Spinosaurus ability

[Why Watt]

Here's a really simple one and it could probably get tossed in real quickly, unlike the other signature ones! Nothing really new needs to be coded in like any buffs or debuffs or damage multipliers or shenanigans.

Essentially, do the following three things:
First give Spinosaurus a huge stamina pool, albeit compensate by making the drain when sprinting high. This allows Spino to be in water for a long friggin time.

Second, make Spinosaurus not have that dropoff when you enter water; normally if you sprint in water as say a Utah you will stay at whatever speed you entered, for a time before you go to slow dog paddle. However Spinosaurus would not have this, so long as it stays swimming it doesn't slow down.

Third, make Spinosaurus able to press C when swimming, effectively making it enter a 'crouch' - thus building ambush. It's stamina drain in water would halt - but no regen either, and it would be immobile while doing this, kinda like when a crocodile just floats there. Then, you see your prey and sprint - exiting crouch- and because of the "Second" thing you are essentially going to surge out of the water at your prey... and we all know what Spino's ambush is like :D

[Dimitris]

why give it stamina when you can just make it have less stamina drain in water that would not cause any problems compair to giving it huge ass stamina and making it able to run down ♥♥♥♥

[Quir0]

Originally posted by Flishster:

Pretty sure at one time it was suggested Spino's abilities would be that it doesn't take stam swimming, and it can eat small gores to make it a bully. Obviously, the latter concept seems to have been modified and given to Cerato, but I don't see why it would even need to take stam to swim in the first place.

Actually the small gore eating would make sense, given it's rather thin mouth

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by dimi:

why give it stamina when you can just make it have less stamina drain in water that would not cause any problems compair to giving it huge ass stamina and making it able to run down ♥♥♥♥

Read.
"First give Spinosaurus a huge stamina pool, albeit compensate by making the drain when sprinting high. This allows Spino to be in water for a long friggin time."

Your question was already answered.

If you gave Spino 500 stamina, but made the drain 15/sec? It still only runs or 33 seconds lmfao.

There is a super simple reason why making it drain 'half' stamina in water, which btw would still not help it, and that's because the draining of stamina that happens when swimming is a mechanic related to water, not any specific dinosaur.

I specifically mentioned that my ideas for spino's ability would be very easy to implement. So naturally I wouldn't advocate for adding a feature where certain dinosaurs drain different amounts in water.

[naked jesus]

Spinosaurids aren't crocodiles and wouldn't ambush in the water, they'd fish out of the water. Mechanics for fish-eating dinosaurs like actually adding in fish and crocodiles will be completed eventually

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by OurEmpires:

Spinosaurids aren't crocodiles and wouldn't ambush in the water, they'd fish out of the water. Mechanics for fish-eating dinosaurs like actually adding in fish and crocodiles will be completed eventually

Except the Spino ingame is intended to be an apex killing machine, not the accurate fisher.

[Dimitris]

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Originally posted by dimi:

why give it stamina when you can just make it have less stamina drain in water that would not cause any problems compair to giving it huge ass stamina and making it able to run down ♥♥♥♥

Read.
"First give Spinosaurus a huge stamina pool, albeit compensate by making the drain when sprinting high. This allows Spino to be in water for a long friggin time."

Your question was already answered.

If you gave Spino 500 stamina, but made the drain 15/sec? It still only runs or 33 seconds lmfao.

There is a super simple reason why making it drain 'half' stamina in water, which btw would still not help it, and that's because the draining of stamina that happens when swimming is a mechanic related to water, not any specific dinosaur.

I specifically mentioned that my ideas for spino's ability would be very easy to implement. So naturally I wouldn't advocate for adding a feature where certain dinosaurs drain different amounts in water.

why do that instead of siply make his stamina drain slower when swiming which is more simple

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by dimi:

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Read.
"First give Spinosaurus a huge stamina pool, albeit compensate by making the drain when sprinting high. This allows Spino to be in water for a long friggin time."

Your question was already answered.

If you gave Spino 500 stamina, but made the drain 15/sec? It still only runs or 33 seconds lmfao.

There is a super simple reason why making it drain 'half' stamina in water, which btw would still not help it, and that's because the draining of stamina that happens when swimming is a mechanic related to water, not any specific dinosaur.

I specifically mentioned that my ideas for spino's ability would be very easy to implement. So naturally I wouldn't advocate for adding a feature where certain dinosaurs drain different amounts in water.

why do that instead of siply make his stamina drain slower when swiming which is more simple

LMFAO read boy.

Like, seriously, learn to read. It would do you wonders.

Making it drain less stamina when swimming would have to be handled... by changing, ok wait for it, THE WATER MECHANICS THEMSELVES. To have certain creatures be exceptions to the drain, which, if you didn't realize how many patches worked on the water mechanics, would be a total ♥♥♥♥♥ and a half to do and much more complicated instead of simpler as you seem to think it would be.

Compare that to changing TWO VALUES within the Spino BP. The drainrate when sprinting and how much stamina it has. Probably you'd have to buff the regen rate as well, so let's call that three shall we? That does not require any changes to the CORE water mechanics, which do not actually give a rats ass what dinosaur you are.

IN ADDITION, as I JUST said, making Spinosaurus drain half as much when swimming would not help it nearly as much as increasing the over all stamina pool it has. So what you are proposing, even if draining 50% less was what ends up done, would not help it swim substantially better. So what you are proposing be done is more complicated & less rewarding than what I am stating.

Likewise, making spino able to crouch in water to effectively sit still? Yeah, not super hard to do because it would be in the Spino's BP, not the entirety of the water mechanics. Essentially it would boil down to making Spino, when pressing C, enter an exception state to the water mechanics, entering a crouch.

[Dimitris]

omg do you know anythink at all
changing how much stamina it would drain for him is like changing how much stamina it drains when sprinting
what you are saying is
give it a heck ton of stamina and make it consume more when running
what im say is
instead of doing both those thinks
make it take less stamina when swimming nothink with water mechanics just one number to change

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by dimi:

omg do you know anythink at all
changing how much stamina it would drain for him is like changing how much stamina it drains when sprinting
what you are saying is
give it a heck ton of stamina and make it consume more when running
what im say is
instead of doing both those thinks
make it take less stamina when swimming nothink with water mechanics just one number to change

Dude, it's because the drain rates are a universal feature about water. Do you wish to know why?

Because the old dinosaurs, ones that have not been changed in months function, the exact same as the survival dinos. Do you see what that means? It means it has NOTHING to do with the specific BP.

I find it super funny you say "do you know anything at all" when you are the one displaying that you do not. It isn't a value in the Spino's BP that you can change, in regards to swimming draining stamina. It is part of the swimming mechanic.

So get this thru your head. The drain rate when swimming is not a value in the blueprint, that is, the entire makeup of stats in regarding a single asset, such as, a playable character like Spino, the data is not in there.

And I really, truly, do not see why you are arguing about this when essentially the difference would be changing 2 NUMBERS VS 1 if you were right on this. My statement would yield much, much more than halving a drain rate. Go into a sandbox server on any branch of the game, or hell, click that shiny 'host' button, choose Thenyaw & Sandbox and find some water as the Spino.
You can do that and you will see swimming at a slow dog paddle twice as long vs five times would be a huge difference.

[Dimitris]

what im saying is that
each dinosaur has a different rate they lose stamina when swimming
so instead of giving spino stamina and making him drain lots of it when running
change that stamina lose he has in water to minimum so it doesnt drain as much stamina
and my problem isnt that its 1 number instead of 2 others
if they increase its stamina and its stamina loss when running they will have to rebalance it again and thats the problem cause if it loses stamina too fast then it wont be able to move arround the map and other such
(i belive there is a possibility of spino not being added since sucho is getting a rework first)

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by dimi:

what im saying is that
each dinosaur has a different rate they lose stamina when swimming
so instead of giving spino stamina and making him drain lots of it when running
change that stamina lose he has in water to minimum so it doesnt drain as much stamina
and my problem isnt that its 1 number instead of 2 others
if they increase its stamina and its stamina loss when running they will have to rebalance it again and thats the problem cause if it loses stamina too fast then it wont be able to move arround the map and other such
(i belive there is a possibility of spino not being added since sucho is getting a rework first)

What I'm saying is that is not the case. Why can I say that comfortably?

Because the old dinos that have not even been touched in 6 months drain from swimming at a pretty constant amount, and none of the survival dinos drain any varied amount. So unless I see a dev come on here and say no, Why Watt, dimi is right and you are full of ♥♥♥♥, then I'll hold my understanding. I've not seen ANY evidence that ANY dinosaur has a varied drain rate when swimming.

Now, I used to have the chart with all the dinosaur stats pre-Survival, which is still accurate related to the current game for all non-survival dinos & excluding Camara. The only change that has been made to them is that they lost bonebreak, that or they weren't even tweaked: merely adding an exception to the bonebreak mechanic where only X dino can inflict it, X being T.rex of course.
In that chart it had Spino's stamina pool, its regen rate & drain rate which also gave the amount of time it could remain sprinting.

It would be trivial to look at that number and say right, let's increase stamina pool but increase stamina drain & regen proportionally so it lasts the exact same time it currently does. I might test this in a moment, if I don't get sidetracked, by using a stopwatch to see how long a Spinosaurus can sprint by hopping into the test map. But the issue of rebalancing the values isn't one that actually exists.

[Dimitris]

the reason i say dinosaurs have different stamina drain when swimming is from testing i did
but you could argue that we dont know the stamina of the creatures in game right now so i can agree with you in that part
it seemed in the testing they took different ammounts since juvies could swim longer time in % than other dinosaurs in % again
sorry i cnat really explain it much better if you have the time test it too

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by dimi:

the reason i say dinosaurs have different stamina drain when swimming is from testing i did
but you could argue that we dont know the stamina of the creatures in game right now so i can agree with you in that part
it seemed in the testing they took different ammounts since juvies could swim longer time in % than other dinosaurs in % again
sorry i cnat really explain it much better if you have the time test it too

Sure I can test it, in 5hrs when my dev branch download is done XD

I DID just test Spinosaurus tho. It runs precicely 30 seconds before going on empty.

So when I said 500stam 15/sec drain that yielded 33 seconds, now that means if Spinosaurus had 450 stamina w/ 15 stam/second drain then it would last the exact same time it currently does. Alternatively, with 300 stamina & 10/stam second drain sprinting also yields 30 seconds.

[Dimitris]

fair enough
but how can you tell how much stamina does a creature in survival have we dont know how much they have

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by dimi:

fair enough
but how can you tell how much stamina does a creature in survival have we dont know how much they have

Well, we know that certain values have not been changed.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/399204370614583306/452277939761840129/Work_in_progress.png

For all dinosaurs except Oro, Taco, Cama, Dibble, Maia, Trike, Gally, Dryo, Allo, Carno, Utah, Rex, Giga, Cera & Dilo these are still accurate, if you exclude bonebreak. Obviously, this also means Alberto & Parasaur values are unknown because their data wasn't ever really compiled.

As I said I just tested spino myself before checking the chart, I had no real idea how long it could last sprinting. And yet there we see: Spinosaurus has 120 stamina & drains 4/second.

So in order to see which of us is actually right, I could host a Thenyaw sandbox, spawn in Spino and find a lake he can swim in. See how long he lasts, then I test with Suchomimus who has the exact same Stamina (120) but lasts 60 seconds: if Sucho lasts longer than Spino, that would mean your depletion when swimming = depletion when running, which would sink my idea harshly. If they last same time, that means it is based off your stamina pool, in which case a larger stamina pool = better swimmer, meaning I'm right.
However, the way to determine if their is a mystery stat in regards to swimming is to find two dinosaurs with the same run time over-all & stamina pool.
The test dummies for that would be Avaceratops & Herrerasaurus. If they achieve ANY result that is not the same? That means YOU win, because there is a value there, that is not universal, and is not based on stamina pool or stamina drain.

Should I be wrong, I'll be the first to congratulate you. I have integrity I aim to uphold.