized dinos for greater distances, unlike the rex, you can fight a pair of adult Utahs, unlike the rex, and the list goes on.

I personally can’t wait for AI Brachiosaurus (provided they actually fight back) and player Camaras, which will most likely be recieving a complete overhaul of stats and size before being added to Survival.

You lost me at "pair of adult Utahs"

Official servers my guy.

Anyways, I'm not debating which is the objectively more viable pick. Endurance hunters in The Isle always have more success than ones dependent on ambush, there's a reason why Utah, Carno and Allo are very accessible dinosaurs, you don't need to be good to get the most out of them.

I share the same opinion that Giga is the more viable of the two. It can travel far better to find food and has that juicy crouch speed that lets you sneak around like a psychopath waiting to jump random pedestrians.

However it's moreso it being redundant as a bleeder. Being the HUNTER apex is a very good toolkit and one that makes sense. It's just well, your 50 base bleed is pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ pointless, being designed as a bleeder is pointless.

Lost me at two adult Utahs?
Ok, to elaborate on that bit, Official EU2 a few weeks back, me and another Utah managed to completely decimate an adult Rex by simply outmanouvering him, even while alt-turning he didn’t stand a chance.
It took a looong time, but he went down, couldn’t fight us or run away, he was simply doomed the minute the other Utah decided to help me harass him for trying to lay siege to Utah Rock by himself XD

A good 10-15 minutes after this, a lone Giga shows up, likely hoping for some tasty Utah-drumsticks, and he proceded to rapidly kill me and the other guy who killed the rex and two more utahs that showed up inbetween the two fights.

My point was that with that sad turn-rate, I’m no longer afraid to get up close and personal with a solo rex if I know I can turn and move faster than them, but I will NEVER try to do that a Giga again Oo


At the moment, I think the Giga is best suited to ambushing overconfident rexes and mid-sized dinosaurs, but in the future it will likely be very well adapted to hunting sauropods as well with that bleed

[Why Watt]

That Trex... oh lawd. Works cannot describe... he could have logged or god forbid walked towards any sort of advantageous terrain.

Anyways yeah, don't try to meme on Gigas. I was with 25 Dilos once. We saw Trexes and swarmed them without a care. We saw a Giga and would be like, "pass" due to that Alt Turn

[[Ravenous]]

Originally posted by Why Watt:

That Trex... oh lawd. Works cannot describe... he could have logged or god forbid walked towards any sort of advantageous terrain.

Anyways yeah, don't try to meme on Gigas. I was with 25 Dilos once. We saw Trexes and swarmed them without a care. We saw a Giga and would be like, "pass" due to that Alt Turn

He actually did log out while I was chewing on his tail, but he made the mistake of logging straight back in again, must’ve been too flustered to remember which server the pissed off Utahs where on or something XD

[bigmoe808]

Honestly, if we're going off of youtube documentaries, I'm fine with giving Gigas the unique ability to feed off of live prey by biting pieces off. Something to eb their hunger, instead of completely filling them, though.

That way failure of a complete kill will allow them to move on.

[[Ravenous]]

Originally posted by Nice Killer:

As long as the rex has a 70% bone break chance it will always be OP. Rex goes in and breaks your leg, you can't leave, it can face tank anything in survival, kills you, lays down, presses escape, heals bleed with logout ready. WOW.

Highest heal in the game, most damage, only dino with bone break, highest damage, great speed, turning radius, amazing bleed resist, rex is broken.

People spam rex because it is literally OP. Unless a rex is completely outnumbered there is nothing that can kill one if it decides to face tank you. I've killed a sht ton of adult rex and been killed by them as well and they always face tank then log unless they are a noob.

I mean it does 1200N damage! Has 700 heal while resting! A ambush damn near a utahs base sprint!

Rex should have a 50% bone break chance not 70%. You say that and rex players go "Oh well sometimes I bite 3 times and don't get bone break so 70% is fine!" WITH NO BONE BREAK A REX IS STILL OP AND CAN STILL FACE TANK ANYTHING.

I ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate rex because people go "Oh GG's! I was the rex" like it takes skill to play a rex lol Yeah lot of skill to ambush in and put what ever dino it is under your chin then left click spam until it is dead. WOW! SO MUCH SKILL!

That's why that streamer GrimXD says rex players are 8yr olds because they just wanna play a dino that is literally broken and bully the server in a pack. Doesn't help that most solo rex hang close to spawn ponds afk killing juvies all day and logging whenever trouble shows lol

People will play whatever dino is broken like when giga had 850N bite force and could face tank a rex all of a sudden it was a giga plague. The majority of players wanna be the dino that takes no skill and can bully everything.

Might be old news to you, but it has been comfirmed several times in the past that the current bonebreaking mechanic in the game is going to recieve an overhaul along with locational damage, and when it’s ready for the live-servers it might be implemented on more dinosaurs than just the rex.

[Crulez]

I like that everytime someone complains about Giga vs. Rex, they tell the Giga, he is supposed to be a pack hunter, yet Rex and Giga both can form a pack of 5.

Right now i can hunt pretty much the same stuff as an Allo or Dilo as with Giga, just that Allo feels alot safer.

I would like to see Giga being toned down a good bit in power, raw dmg and maybe health, but make him possibly a bit faster or agile and reduce the grow time and make them be able to form a bigger pack than Rexes, like Rexes 3 and Gigas 4 or something like this, would also like to see Juvies to be included into that limit.

That way he actually would life up to be a pack hunter and you could actually have the bleeder playstyle because Giga wouldnt oneshot everything smaller than him and you could go even with other Apexes because of number advantage.

Right now i dont feel like Giga is worth the grow time at all even less so considering sub Giga is a walking buffet, cant run or defend.

[[Ravenous]]

@Nice Killer
That’s the hilarious thing tho, I’ve killed rexes as Utah, Cerato, Dilo and Giga, all within the last two months, and I’ve never had any real issue with it at all. Granted they were loners, but in what way is the Rex faster than a Giga? Ambushing Giga vs. Ambushing Rex has worked out in my Giga’s favour every single time, even as recently as yesterday Oo

The Rex’s ambush is fast, I’ll give it that, but it doesn’t last long enough for them to catch up to me, and the Giga can happily keep on sprinting for twice as long as the Rex can after their ambush wears off...They have to lay down to recover that wasted stamina and the Giga doesn’t.

Rex’s damage is insane, I’ll give it that too, but it’s so embarrasingly slow compared to any other carnivore as long as you have some sliver of situational awereness and you make them waste their ambush, they’ll never be able to catch you anyways.

Rexes are tanky, fine, but like I wrote up top, I’ve killed them with a duo of Utahs, solo Dilo, three ceratos taking turns and coordinating. It might take alittle while to kill them as anything other than a Giga or a Rex, but it’s very very far from impossible.
I bushwacked an adult Rex as a lone Giga the night before last, got in 3 bites on it from his rear, put some distance between us when he started his alt-turn, and then just prevented him from laying down and healing it off by being agressive...it took about a minute and a half from when I decided to press my W-key untill it was dead.

Rexes are only OP if there are groups of them, or if you let them get too close. I mostly just ignore them when i see them, because they can never catch up to me anyways since I never play Trike or Diablo.


This is just the humble opinion of a noob who clearly has no idea how OP the Rexes are in this game tho, so take this with a pinch of salt if needed... but I want to say that if you play to your dinosaur’s strengths instead of trying to facetank anything, and you maintain situational awereness, you’ll probably end up with the same impression I have of the current balance; it’s actually not too bad, atleast when it comes to the carnivores. A few little things here and there like the Cerato being outclassed in everything by the Allo, sure, but overall? Not really all that bad at all

After all, this is supposed to be a game that calls it’s best playables Apex, that means top of the food chain, and that in turn means that there is always going to be one king of the hill that is tougher and stronger than all the rest, and that king is the Tyrannosaurus Rex...until we get mercs with guns and psycho-mumbo-jumbo-cannibals...and strains...

[Człowiek Woda]

Originally posted by Ravenous:

@Nice Killer

Just ignore whatever Nice Killer has to say about T-rex since hes biased as hell and uses old info or straight out lies or misinforms people in his posts. He is well-known troll and is often banned here. His posts are filled with errors. Its basically conspiracy theory that for some reason devs rigged the game against Trike...


For OP. Giga either kill's something in 1 hit(like allo) or stands little chance (vs trike-rex) unless he gets a good ambush and few free bites. Rex heals bleed really badly so ther might be your window but it's small.

Trike bleed is insane and his attack speed and bleed resist make him no go as a target.
2 options that I see

-Decrease Rex bleed heal even more and nerf to the ground(Rex lvl or slightly better) Trike bleed dmg. This makes rexes very unlikely to sprint after Giga once they get hit and allows Gigas to go for hit and bleed tactics vs Trikes but still makes them dead if they try to face tank. No one cares if trike gets raw dmg buff then.

-Rework Giga and give him its own niche by making it something 100% different from what we have now


PS. I still stand for nerfing all 3 apex by a huge margin BTW.

[[Ravenous]]

Originally posted by Człowiek Woda:

Originally posted by Ravenous:

@Nice Killer

Just ignore whatever Nice Killer has to say about T-rex since hes biased as hell and uses old info or straight out lies or misinforms people in his posts. He is well-known troll and is often banned here. His posts are filled with errors. Its basically conspiracy theory that for some reason devs rigged the game against Trike...

Aaah, that explains it then XD

As for your suggestion to rework the Giga and make it fill it’s own niche...what niche would that be?

Rex is brute force due to the strength of it’s jaws and the biological design of it’s teeth (made for crushing and tearing rather than slicing like sharks and allos etc.)

Spino will presumably be specialized for a 50/50 land/water type lifestyle when fish are added, so it’ll probably be a jack of all trades king of none type of deal? Better in water than any landbased dino, but still inferior to deinosuchus?

Giga is a much more mobile and bleed-damage glass-cannon compared to the rex, but looking at the two species irl, they are very very similar in many ways, the biggest difference I can spot with my untrained eye is the skull and jaws. Size-wise they are pretty similar too, so shouldn’t they be pretty equal in terms of this game? The rex was assumed to live in plains and lightly forested areas whereas the Giga is assumed to have lived in marshlands and swampy areas, if memory serves. But that in and of itself doesn’t differentiate them enough for me to clearly imagine the Giga as anything other than rather similar to the Rex Oo

Do you have any suggestions for what to do to it? As long as it isn’t turned into a walking buffè for Rexes like before, I’m all ears :)

[rabbitman|bnuuy]

dude its a game where dinosaurs are brought back to life by humans and got loose and killed off the workers and is a dinosaur island why complain and think of stuff to critict on its a scifi dinosaur survival game what more could you want????

[Bill_Clinton_Supreme]

Originally posted by Nice Killer:

Originally posted by Ravenous:

Might be old news to you, but it has been comfirmed several times in the past that the current bonebreaking mechanic in the game is going to recieve an overhaul along with locational damage, and when it’s ready for the live-servers it might be implemented on more dinosaurs than just the rex.

I'll believe that when I see it. When ever something is added to survival that gives the rex a hard time or a change is made to the game that tips the scales the rex either gets buffed or whatever it is gets nerfed.

Even if they give other dinos bone break the chance will be stupid low and locational damage will probably give the rex another advantage like biting the head one shots the dino as a rex or something stupid like that. What ever they do or add to the game will either be nerfed to make rex OP or the rex will be buffed to counter it.

This whole game from what I've seen has been being changed around the rex.

Oh rex are bleeding to death after fighting trikes or dilos? Nerf bleed so it doesn't kill while resting.

Rex are starving? Buff hunger and add larger AI.

Trikes still giving the rex a hard time? Nerf their turn radius and increase rex speed so the trike can't ass ride one after an ambush.

Giga is faster than a rex? Buff rex speed.

Giga can face tank a rex? Nerf giga bite force.

People crying about grow times? Slightly reduce rex grow time.

Herds and packs of gigas killing rex? Limit all apex to 5 on official making a 5 man rex pack unstoppable.

Trike gore speed increased? Increase rex trot turning radius to easier ride their butt after a bone break.

Sub rex is pretty strong? Welllllllll give it a random ass bleed resist buff.

Rex rex rex rex rex rex rex rex rex rex rex. Idc what gets added or what is changed based on the track record I think what ever it is will be nerfed or the rex will be buffed to make it a "left click and done" for the rex. I bet Shants will get nerfed so damn hard their turn radius will probably take 5mins to do a 360 so a rex can just butt ride one to death.

As soon as anything comes into the game that gives rex a hard time all the rex players get in an uproar because they've been used to being able to face tank everything and then all of a sudden a patch comes out and rex is OP again.

A problem begins once on how rex isn't balanced toward everything, everything is balanced towards rex.