Dilophosaurus, Troodon, Venomous X: The Effects of Venom

[The Engineer]

Been a while since I done a thread, but I decided, ♥♥♥♥ it. Why not? People who read my ♥♥♥♥, you all know the drill. Only comment if you have a worthwhile opinion. State the logic behind your opinion. Explain it in detail.

I initially wasn't going to do a thread on this, but since I heard that this was a concept still up in the air, I decided to offer my take on it.

Overview

Thanks to Watt's thread, we now know that we are getting three venomous playables. We know what two of those three are going to be, but we don't know what the effects of their venom will be beyond being an extremely useful tool for tracking bitten prey. The two animals we know are supposed to be venomous: Dilophosaurus and Troodon.

Types of Venom

Cytotoxic
Probably one of the more gruesome types of venom, cytotoxic venom is typically centralized around the site of an inflicted bite, and causes extreme swelling and severe tissue damage, eating away skin and flesh. It's a typically slower-acting venom, but is no less dangerous as it can result in loss of limb function, the limb itself, and death. Survivors can be left severely crippled depending on the location of the bite.

Neurotoxic
A more dangerous type of venom due to how fast-acting it usually is, neurotoxic venom attacks the nervous system and brain, blocking signals from the brain to the rest of the body. This results in loss of vision, drowsiness, reduction in movement and coordination, and then paralysis which can lead to suffocation, and eventually death.

Hemotoxic
A venom that one could argue is already possessed by Dilophosaurus, hemotoxic venom prevents blood from clotting and causes extreme bleeding from not only the bite wound, but also from orfices such as any already-existing cuts, mouth, nose, and sometimes eyes, while also causing tissue damage and organ failure, which can then lead to death.

Venom In The Game

This being a game, we have the benefit of being a little more imaginative. We can make up effects to associate with venoms, or even take away certain effects for both balancing purposes and make them a little more interesting.

Dilophosaurus

As mentioned before, it can be argued that Dilophosaurus already possesses hemotoxic venom. Its bite inflicts some nasty bleed. However, this isn't satisfactory for most people, and I'm in agreement. But rather than completely and totally change how the Dilophosaur's bite works, I'm propose that we simply modifiy it.

We tone down the amount of bleed that occurs from a bite, however, still leave it at a signficant amount. The new bleed system is said to affect stamina until a dinosaur collapses and dies, however, it's likely that bleed will still be quite easy to heal, but, seeing as how a Dilophosaurus' bite isn't just a normal bite, but one laced with hemotoxic venom, I propose that such a bite be much longer-lasting and take much more time to heal.

For example. A raptor's bite inflicts a low level of bleed, that animals of similar or larger size can heal from relatively easily. But, a Dilophosaurus' bite, which inflicts a relatively similar level of bleed, does not heal, and stays with the bitten victim for much longer periods of time.

Secondary effects are open for debate.


Troodon
It's obvious that this one is an 'inspiration' of the Jurassic Park nightmare that is the Troodon. In the JP franchises and lore, Troodon is considered to be even more terrifying than the infamous spotlight raptors, something that the raptors themselves were well aware of, and actively steered clear of the smaller insidious freaks. For those who don't know, the Jurassic Park Troodon is a small, venomous, nocturnal predator with a rather sinister twist to its behavior.

It's a parasite. In the lore, Troodons would burrow into larger prey's bodies and devour them from within, as well as paralyze a victim, rip them open in a manner that keeps them alive, and lay their eggs inside the body, and when the young hatch, they feast... all while the victim is still alive.

Now, obviously, we can't have a parasitic Troodon... we have to be at least somewhat original. For this venomous freak, I would propose it having the neurotoxic venom type.

In the game, Troodon's bite could result in rapid loss of muscle function. A bitten victim could become sluggish, their movement speed and turn rate would be drastically reduced. However, the venom itself wouldn't kill a victim.

No, what I have in mind is my own twist of the recently spoiled mechanic of Dine-N-Dash, where a scavenger can strip a piece of meat from a corpse while running and take off with it.

For Troodon, instead of only ripping meat from corpses, it would rip meat from its still-living victims, whose ability to defend themselves is severely impaired by the effects of the venom, resulting in a long, slow, and painful death of being eaten alive.


Venomous X
This is the third, unknown venomous playable. Considering that Dilophosaurus would utilize hemotoxic venom and induce bleed that is nearly permanent, and Troodon would utilize neurotoxic venom and induce loss of muscle function, we are then left with cytotoxic venom.

This one is tricky, as in the game, cytotoxic venom would generally result in a crippled victim, or otherwise, a victim that has lost significant amount of capability to defend itself. This is similar to neurotoxic venom, however, cytotoxins wouldn't work nearly as fast, and depends significantly more on locational damage.

For example, Venomous X inflicts a bite on a victim's leg. The victim flees, but the venom is already injected. The cytotoxins would gradually do more and more tissue damage around the bite, eroding the flesh of the bitten leg until the victim is crippled similarly to how it would be with a broken leg. Venomous X can then track the victim down, and finish it off for good.

Think of it to be similar to how a komodo dragon hunts buffalo. A komodo will never outright overpower a buffalo, but it only needs a single bite to the leg. The buffalo will flee, but the venom will erode the flesh of the buffalo's bitten leg. The wound gets infected, further weakening the buffalo to the point that the next time the komodo catches up to it, it's unable to properly fight back, and the reptile will then be able to kill it with ease.

*Cytotoxins are still up for debate on secondary effects*

If you think about it, the desicion to have three venomous playables is actually a stroke of genius by the developers, even if accidental, as there are three types of venom we can base the in-game effects on.

So, instead of having three venomous playables whose only differences would have been their sizes, we can have three venomous playables who have both different venom effects among them, and different methods of hunting and utilizing that venom, while keeping the common factor of venom being an extremely potent tracking tool.

[bigmoe808]

For the removing a vision for troodon, imagine either a fog appearing on the dinosaurs screen.

That or having their nightvision turn on and upping thing brightness.

That or just a diet version of turning the game to night for the victim while leaving them with a smaller nv range.

[The Engineer]

I'm actually considering scrapping hallucinations for Dilo and instead, swapping the vision impairment of Tro's venom to Dilo's.

While hemotoxic venom doesn't directly result in impaired vision like neurotoxins, the extreme bleeding that comes from hemotoxins would result in darkened vision anyway.

One reason I'm considering scrapping hallucinations is because of a point someone brought up in the discord is performance issues and implementation difficulty. The other is because hemotoxins are doing their job, Dilo could ultimately stay as is, and simply gain its tracking ability.

The idea is that the three venoms act at different speeds and therefore result in different hunting methods.

Troodon's neurotoxins would take effect the fastest.
Dilo's hemotoxins, as they are now, are moderately fast.
X's cytotoxins would take the longest to have their effect.

Troodon is the venomous predator that is there to get ♥♥♥♥ done. It goes in, quickly gets enough bites depending on the size of the prey, and the moment the effects start, it's dinner time, and the victim isn't even dead yet.

Dilo would generally play a little more of a waiting game, but still stay in close vicinity to the target so it can continue apply venom when able, and unlike Troodon, has to wait for the victim to die.

X is the ultimate venomous tracker. Initially, the victim will escape, but eventually, the cytotoxins will erode a bitten leg, and the victim will be crippled. All X has to do is track down via venom scent, and finish the job.

[G6]

My guess is that it'll probably be the same effect for all venom-dinos... Like super easy to track bitten prey + great stamina depletion....

[The Engineer]

Originally posted by G6:

My guess is that it'll probably be the same effect for all venom-dinos... Like super easy to track bitten prey + great stamina depletion....

Yeah, that's why this thread exists. So that we don't just get the same thing 3 times over.

[Hole Diver]

why are you writing all of this like seriously...just wait for an official announcement.

[MultiDavid]

Ninja, I want to add that Dondi said Dilo might be able to smell prey it attacked.

[rustyOkin]

Originally posted by Redguard Freeman:

why are you writing all of this like seriously...just wait for an official announcement.

He is tossing around ideas, maybe something the devs might pick up as well! Something that works yet is easy to develop and makes the gameplay unique so why the hell not?

I really like the Troodon idea!
A flashing screen or blurred vision while the little Trodoons slowly bite their prey into pieces would be really cool.
Not sure if reducing movement is also necessary though, I can imagine Troodons will be pretty fast and agile anyway

Dilo is a bit tricky... Its hunting technique (no halucinations - because of the obvious performance issues, just hunting and tracking down) certainly works but is not nearly as interesting as troodon's. Also Dilo is already pretty fast with a lot of stamina so escaping it would be very difficult anyway which would also make the whole tracking-ability kinda pointless

As for venomous x, we don't know what it is or how big/strong it is so coming up with a hunting technique for it is pretty difficult

[The Engineer]

Originally posted by MultiDavid:

Ninja, I want to add that Dondi said Dilo might be able to smell prey it attacked.

Yeah, I noted that in the beginning of the post.

Originally posted by Redguard Freeman:

why are you writing all of this like seriously...just wait for an official announcement.

Wait for an official announcement that could be months away. Sure. Let's not use the forum for what it was made for. Brilliant. In the meantime, let's instead encourage and focus on "Recode when?" posts. Even said here if you don't have a worthwhile opinion, don't bother commenting. I do this to get ideas going. Problem with it or otherwise nothing to contribute? Don't read and leave.

Originally posted by Rusty:

He is tossing around ideas, maybe something the devs might pick up as well! Something that works yet is easy to develop and makes the gameplay unique so why the hell not?

I really like the Troodon idea!
A flashing screen or blurred vision while the little Trodoons slowly bite their prey into pieces would be really cool.
Not sure if reducing movement is also necessary though, I can imagine Troodons will be pretty fast and agile anyway

Dilo is a bit tricky... Its hunting technique (no halucinations - because of the obvious performance issues, just hunting and tracking down) certainly works but is not nearly as interesting as troodon's. Also Dilo is already pretty fast with a lot of stamina so escaping it would be very difficult anyway which would also make the whole tracking-ability kinda pointless

As for venomous x, we don't know what it is or how big/strong it is so coming up with a hunting technique for it is pretty difficult

Reducing movement is for the fact that Troodons are tiny fragile little bastards that would probably get one shot by an Austro. I don't think Troodons, no matter how large a pack, will ever be going for Allos or other big slow dinos. That's more Dilo's area.

Not that I think being so frail is an issue. It's a good trade-off for having venom.

Troodons will likely focus on bigger, but not too much bigger, dinos, like Pachy, Utah, Galli. Animals that are pretty fast themselves. Venom's not gonna count for much if a raptor can do 180° in the blink of an eye and delete Troodon.

I agree with the point of Dilo. There's no running from a Dilo unless its a Carno. That's the only scenario where tracking is useful. Hence why I brought up hallucinations, but I'm thinking to scrap that bit altogether, possibly swap it for vision loss instead.

I would assume Venomous X is a larger animal, given that Troodon is small and Dilo is sorta small. I've seen some people in the discord suggest a Megalania could be it, or Monolophosaurus.

There was one madlad who said Acro could be the third venomous playable.

[Kami]

I do like these ideas, except I have one small nitpick: who says Venomous X is a carnivore? Venom is frequently used in the animal kingdom not just for hunting but for defense. A venomous herbivore would diversify the faction and not give carnivores yet another area where they are more interesting in. Of course knowing the devs its likely that it'll be carnivorous, but a herbivorous venom-user is still something to consider and might make for an interesting playstyle.

[The Engineer]

Originally posted by Zoinks but festive:

I do like these ideas, except I have one small nitpick: who says Venomous X is a carnivore? Venom is frequently used in the animal kingdom not just for hunting but for defense. A venomous herbivore would diversify the faction and not give carnivores yet another area where they are more interesting in. Of course knowing the devs its likely that it'll be carnivorous, but a herbivorous venom-user is still something to consider and might make for an interesting playstyle.

Herbivores don't get to be cool in this game, Zoinks. :P

In all seriousness, the chances of a venomous herbivore are next to nothing. Not just for the fact of the bias towards carnivores, but because there's not really an herbivore that this would suit.

I agree it would be a nice twist though.

[rustyOkin]

Originally posted by Zoinks but festive:

I do like these ideas, except I have one small nitpick: who says Venomous X is a carnivore? Venom is frequently used in the animal kingdom not just for hunting but for defense. A venomous herbivore would diversify the faction and not give carnivores yet another area where they are more interesting in. Of course knowing the devs its likely that it'll be carnivorous, but a herbivorous venom-user is still something to consider and might make for an interesting playstyle.

Hmm good point actually

Ok if Troodon is that small movement reduce makes sense.

I think the hunt down & tracking venom would suit a bigger/slower (or maybe just with less stamina) carnivore much better than Dilo.
If Dilo is sort of the "mid-tier" of venomous dinos then maybe some other traits in addition to a more or less "standard" poison might work.

[Kami]

Originally posted by Ninja_.Weasel:

Originally posted by Zoinks but festive:

I do like these ideas, except I have one small nitpick: who says Venomous X is a carnivore? Venom is frequently used in the animal kingdom not just for hunting but for defense. A venomous herbivore would diversify the faction and not give carnivores yet another area where they are more interesting in. Of course knowing the devs its likely that it'll be carnivorous, but a herbivorous venom-user is still something to consider and might make for an interesting playstyle.

Herbivores don't get to be cool in this game, Zoinks. :P

In all seriousness, the chances of a venomous herbivore are next to nothing. Not just for the fact of the bias towards carnivores, but because there's not really an herbivore that this would suit.

I agree it would be a nice twist though.

well, we're getting 12 new playables that we don't really know yet, not to mention Hypsilophodon could easily work considering its small size. [although i find it more likely that'll just be an omni that focuses on plants] i do think that we would have herbis that would work, but... yeah, the bias means that we're very unlikely to get a herbi with that kind of mechanic.

[bigmoe808]

Originally posted by Redguard Freeman:

why are you writing all of this like seriously...just wait for an official announcement.

Because the threads or more than just guesses.

We're trying to speculate on what would make the game good.

For now, we're organizing our collective thoughts. Come venom update/full on expansion, we'll compare and contrast what we expect and what we get.

[The Engineer]

Originally posted by Rusty:

Hmm good point actually

Ok if Troodon is that small movement reduce makes sense.

I think the hunt down & tracking venom would suit a bigger/slower (or maybe just with less stamina) carnivore much better than Dilo.
If Dilo is sort of the "mid-tier" of venomous dinos then maybe some other traits in addition to a more or less "standard" poison might work.

Yeah, Troodon is smaller than a Dryo, but bigger than a Velo. To have a pack of them be capable of bringing down something bigger than a Pachy would make it insanely OP, venom or not. Troodon should absolutely be a nightmare, but to the faster moving animals.

If Dilo does become the sort of middle spot of venomous animals, then it should focus on Pachy, Utah, and Galli when alone, Allos, Maias, Ceratos, in a pack.

And then there's Venomous X. I still think it'll be the biggest of the three, but slowest with the slowest-acting venom (cytotoxic).

Originally posted by Zoinks but festive:

well, we're getting 12 new playables that we don't really know yet, not to mention Hypsilophodon could easily work considering its small size. [although i find it more likely that'll just be an omni that focuses on plants] i do think that we would have herbis that would work, but... yeah, the bias means that we're very unlikely to get a herbi with that kind of mechanic.

Hypsil is definitely an herbivore. Venomous X is unknown as stated by Dondi, where as Hypsil is... known.

I find it kind of odd how there is one unknown omnivore. An entire faction to fill out, yet, they've only got one? Added to the fact that so far, they've shut down suggestions for Deinocheirus and Citipati/smaller oviraptorids, as in the best possible candidates for having a full diverse faction?

[Kami]

Originally posted by Ninja_.Weasel:

Originally posted by Zoinks but festive:

well, we're getting 12 new playables that we don't really know yet, not to mention Hypsilophodon could easily work considering its small size. [although i find it more likely that'll just be an omni that focuses on plants] i do think that we would have herbis that would work, but... yeah, the bias means that we're very unlikely to get a herbi with that kind of mechanic.

Hypsil is definitely an herbivore. Venomous X is unknown as stated by Dondi, where as Hypsil is... known.

I find it kind of odd how there is one unknown omnivore. An entire faction to fill out, yet, they've only got one? Added to the fact that so far, they've shut down suggestions for Deinocheirus and Citipati/smaller oviraptorids, as in the best possible candidates for having a full diverse faction?

true, but then again we could always take it as meaning that we know what the venom user is, we just don't know it has venom. could easily mean we don't even know the dinosaur yet, but thats a potential way to look at it.

i highly doubt that omnis are going to be as large a faction as herbis or carnis if they only have one currently thought up of/revealed. around 5 possibly, but more then 10, no chance.