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Though I could understand why they would do it get rid of herbivores and apexes. It is a quick easy fix for a lot of gameplay problems the game has isn't it? Despite the fact they would be completely destroying the most amazing thing about this game and what made it so popular in the first place...
While that would be unfortunate I wouldn't be too sad since the creatures I cared enouph about to spend 5+ or so hours of my time growing up too be in survival probably won't be in survival anyway. XD
Nobody considers that Dondi might be implementing a gameplay mechanic that makes it so that herbivores actually do something other than AFK in a bush while growing. Because that right there is quite literally why herbivores are a problem. You just gotta wait and see instead of jumping to conclusions.
Oh, right. Change it so you only grow when moving.
Tee-hee.
Nah. If he was going to fix herbivores you realize that is all he'd have to do, and no controversy would stem from him saying that? "Oh yeah, we realized that there is a really easy way to fix herbivore growth and that is making them only grow while moving. Not when resting or standing. Makes it so they arent just watching netflix while growing their Trike"
No, his giggling made things quite easy to perceive.
Honestly, I don't go afk when growing any of my herbs. Yes i hide in bushes all the time when growing to decrease my chances of being spotted. But there's reasons for that.
Infact, I've seen carnivore's camping just as much as herbivores. It's not one sided. I've seen carnivore's, Spam roaring to lure in ai, so they can camp and eat. Yes it's risky with how noisy they are. But they still do the same thing, by sitting around growing.
The issues with herbivore's is that, Unlike carnivore's, Their juvie and sub stages are a pain in the backside.
When your a juvie herb. The majority of them are still quite large and slow. Making escaping something difficult. And then hiding your fat butt even more difficult.
That doesn't change with age. You'd think when you reach sub adult stage that you'd at least be able to put up a fight...Wrong. Even sub trike is fodder. You struggle to hide because of your mass. And when you do get cornered it's pretty much a death sentence. That's several Hours down the drain because for some reason, An animal that big apparently, can't do ♥♥♥♥ to save itself from death. Unlike sub rex who actually can put up a fight. Even if it dies, it might even take it's target down with it. sadly sub trike doesn't. I'm not saying sub trike's should be able to take on large apexes etc. I'm saying they should at least be able to hold their own to small and medium carnivores.
While they're carnivore counterparts can hide in pretty much every stage.
The only herbs that can hide effectively are dryo, galli and maia.
I begin my attack. My friends are chatting and I'm like "Hold on guys, you've almost made it to me, perfect timing i'm just almost done serving dinner for us all. Get this, a SUB TRIKE was walking in a field." I hadn't even bitten it yet and they were already like "great job bringing home the bacon"
So obviously when I start making moves it takes the offensive. And I tire it out a little. Get in a bite, back off and it kept trying to chase me into the corner of a mountain, which was fine, take some bleed. It runs off into the forest after I toyed with it a little having only gotten 2 or so bites. It stands over a bush trying to buy a moment to log out, I dont really have any space to go at its tail. I got another hit or two in and its hurting bad. But I take a step back, click growth and walk into its face and bite it once. Its dead.
My friends walk out from the bushes, and I heal off the damage from the direct hit as a fresh prog adult Dilo in no time flat, dont even bother lying down. I just start eating, they start clicking growth.
How many maps have they made and then scrapped? Let's see, there's the original mesa which was scrapped and replaced with the second mesa, which was entirely different geometry-wise and also thrown out. Then there was region 1, a fan favorite back in the day when sandbox was the main staple of the game. That was scrapped, both were replaced with region 2. Then region 2 was scrapped and replaced with v3. Then v3 was replaced with v4. Then region 2 got an overhaul and came back for a while, then got scrapped AGAIN, taken out entirely and replaced with region 2 redwoods (which had no geometric similarity to region 2 itself, mind you). Then we had AE-001, and then that got replaced with Thenyaw, followed by a map /called/ v3 that's just an updated AE-001.
They added those maps to the workshop, sure, but those never worked, even when they were first added. Why? Not to mention the screenshot for mesa is a blatant lie and shows v1 mesa when in fact we got v2 mesa uploaded, no sign of the original. Updated region 2 hasn't been added either as far as I can tell, and mod support as a whole is borked (for now, which is understandable).
I just don't get why they have to remove entire maps from the game. Are they outdated? Compared to the newer maps, yeah. Is that grounds for yanking them out completely despite players still wanting to use them? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion.
Not to mention you have to factor in the costs of making the maps-- why do maps keep getting made, scrapped, and made again? Why not pick a map and stick with it? At this rate I doubt v3 or thenyaw will be sticking around or will make it to full release.
End of the day the potential for the isle is looking more and more bleak everyday.
And then to make up for that you add in say, making poisons, runes & enchantments as a core feature, and adding 100 varieties of each... when the game did not advertize any of that at the time people purchased it.
Doesn't that seem silly?
Well the Isle is exactly like that. Its big sales pitch which lured in a lot of people is hey, I can play as this dinosaur. The sheer variety of good to amazing quality dinosaurs and how it did not have artificial limits, players who run servers could make realism ones where people are essentially doing massive amount of roleplay AS dinosaurs. Games where you are a human dealing with dinosaurs? Dozens on steam, some of pretty good quality and others are overfunded behemoths like Ark. Does the Isle, a game that lacks pretty much any conveniences in it, wanna tussle with a game that is entirely about improving how convenient your experience is as you progress?
Saruian has the Isle beat in terms of hype, support, finnancial backing and can draw in the realism fanatics by the swarms.
The Isle has its niche yet Dondi refuses to see that he found the goldmine but he is trying to start a coal mine next to it.
The number of people who really, reaaally do not care for the human side, the strain side is truly immense. Many are just indifferent to those aspects, so long as they don't detract from what they care about. If the Game has had the money to toss away so many different maps and models, consider that it is BECAUSE people like what they see, not what they may see one day?
People claiming the game would not be hurt by the removal of herbivores need to realize the game would be hurt even less by the removal of Mercenaries. Tribals seem very original in this game, being they are 'semi human', so their removal might an issue. But people aren't going to cry off 'Mr Press F to pay respects' not showing up for duty on the Island.
The game is losing sight of what drew in people.
Well, I could see those unused dinosaur models returning as DLC skins after the final game's been out for at least a few weeks or so. Having so many models & sounds not seeing the light of day would be an enormous waste of money, so it wouldn't surprise me if they do plan on monetizing them eventually as either DLC or unlockable skins for both AI and/or playable dinosaurs.
But regarding the main topic - if herbivores and/or apexes are truly being removed, then I drop support of this game. Simple as that. I can understand their reasoning for removing a handful of dinosaurs due to the fact that they would either be impossible to balance from a pvp perspective (Pue, Shant ) or they can't offer their own unique gimmicks to make them stand out from the competition (Bary, Ava, Taco, etc) but removing an entire faction of dinosaurs? Removing apexes? Especially when both offer so much potential from a gameplay, modding, playerbase, cosmetic and monetization perspective? Then yes, that's going to cause a huge uproar and rightfully so. Like everyone else has already said, the game garnered most of its funding and its strong playerbase from people who're tired of playing generic human survival games, and want to play as something entirely different and nonhuman for a change. I think Dondi's smart enough to realize that cutting out herbivores and apexes from official servers would be financial suicide - for the moment being, at least. Then again, the guy's pretty ruthless & unpredictable and it honestly wouldn't surprise me if he does remove them from official servers in the long run - especially once humans and tribals have been implemented in (to replace the inevitabley lost dinosaur playerbase that's been supporting his game since day 1, with the newfound human & tribal playerbase, which will certainly be larger.)
Maybe this explains why the recent Q&A stream left a sour taste in my mouth, despite all of the awesome upcoming ♥♥♥♥ that was shown. And while it did indeed look awesome, it still left me with some very uneasy, worrying feelings in my gut, that:
A: Maybe Dondi really doesn't care about playable non-humanoid aspects of the game. He's just doing what needs to be done to satisfy the game's current playerbase, for the time being.
B: This game is looking and sounding more and more like an Ark 2: Electric Boogaloo - Gritty AAA Horror Edition. Yes, you will get to play as (some?) of the dinosaurs... hopefully. Yes, tribals do sound awesome, and their progression system sounds extremely unique and unlike anything else I've seen in a survival game. But at the core of it all, the end-game still seems like it'll be comprised of the following: PVP tribes constantly fighting each other for bases, resources and crazy over-the top science abominations, with the better team of grinders and dino-tamers completely overtaking entire servers as their reward. And that's only fun and tolerable for so long.
I don't know, I still have very high hopes for this game; development has been better than ever this year and the game's really been picking up on progress within the last 6 months - but I'll still drop it if he shafts his core suppporters and playerbase like that.
I think I (and hopefully, others too,) would be okay with this, as long as he still manages to advetise that apexes and herbivores are playable on specified servers on the steam front page rather than not bothering to advertise them at all. If he didn't, then he'd be missing out on even more opportunities to attract that dino-player or nonhuman player fringe-market.
I'd also be fine with it if he's willing to give them some dev attention for post-release game updates and bug patches and the like - rather than just leaving them to rot indefinitely, where their only "updates" will be at the mercy of modders... Now the dinosaurs should never get as much dev attention as humans or tribals if that ends up being the case, but as long as they aren't completely shafted by his dev team, and that said dev team realizes that the nonhuman playerbases still need to be catered to from time to time - official or not - then I won't have any major issues with it. It'll still be discouraging but it's better than being completely ignored and forgotten about.
As for taking out herbivores & carnivores = signifying the death of the game. I agree that would be the case... for current state that the game's in. But later on? Hmm, I don't know.
My main concern is that he'll screw over dinosaur players and his day-1 consumer base AFTER he's implemented humans, cannibals and proper AI - even if it's something he had no intention of doing in the first place. Hence my statement "replacing the old playerbase with a new, larger playerbase" in my previous post. But then again I get the impression that Dondi's not the kind of guy who would willingly screw over his original supporters like that. Yeah he can be brutal and condescending to the community, but at the end of the day he still seems like an honest guy who wants to keep to his word as long as he has the means and resources to do it. If herbivores and apexes do end up getting the boot, then it'll be due to legitimate dev team limitations and budget restraints - not because "he felt like it" or "he gave up" or whatever most people like to assume.
...but even then, I'll still drop the game. Because the feeling of betrayal will still sting... a lot (especially when playable dinos have been the game's focal point since its inception) and it'll leave me with the impression that the devs are biting off way more than they can chew. Because most Steam greenlight fiascoes have taught people the following: over-ambitious devs = another early access survival game trapped in indefinite development hell.
I remember so many times where Dondi would advertise these new ideas he was planning to get to that we literally never saw, he just gave up on them. This game was originally advertised as progression, so many people say progression wasn't planned to be official and they're WRONG. Sandbox was the only placeholder game mode, progression was actually planned to be the end game and Dondi gave up on it. Don't get me wrong, I like survival better than progression but progression could have been made to work just as well. That's only one example of the projects that were given up on halfway through, or even not even begun. Region-specific food patches that only certain herbivores could feed from? Where did that go. Down the drain with v4.
Saurian and Beasts of Bermuda are both younger than The Isle but with more content, it's ridiculous. I love this game has so much potential but like, we've been patient and what do we have to show for it. Some unreleased hypos, broken humans and a couple new dinosaurs. Woo.
And don't forget the maps that are twice as difficult to run but no more fun to play in.
So true. I remember once being attacked by 3 Rex when I was a trike and somehow miraculously emerged the badly scarred victor. It was honestly one of the most thrilling moments I had "in game".
Ikr. I remember the time when herbs were fodder back on region 2. Most had received nerfs that made them easily killed. That everywhere you went carnivores would team up and hunt herbivore's For sport because there wasn't much of a risk of death for them.
Well i was a trike with a small herd and we were followed by a group of Rexes. This rex came at me, and me being a pro at butt riding in the past, used that to my advantage. Because if i took the rex Head on, i'd die. So i tanked the first hit. Got my leg smashed. And rode his ass to death. He died, i survived. He was SO salty that this Nerfed to the ground trike killed him that he kept coming back with his group. And guess what. He targetted me over and over again. I killed him roughly 3 times. Before we all escaped into the forest.
It was funny but scary at the same time. Playing herbivore on this game, was actually the most fun i ever had on this game.
https://youtu.be/BaBgZ04CqDo