Male and female - what's the difference?

[aSinglePringle]

Besides a few differences in appearence and the ability to make nests, what's the difference between male and female dinosaurs?

[Why Watt]

Nothing

[aSinglePringle]

oh okay lol

[Forge Master]

They should create some differences then. Males should be biological tougher, but maybe biologically slower than the female part. Females could have more stamina than the males, but the males don't drain their food and water as fast?

We have to stop pretending that biology is the same across the board. Generally, males and females of anything have biological differences. There are of course, exceptions to the rule, but its not the norm.

[Why Watt]

Originally posted by Forgewolf:

They should create some differences then. Males should be biological tougher, but maybe biologically slower than the female part. Females could have more stamina than the males, but the males don't drain their food and water as fast?

We have to stop pretending that biology is the same across the board. Generally, males and females of anything have biological differences. There are of course, exceptions to the rule, but its not the norm.

Except those ratios aren't for a large swathe of animals, most importantly, aves & reptiles.

I'm all down for people being clear-eyed about basic facts, such as sexual dimorphism being inconsequential.

But trying to apply fixed rulings for The Isle's dinosaurs would be tricky to say the least. We can't determine, a lot of the time, what gender certain members of a fossil species were, and often man y species have like no remains? We have a single Carnotaurus specimen, ever, and two Ankylosauurs. So trying to say "yeah lets cause some pretty significant stat fluctuations" would be a bad idea.

I would say starting with drain / recovery rates would be best. Females typically drain less food and water than males due to lower metabolisms, this is true for many mammals and reptiles alike so it's the safest bet. However you could make females have over all lower hunger & thirst pools. So they cannot 'stock up' on as much food as males can.

You could increase health regen of males, given they tend to engage in conflict more often when fighting over mates & having all that excess adrenaline due to testosterone screaming to your amygdala to go gun-ho, but have males with reduced stamina regen.

But manipulating base stats is a bad direction because it is hard to make it accurate. Here's a silly example you mention: tougher but slower. Female animals have to be hardier than males, because they get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ - literally - a biologically taxing process that often leaves them with bodily harm + having to gestate eggs / foetus & deliver those things. In additional to the extra internal baggae to perform these biological capabilities you'd have to go with them being hardy and slow.

And yet, many animals have massive sexual dimorphism which invalidates this. The size between a male African Elephant and a female is tremendous, so even if the male has to be less tough it also outweights the female massively.

If you meant tough as strong, and not hardy ( as in more damage but being slower), you do realize being stronger by consequence makes you faster right?

Anywhom, if you direct swing about with stats, based on the dinosaur a certain sex will be less viable to play Vs another. If say, female Ceratos are faster and frailer, pure hypothetical BS example, than they will be able to offset the major flaw of Cerato: its very low speed so any increase would be invaluable, and still maintain enough power to do their job effectively. Even if it means the female would LOSE to a male Cerato, the females would be crawling out of the woodwork because they can hunt more prey items.

Regen rates are the way to go IMO because they are not major 'viability' factors rather playstyle ones. If you are someone who liks to just go reckless, well, if males regen health faster but deplete stamina faster as well, that's a very fair trade off for YOU. Meanwhile if someone likes to be able to worry less about sustaining their creature and go out exploring areas that might not be ideal hunting grounds, than going as female fits with their playstyle.

However if those players throw down, things could go either way as they reasonably should. It won't matter that you could heal from the fight faster if the female kills you, and it wont matter if she can subsist on your corpse for a long ass time if you kill her.

[SlamJambert]

They've decided to not do stat or size differences between genders due to the fact that players would just pick whichever is better/bigger. Differences would also functionally double the amount of animals they'd have to balance.

[mbiggiani]

Para is supposedly going to become sexually dimorphic in the future but don't hold your breath its not a priority.

[Forge Master]

Originally posted by Why Watt:

Originally posted by Forgewolf:

They should create some differences then. Males should be biological tougher, but maybe biologically slower than the female part. Females could have more stamina than the males, but the males don't drain their food and water as fast?

We have to stop pretending that biology is the same across the board. Generally, males and females of anything have biological differences. There are of course, exceptions to the rule, but its not the norm.

Except those ratios aren't for a large swathe of animals, most importantly, aves & reptiles.

I'm all down for people being clear-eyed about basic facts, such as sexual dimorphism being inconsequential.

But trying to apply fixed rulings for The Isle's dinosaurs would be tricky to say the least. We can't determine, a lot of the time, what gender certain members of a fossil species were, and often man y species have like no remains? We have a single Carnotaurus specimen, ever, and two Ankylosauurs. So trying to say "yeah lets cause some pretty significant stat fluctuations" would be a bad idea.

I would say starting with drain / recovery rates would be best. Females typically drain less food and water than males due to lower metabolisms, this is true for many mammals and reptiles alike so it's the safest bet. However you could make females have over all lower hunger & thirst pools. So they cannot 'stock up' on as much food as males can.

You could increase health regen of males, given they tend to engage in conflict more often when fighting over mates & having all that excess adrenaline due to testosterone screaming to your amygdala to go gun-ho, but have males with reduced stamina regen.

But manipulating base stats is a bad direction because it is hard to make it accurate. Here's a silly example you mention: tougher but slower. Female animals have to be hardier than males, because they get ♥♥♥♥♥♥ - literally - a biologically taxing process that often leaves them with bodily harm + having to gestate eggs / foetus & deliver those things. In additional to the extra internal baggae to perform these biological capabilities you'd have to go with them being hardy and slow.

And yet, many animals have massive sexual dimorphism which invalidates this. The size between a male African Elephant and a female is tremendous, so even if the male has to be less tough it also outweights the female massively.

If you meant tough as strong, and not hardy ( as in more damage but being slower), you do realize being stronger by consequence makes you faster right?

Anywhom, if you direct swing about with stats, based on the dinosaur a certain sex will be less viable to play Vs another. If say, female Ceratos are faster and frailer, pure hypothetical BS example, than they will be able to offset the major flaw of Cerato: its very low speed so any increase would be invaluable, and still maintain enough power to do their job effectively. Even if it means the female would LOSE to a male Cerato, the females would be crawling out of the woodwork because they can hunt more prey items.

Regen rates are the way to go IMO because they are not major 'viability' factors rather playstyle ones. If you are someone who liks to just go reckless, well, if males regen health faster but deplete stamina faster as well, that's a very fair trade off for YOU. Meanwhile if someone likes to be able to worry less about sustaining their creature and go out exploring areas that might not be ideal hunting grounds, than going as female fits with their playstyle.

However if those players throw down, things could go either way as they reasonably should. It won't matter that you could heal from the fight faster if the female kills you, and it wont matter if she can subsist on your corpse for a long ass time if you kill her.

I meant tougher as an example, us human males having thicker skin than our female counter parts. It's why we are less sensitive to physical pain when we get cuts and it takes more for us to bleed out than females, even if only by a little. I would imagine that same kind of fact, could be applied universally to most living things on this planet, including dinosaurs?

So males stamina would last longer, but store less, while females store more, but last less.. Those kind of things.

[Why Watt]

@Forgewolf - I don't think debating on human biology is the best thing when talking about game balance. While females are more sensitive to pain they are also more tolerant to it. Thats an adaptation in no way related to skin, but nerves. Why? Knowing when you are about to enter a helpless state - childbirth - for hours on end? Thats called a good ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evolutionary incentive to be sensitive towards your own body. And being tolerant to higher levels of pain? Yeah, if a biologically male person was somehow able to give birth, even if they had all the right gear and anomtomical proportions? We'd actually die of a heart attack.

So the thickness of the hide isnt relevant, a couple of milimetres dont make an actual difference when vital-organs are not involved. Woman hurt themselves easier because hand-eye coordination is inferior in females, so they are mildly more clumsy.

Your example for stats is pretty bad, because it is a pure advantage for males?

Having a small stamina pool but high duration = very quick recharge and low depletion
Having a large stamina pool but a low duration = very slow recharge and high depletion.

There is no advantage to having a large stamina pool if you have a consequently high drain except when it comes to swimming, because drain is a fixed 2 per second.

As others mentioned, the big problem is you would be balancing twice as many playable dinosaurs. Changing regeneration rates is doable, but the moment you go into any stats you hit a wall.

[WT Meth Addicted Gooner]

Originally posted by Why Watt:

@Forgewolf - I don't think debating on human biology is the best thing when talking about game balance. While females are more sensitive to pain they are also more tolerant to it. Thats an adaptation in no way related to skin, but nerves. Why? Knowing when you are about to enter a helpless state - childbirth - for hours on end? Thats called a good ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evolutionary incentive to be sensitive towards your own body. And being tolerant to higher levels of pain? Yeah, if a biologically male person was somehow able to give birth, even if they had all the right gear and anomtomical proportions? We'd actually die of a heart attack.

So the thickness of the hide isnt relevant, a couple of milimetres dont make an actual difference when vital-organs are not involved. Woman hurt themselves easier because hand-eye coordination is inferior in females, so they are mildly more clumsy.

Your example for stats is pretty bad, because it is a pure advantage for males?

Having a small stamina pool but high duration = very quick recharge and low depletion
Having a large stamina pool but a low duration = very slow recharge and high depletion.

There is no advantage to having a large stamina pool if you have a consequently high drain except when it comes to swimming, because drain is a fixed 2 per second.

As others mentioned, the big problem is you would be balancing twice as many playable dinosaurs. Changing regeneration rates is doable, but the moment you go into any stats you hit a wall.

how bout we all just settle down and have a mountain dew

[Punchpacket]

Originally posted by Surden Texan Yoden Ballen:

Originally posted by Why Watt:

@Forgewolf - I don't think debating on human biology is the best thing when talking about game balance. While females are more sensitive to pain they are also more tolerant to it. Thats an adaptation in no way related to skin, but nerves. Why? Knowing when you are about to enter a helpless state - childbirth - for hours on end? Thats called a good ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ evolutionary incentive to be sensitive towards your own body. And being tolerant to higher levels of pain? Yeah, if a biologically male person was somehow able to give birth, even if they had all the right gear and anomtomical proportions? We'd actually die of a heart attack.

So the thickness of the hide isnt relevant, a couple of milimetres dont make an actual difference when vital-organs are not involved. Woman hurt themselves easier because hand-eye coordination is inferior in females, so they are mildly more clumsy.

Your example for stats is pretty bad, because it is a pure advantage for males?

Having a small stamina pool but high duration = very quick recharge and low depletion
Having a large stamina pool but a low duration = very slow recharge and high depletion.

There is no advantage to having a large stamina pool if you have a consequently high drain except when it comes to swimming, because drain is a fixed 2 per second.

As others mentioned, the big problem is you would be balancing twice as many playable dinosaurs. Changing regeneration rates is doable, but the moment you go into any stats you hit a wall.

how bout we all just settle down and have a mountain dew

Please check the date of a thread before posting, this dates back to August.. A long dead discussion. Locked as per necroposting rules.